6591Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta
- Jan 9, 2013Hi I am,It is not that I feel tolerant of the sociopath but it seems inevitable that we deal with them. I do believe they are those who haven't learned much yet. So I feel like the best we can do is keep them from harming us as much as possible and let them go on their way. Thanks for your comments.
--- On Tue, 1/8/13, iam999freedom <iam999freedom@...> wrote:
From: iam999freedom <iam999freedom@...>
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta
Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 6:38 AMThanks Prometheus for writing challenging angles to view life from. And regardless of our origins it still seems to come down to finding and sharing meaning, purpose, love, care etc. in our lives.
Wow Janice your heart-felt expression of love for life and tolerance for the sociopathically insane really touched me. I have a lot of learning to get to the point that you expressed....very inspirational amd appreciated.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
> Thank you Prometheus, I enjoyed your writing very much.Â The way I see it when the bad guys do bad things and the sociopaths use it for their purposes, there are always the good guys who step forth and do the right things.Â We talked a lot about that school shooting recently and I believe that is a happening that stunned us all.Â The senselessness of what happened is not something a loving heart can even begin to understand.Â But there where people there who gave their lives to protect helpless children.Â There were people from all over the country who helped in anyway they could.Â That town came together to support each other in an amazing way.Â Shared grief does appear to make a lighter burden for the individual.Â So for me, I think there is a kind of balance of good and evil even if it is the evil we hear the most about.Â We hear so much of the bad it is hard to keep believing in the good.Â But when people are hurt, there are always others
> who come forward and do what they can to give comfort and love.Â It doesn't take the pain away but it shows those who are hurting that there is still love in the world and noÂ number of atrocities can destroy that willingness to help others.Â Maybe part of growing is learning to discern the motives of others and learning not to be taken in by sociopaths.Â Maybe part of what we are here to do is to love against all odds when the media blasts us everyday with horrible stories and tells us how close we are to being blown away by foreign threats.Â Maybe what we are learning is that a loving heart is a strong heart while those who usually do these horrible things are afraid and broken inside.Â Maybe those sociopaths aren't the strongest either since it takes so much energy just maintaining their facades that they don't really see the precious things in life like those loving relationships you mentioned.Â After all, most of them are so busy hiding their
> true selves they are obviously cowards.Â They don't live life, they hide from life while trying to grab all they can for themselves.Â You got to admit that life is full of smoke and mirrors and the real gems in life may not sparkle like diamonds but do give off a quiet beauty that only those with the knowledge to appreciate them can even see them.Â So I guess those sociopaths have a lot of learning to do and a lot of growing to do before they can ever even start to see a glint of beauty in life itself.Â When you love, your heart can break but can you really say the love wasn't worth it?Â I would rather know my heart will hurt than not to feel anything for others at all.Â Strong loving hearts will mend but those shattered beings who harm and use others haven't even begun the journey.Â Loving hearts can and will share the pain.Â Eckankar doesn't do anything for anyone but eckankar.Â So what does that say about the lem and the other leaders of
> eckankar?Â I'd say those they use are closer to perfection than they can even see.Â Bless all the loving eckist tonight.Â
> --- On Mon, 1/7/13, prometheus_973 wrote:
> From: prometheus_973
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 8:35 PM
> Hello I Am, Non, and All,
> I'm not so sure that humans
> will ever become like, God,
> our imagined or possible
> creator. And, if at all, certainly
> not in any lifetime soon.
> But, it could be that the
> universe(s) just happened
> and that the remnants of
> other life forms were spread
> to this planet, and others,
> via space rubble... from
> destroyed civilizations
> and planets. Or, was it an
> intentional seeding by an
> advanced race... which was,
> itself, seeded by another
> advanced race etc.
> Maybe the "spiritual"
> experiences we have
> are the result of
> interaction with the
> quantum mechanical
> Anyway, it seems to me
> that what really matters
> are relationships. It's our
> relationships with others,
> even strangers, that matter
> most. This is how we really
> learn and grow. Loving
> relationships are valuable.
> Klemp, and others like
> him, are: liars; posers;
> have arrested development;
> are sociopathic; narcissistic;
> and are even psychopathic.
> They are incapable of learning,
> or caring about others (are
> unloving) and attempt to
> impede social progress and
> justice. They use the rest of
> us for their own personal
> greed and selfish desires.
> Then, again, this strife and
> uncertainly (stress) that is
> created can make life interesting
> and a challenge, although,
> it can/will also be physically
> and emotionally painful.
> But, having a regular life
> without additional commitments
> and involvements can also
> offer rewarding experiences
> and insights. We are never
> all that alone. However, I'm
> not sure how peace of any
> sort (except in one's own mind)
> will ever happen in a world
> controlled by sociopaths.
> One must care about everyone
> and have caring relationships
> with people in order for humankind
> to advance and survive. To me,
> this is the "spiritual" key to life.
> I almost included animals, too,
> but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
> include "caring" about them (all)
> How can one really "care" about
> the sociopaths and psychopaths
> except to keep them away from
> nice, loving and kind (normal?)
> When one thinks about it the
> definition of what's "normal"
> keeps changing. The extroverts
> seem to be more pathological
> than the introverts don't you
> agree? Yet, the extroverts try
> to force us introverts to become
> extroverted. Why is that? Misery
> loves company I suppose or is
> it that an army of glassy-eyed
> introverts acting, as if, extroverted
> is more intimidating.
> In any case the idea of a "God"
> to worship and viewed as being
> "involved" in our lives detracts
> from "us" being involved in our
> lives because of the differences
> we see in one another. This is
> why there are so many different
> religious dogmas of what's right
> and wrong.
> Therefore, the differences in the
> way in which "God" is worshipped,
> for me, shows that "God" does not
> exist. We don't want to be alone
> nor take responsibility for our own
> actions. Thus, we blame God or
> use God as our scape goat.
> There are major flaws with all
> of these religions and the so-called
> "source" of their scriptures. It's
> all hearsay and the only thing
> that, supposedly, gives them
> validation is that these various
> people in history/myth that the
> scribes wrote about are claimed
> to have said or done some nice,
> inspirational, brave, or insightful
> things a very long time ago. Age/
> time (being ancient) seems to
> have given them credibility, because
> it is believed and taught that
> only Divine Intercession could
> have been the source for their
> Divine Inspiration.
> But, IMO, there are many people,
> today, who are not even followers
> of these dogmas that are as, or
> more: honest; brave; insightful;
> inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
> than the prophets, saints, and founders
> of these major and minor religions.
> Many of these people inspired
> others by never giving up in time
> of conflict because, sometimes,
> there weren't many other choices.
> Even those who did give up and
> had bad things befall them, still,
> maintained their faith and this
> fact turned them into "prophets"
> or saints. If this is the standard
> for religions there are an awful
> lot of believers and faithful, today,
> that just as deluded and desperate.
> iam999freedom" wrote:
> Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
> with unconditional love for the
> master and you get a submissive
> control pattern as your reward.
> Buyer beware!
> Prometheus, you wrote:
> "All of this, it seems, is simply
> an experiment to see if we
> are all capable of evolving
> into our "spiritual" potential.
> Are we to become more than
> merely a divine thought?
> Maybe there is something
> more to that piece of a mirror
> I've often wondered about the "mirror analogy". That is, Soul is like a
> shattered piece of a mirror that God wants back to complete itself again.
> I not sure this will happen because would not the end result of that be
> stagnation setting in? I think the show must go on. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting
> the end result of the mirror analagy.
> I like your summary of the big picture being "simply an experiment to
> see if we are all capable of evolving into our "spiritual" potential."
> I remember in school our teacher talking about something being in a static
> or peaceful state then being knocked out of that equillibrium by another event.
> Some chaos would result before returning to equillibrium. An example is a person
> has a job they enjoy then are let go because of downsizing and are dazed and
> lost until they find a new job. On and on in our life we are constantly moving
> from equillibrium to unrest and back. I would like to think our life has more
> meaning than being in a pinball machine.
> Perhaps God wants us to evolve our spiritual potential. When we unfold
> spiritually (which includes meeting challenges and being creative in this
> lifetime)we start fulfilling our spiritual potential. The freedom of expressions
> and experiences that await us upon death and perhaps "life after life", if
> needed, is beyond our human imagination and are ever expanding. God
> would take great joy in us meeting our spiritual maturity as the experiment
> It created is life expresed in greater and greater states and universes.
> Could we ever actually become God completely? I don't know. I don't think
> that it would ever be necessary.
> Also sharing some thoughts. Thanks for yours.
> I AM
> prometheus wrote:
> > Hello Non and All,
> > Thanks for the insightful
> > summary. I was exploring
> > the dogma of some fundamentalist
> > charismatic Christian churches
> > and saw a reference to a
> > minor (Jewish) prophet:
> > This person is mentioned
> > not by Jesus but by one of
> > his apostles in order to inspire
> > Faith.
> > Even when God seems to
> > turn his back and: causes
> > crops to fail; flocks to be
> > lost; cities attacked and
> > overrun by your enemies;
> > people brutalized, tortured
> > and killed, one is to have
> > Faith in God and a hereafter
> > reward for keeping this
> > faith. God's ego needs
> > you to believe in him
> > regardless of what pain
> > he allows to befall you.
> > One needs to project
> > a sense of hope in order
> > to better endure life, as
> > it is, no matter how bad.
> > And, it's easier to face these
> > challenges when you believe
> > that God is on your side and
> > not that of your oppressor.
> > However, does God really
> > take sides? It seems that God
> > is/was created in man's image.
> > All of this, it seems, is simply
> > an experiment to see if we
> > are all capable of evolving
> > into our "spiritual" potential.
> > Are we to become more than
> > merely a divine thought?
> > Maybe there is something
> > more to that piece of a mirror
> > analogy.
> > Anyway, religions (even Eckankar)
> > has the belief that you (and your
> > fellow believers or countrymen)
> > deserved the punishments as
> > repayment for sin. Some call it
> > Karma or cause and effect, or
> > what you sow you reap. Plus,
> > most religions see everyday
> > living and hardships as a test
> > of faith. Yet, one is supposed
> > to donate money to support
> > the specific dogma that, basically,
> > says and promises the same
> > or similar things in the imagined
> > hereafter.
> > Plus, each religion has always
> > blamed the non-believers for
> > the sins that they suffer under
> > as well. Eckankar is no different
> > and Klemp is more like these
> > preachers than EKists could ever
> > admit.
> > Well, got to go now....
> > I just had some thoughts
> > to share.
> > Prometheus
> "Non" wrote:
> So true about Googling Krishnamurti or the current Dahlia Lama for quotes
> compared to klemp. Why? Furor Klemp just doesn't do his own spiritual
> exercises, because he is a FRAUD. Ever see him lead his followers in anything
> beyond maybe a hu chant or something else lame. Everything he learned was
> from plagiarized material and he didn't even bother to study under anyone
> tails of deceivers and peddlers of consumer packaged DELUSION. Anything
> he says is carefully crafted by probably ghost writers in books and stupid
> answers to ask the master etc.
> Krishnamurti disavowed Theosophy when he could have exploited others
> as the new World teacher. That's honesty and integrity and he would say to
> not believe in anything he said, but find out for your self. The Dahlia Lama
> is similar and admits that he does not know for sure if he is the true Dahlia
> Lama and to always question your teacher or "Master", and he has turned
> leadership in Tibet in exile into a Democracy. Klemp never says to question
> him, because as is stated on the WEB site, eckankar is a hierarchical religion,
> with the living eck master as the ultimate authority. (Mein Kampf (My Struggle
> by HItler) by klemp is a more appropriate title to his life story.)
> They just can't seem to let go of authoritarianism. Kind of sickening when
> you think of it. And I notice that they have been going out of their way to
> advertise in the Newspaper under the religious section. The ad is very benign
> on the surface, but is pure lies and deception. I wonder how many are actually
> drawn into at least wasting 6 months to a year or more before they figure out
> it is a fraud. I should go down to the Library and post some kind of sign.
> > Non ;)
> > prometheus wrote:
> > Hello Janice,
> > Yes, one would think that
> > a "Modern Day Prophet"
> > would, at least, attempt
> > to live up to his PR, but
> > that's not the case with
> > Klemp. Why put himself
> > out there by demonstrating
> > his powers? It's not like
> > he announced to the
> > whole world that he was....
> > oh wait, he did!
> > That was a long time ago
> > and he never did make
> > any predictions as most
> > prophets do. Even Twit
> > made some predictions.
> > But, I'm sure that EKists
> > haven't noticed and don't
> > mine and that's why he
> > doesn't feel any pressure
> > to preform his responsibilities
> > as a real prophet.
> > Instead, Harold is very
> > cautious of being too
> > direct and understood.
> > He'd rather have EKists
> > fill-in the blanks and
> > imagine what they want,
> > need and expect until
> > they go too far and have
> > to have a behaviour
> > adjustment by their RESA.
> > That's why Klemp usually
> > gives a very one dimensional
> > perspective when he tells
> > a story.
> > Plus, Klemp's lazy so
> > why put too much
> > effort into it! And, he
> > figures that all he needs
> > to do is the KISS thing
> > of Keeping It Simple (for)
> > Stupid. Of course EKies
> > will substitute Soul for
> > Stupid but Stupid fits!
> > It's really quite amazing
> > how simple Klemp's
> > redundant message is.
> > If EKists would just compare
> > Klemp's simple minded
> > witticisms to other "spiritual"
> > leaders one would have
> > to wonder what they see
> > in Klemp. He's an embarrassment,
> > but they just laugh at his
> > quirkiness because he's
> > operating on so many
> > high planes of consciousness
> > simultaneously. LOL!
> > Just Google Kristamurti's
> > quotes or the Dali Lama's.
> > Klemp, the great Mahanta,
> > isn't even in the same ball
> > park with the current Dali
> > Lama! And, in HK's Autobiography
> > (pg. 385) he claims that
> > Buddhism is a 4th Plane
> > religion while Eckankar
> > is a 14th Plane Religion!
> > But, EKists need to compare
> > the two leaders and how
> > they present themselves
> > and what they have to say.
> > Will ECKists make the
> > comparison? No, of course
> > not! They won't even allow
> > the door to be opened a
> > crack because some light
> > might get in and show
> > them the Truth. They can't
> > handle the Truth and
> > would rather remain ignorant.
> > It's much easier, besides,
> > what would they replace
> > Eckankar with? It's too much
> > responsibility to think for
> > oneself and exercise free
> > will. And, it would make
> > life too lonely to lose all
> > of those EK friends.
> > Prometheus
> > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
> > Well, since HK is the mahanta why couldn't he have simple told the man that
> > the child was or was not the soul of his mother? Yep, he is wishy washy to say
> > the least. He doesn't seem to ever answer a question directly. I guess he is
> > afraid to give a committed answer because some one else might write in and ask
> > the same question and he might give the opposite answer. Smells like a
> > charlatan to me.
> > Prometheus wrote:
> > The December 2012
> > Eckankar Mystic World
> > in the Ask the Master
> > section are two interesting
> > questions and answers.
> > The first question has
> > to do with Stress and
> > how to overcome it.
> > HK's answer is wishy-
> > washy at best. He says
> > that stress is "very
> > uncomfortable... Yet
> > stress is a good teacher."
> > Klemp goes on to say
> > that people can increase
> > their tolerance to stress
> > by eating healthy, getting
> > enough sleep, and by
> > "Reducing our overuse
> > of electronic devices."
> > In other words it seems
> > Klemp is saying, in a
> > roundabout way, to use
> > moderation. After all,
> > he's saying to reduce
> > "overuse."
> > Then, again, how does
> > a EK staffer at the ESC
> > not use their computer
> > 8 hours a day?
> > The next question involves
> > reincarnation. This guy's
> > wife gave birth to a baby
> > boy and two days later his
> > mother translated (died).
> > He indirectly asked if this
> > new baby was his mother.
> > Instead of giving this EKist
> > a direct answer, Klemp,
> > the wishy-washy Mahanta
> > says, "Yes, it is quite possible.
> > When it comes to rebirth,
> > anything at all can happen...
> > Whichever Soul is now your
> > son, everything is in accord
> > with what is best for all around."
> > Prometheus
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