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6595Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta

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  • etznab18
    Jan 10, 2013
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      Of course their are genetic similarities between twins. However, there was mention - according to a study - that genes, not upbringing had influence on a number of things. Another study suggested that "even one's political leanings are largely shaped by genes (not by 'free will,' or choice.)"

      OK? Got the picture now? Combine that with the first paragraph of Harold's article and with the other paragraphs that mentioned free will, illusion and influence of genes.

      My impression from the article was that genes were considered to have great influence upon people's behaviors, even moreso than upbringing, or life's experiences.

      Now, I've seen studies where twins grow up in different environments where one gets cancer and the other doesn't. Also, I think there is a lot of "dark space" about the physiology of genes (just like there is a lot of "dark space" in the universe ... the majority, some think.) Genes, IMO, don't matter so much as whether the genes are "turned on" or not. There are lots and lots of genes (or DNA) that remain inactive I think, what they call junk DNA, and my guess is that life experiences and upbringing DO have an effect on shaping individual character. Even with identical twins.

      The idea that genes have such a great influence on behavior is just relative to any number of other things, IMO.

      I had to wonder, was Harold speaking about Eugenics? or something similar?

      Consider the following:

      Doubts on genetic mutation triggered by inheritance

      "The first major challenge to conventional eugenics based upon genetic inheritance was made in 1915 by Thomas Hunt Morgan, who demonstrated the event of genetic mutation occurring outside of inheritance involving the discovery of the hatching of a fruit fly with white eyes from a family and ancestry of the red-eyed Drosophila melanogaster species of fruit fly.[36] Morgan claimed that this demonstrated that major genetic changes occurred outside of inheritance and that the concept of eugenics based upon genetic inheritance was, to some extent, not completely scientifically accurate.[36]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#Doubts_on_genetic_mutation_triggered_by_inheritance

      "A gene is a molecular unit of heredity of a living organism. It is a name given to some stretches of DNA and RNA that code for a polypeptide or for an RNA chain that has a function in the organism. [... .]"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genes#Changing_concept

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
      >
      > Hello I AM and All,
      > Actually Klemp did cite some
      > studies and I Googled it myself
      > and saw that there is proof that
      > identical twins share similarities.
      > The mirrored behaviors could
      > be genetical with brain frequencies
      > and brain function being the
      > same due to a quantum mechanical
      > influence. I threw that last one
      > in on my own, but who knows?
      >
      > I'm surprised that Klemp didn't
      > use the EK "Time-Twin" or a
      > Twin Soul concept. But, he did
      > use the Lords of Karma ruse
      > which, BTW, is not solely owned
      > by Eckankar.
      >
      > Yes, Klemp uses Bait and Switch
      > to get new members by promising
      > "Self-Mastery" and "Spiritual
      > Liberation" but then he switches
      > it up and demands (suggests)
      > Mahanta Codependency and Sales
      > Team participation in order to,
      > possibly, get promoted and receive
      > "Spiritual Rewards."
      >
      > It is funny that Klemp claims to
      > take "Free Will" away from Souls
      > who join Eckankar and follow him.
      > Does this mean that those Souls
      > who aren't chained to Klemp, do,
      > have Free Will? It sounds like it!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > iam999freedom wrote:
      > Hi Prometheus,
      > Having a background in psychology I can say that the chances are highly
      > improbable that two identical twins seperated at birth would have the same type
      > of dog with the same name, etc. Studies have shown that the environment has
      > perhaps an equally important effect on an individual's personality as genetics
      > do and twins will undoubtedly have different characters after interaction with
      > the environment.
      >
      > As far as the Lords of Karma selecting a body with the appropriate genes for
      > each student, what role does Soul or Spirit have in all of this? Are Souls
      > merely dress up dolls with no free choice?
      >
      > According to HK it's always about trusting the Mahanta's guidance to make the
      > right choices in life. When decision go awry it's because the Mahanta wasn't
      > listened to. When choices go right it's "glorify the Mahanta time".
      >
      > What about reason, intuition, following your joy, love, passion, bliss, etc.
      > Whatever happened to an individual with sincerity, devotion, free will, and love
      > etc., uniquely connecting with Spirit/God though meditation, contemplation, or
      > prayer without an intermediary? Sounds like maturity and reality.
      >
      > I AM
      >
      > prometheus_973" wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello I Am,
      > > Okay, let me give it
      > > a shot and use some
      > > excerpts etc.
      > >
      > > HK's talking about
      > > psychological studies
      > > using identical twins
      > > (not conjoined) that
      > > were separated soon
      > > after birth. They grew
      > > up elsewhere and had
      > > different influences
      > > but dressed the same
      > > and had the same type
      > > of dog and gave the
      > > dog the same name etc.,
      > > etc.
      > >
      > > Thus, it seems that
      > > Free Will relies upon
      > > genetics (nature) more
      > > than it does upon nurture,
      > > although, HK says that
      > > Yogi Berra stated that
      > > "in theory, practice doesn't
      > > matter; in practice, it does."
      > >
      > > BTW- According to Klemp
      > > "The Lords of Karma have
      > > selected a body with the
      > > appropriate genes for each
      > > student."
      > >
      > > However, HK has somewhat
      > > contradicted what is in CH.
      > > 3 of the Shariyat. It states
      > > that "the spiritual workers
      > > created man and placed
      > > within him a living imperishable
      > > Spirit, called Soul."
      > >
      > > There is no other mention
      > > of these "spiritual workers."
      > >
      > > Anywho-
      > >
      > > HK is so clever the way
      > > he'll twist a quote to add
      > > even more confusion to
      > > his message of absolute
      > > servitude and obedience.
      > >
      > > I counted HK using "But"
      > > four times. In an old H.I.
      > > Letter he said never to
      > > use "But" with one another
      > > and that it was a nail in
      > > the coffin of invention and
      > > took away from what was
      > > previously said.
      > >
      > > HK:
      > > "BUT they dug in their heels
      > > at the finding that such twins'
      > > IQs were nearly as similar as
      > > their heights."
      > >
      > > "The hamster's destiny is firmly
      > > set. A kind owner may let it out
      > > into the room on occasion. BUT
      > > it is still in a house."
      > >
      > > "Researchers, too, can advance
      > > only to a fixed point in their studies
      > > of what elements make up a whole
      > > individual. BUT they do not have
      > > a magical key to the spiritual self.
      > > The Mahanta, the LEM holds that."
      > >
      > > Funny that Klemp states that he
      > > holds "a magical key" to control
      > > others like a Black Magician would.
      > >
      > > "The Mahanta alone can help people
      > > out of the mire of illusions. BUT they
      > > must have the right kind and amount
      > > of daily experiences."
      > >
      > > I'm taking it that EKists must be Vahanas
      > > and FREE WILL volunteers on Klemp's
      > > Mahanta Sales Team in order to have
      > > the "right kind and amount of daily
      > > experiences."
      > >
      > > Yes, Klemp like most religionists
      > > doesn't like science and psychologists
      > > since getting locked up in an asylum
      > > and having to "play-the-game" to
      > > be released early.
      > >
      > > HK states that "Real free will rests
      > > entirely on trusting the Master's
      > > prompts [signs?] as to which of
      > > many choices to make in all things
      > > human and divine."
      > >
      > > In other words do as I say not
      > > as I do and there is no such
      > > thing as Free Will for ECKists.
      > > Does that kind sound like Cult
      > > think? Klemp is getting nuttier
      > > and scarier! HK goes on to say
      > > that "He gives suggestions" and
      > > "seldom does he issue directives...
      > > True Free Will of an individual
      > > stands upon the Mahanta's
      > > guidance."
      > >
      > > Klemp, now, looks into the mirror
      > > as he speaks from experience:
      > > "Master Magicians turn subjects'
      > > ingrained ideas about patterns
      > > against them. A subject thinks
      > > he has the quick mind and eyes
      > > to catch a Magician in an act,
      > > even while he is being unburdened
      > > of watch, glasses, wallet, and keys.
      > > That is the ever so sly kind of ruse
      > > played upon people by illusion."
      > >
      > > "Again, keep in-touch with the
      > > Mahanta [me]. Do your spiritual
      > > exercises," but write those snail-
      > > mail IROs so I'll know what you're
      > > thinking and so I can use those
      > > stories for my next book.
      > >
      > >
      > > iam999freedom wrote:
      > > Hi Prometheus,
      > >
      > > On Dec 24 Etznab wrote, "Now, on the other hand, when Harold Klemp wrote about
      > > "free will" and genes in the December 2012 Wisdom Note I had to say to myself:
      > > "It looks to me like Harold has lost it!"
      > >
      > > Btw, I read that Wisdom Note just before bed. In the morning when I
      > > turned on the TV there was a news blurb about conjoined twins that had
      > > been successfully separated. Then they went on to describe the twins
      > > and how they were NOT the same and that (in so many words) one had a
      > > different character than the other."
      > >
      > > I asked Etznab if he could send a summary to ESA of the article in the Wisdom
      > > Note so I could try and tie in HK's quote with what Etznab saw the next
      > morning on TV about conjoined twins. (above)
      > >
      > > I still have yet to receive a response.
      > >
      > > I was wondering if you could share what could have been in the Dec. Mystic
      > Note that relates to the quote above about the conjoined twins.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > I AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus_wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The December 2012
      > > > Eckankar Mystic World
      > > > in the Ask the Master
      > > > section are two interesting
      > > > questions and answers.
      > > >
      > > > The first question has
      > > > to do with Stress and
      > > > how to overcome it.
      > > >
      > > > HK's answer is wishy-
      > > > washy at best. He says
      > > > that stress is "very
      > > > uncomfortable... Yet
      > > > stress is a good teacher."
      > > >
      > > > Klemp goes on to say
      > > > that people increase
      > > > their tolerance to stress
      > > > by eating healthy, getting
      > > > enough sleep, and by
      > > > "Reducing our overuse
      > > > of electronic devices."
      > > >
      > > > In other words it seems
      > > > Klemp is saying, in a
      > > > roundabout way, to use
      > > > moderation. After all,
      > > > he's saying to reduce
      > > > "overuse."
      > > >
      > > > Then, again, how does
      > > > a EK staffer at the ESC
      > > > not use their computer
      > > > 8 hours a day?
      > > >
      > > > The next question involves
      > > > reincarnation. This guy's
      > > > wife gave birth to a baby
      > > > boy and two days later his
      > > > mother translated (died).
      > > > He indirectly asked if this
      > > > new baby was his mother.
      > > >
      > > > Instead of giving this EKist
      > > > a direct answer, Klemp,
      > > > the wishy-washy Mahanta
      > > > says, "Yes, it is quite possible.
      > > > When it comes to rebirth,
      > > > anything at all can happen...
      > > > Whichever Soul is now your
      > > > son, everything is in accord
      > > > with what is best for all around."
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > >
      >
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