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6588Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta

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  • tuza8
    Jan 8, 2013
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      Hi,prometheus and all,Actually, I am former disciple of master ching hai,I dont think she is fake master,but regarding her level ,she said
      she is 8 trillion initiate right now ,I dont believe. ,because from 1986 untill now just 27 years ,how can her achieve such level?is it possible once achieve that level in a short time?27 year?you are a master,so ,you know the answer. is it possible?pls tell me.
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
      >
      > Hello Tuza8,
      > Welcome to the site!
      > Thanks for the info
      > on, yet, another religious
      > scammer/fraud.
      >
      > I'm assuming that your
      > questions are rhetorical.
      >
      > I found some info on this
      > person and the following
      > video:
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--x-647HW8I
      >
      > Here's more info that that
      > I uncovered on Wikipedia:
      >
      > [Note the info within the (*****)
      > It sounds a lot like Klemp's
      > Eckankar/Mahanta dogma]
      >
      > Quan Yin Method
      >
      > In 1986, Ching Hai founded the 'Immeasurable Light Meditation Center' and the 'Way of Sound Contemplation' (Quan Yin Method) in Miaoli, Taiwan.[10] Quan Yin Method is markedly similar to the much older Surat Shabd Yoga from the Sant Mat tradition which also teaches meditation on light and sound.[25] In 1988 she severed any connection with Buddhism and developed the flamboyant style with which she is now associated.[10]
      >
      >
      > *****
      > Ching Hai has said, "It's not that I invented the Quan Yin Method; I just know it. This method has existed since the beginning of time, when the universe was first formed. And it will always exist. It is not a method; it is like the way of the universe, a universal law that we must follow if we want to get back to the Origin, back to our true Self, back to the Kingdom of God or our Buddha nature."[26] In her book The Key of Immediate Enlightenment, it is said that those who recite her name would become elevated.[27]
      >
      > Ching Hai initiates spiritual aspirants into the Quan Yin Method, which is purported to exist in various religions under different names, as the "best, easiest, and quickest" way to get enlightenment.[28][29] The method involves meditation on the "inner light and the inner sound of God", or the Shabd that she claims is also referred to in the Bible and said to be acknowledged repeatedly in the literature of all the world's major spiritual traditions.
      > *****
      >
      >
      > Ching Hai accepts people from all backgrounds and religious affiliations for initiation. One does not have to change one's present religion or system of beliefs.[7] Neophytes to the Ching Hai way may cease eating animal products gradually (for ten days per month) in what is termed the
      >
      > "Convenient Method" and do half an hour of meditation a day.[7] The Quan Yin Method requires two and a half hours of meditation per day and adherence to five precepts[30] borrowed from the Five Precepts of Buddhism:
      >
      > Refrain from taking the life of sentient beings.
      > Refrain from speaking what is not true.
      > Refrain from taking what is not offered.
      > Refrain from sexual misconduct.
      > Refrain from the use of intoxicants.
      >
      > [edit]Quan Yin Method in China
      >
      > Quan Yin Method was introduced on the Chinese mainland in 1992, where it is commonly known as "Guanyin Famen" (Famen is Chinese for method). It spread without notice for several years, but in July 1996, two years before the onset of a campaign to stamp out "heretical sects," authorities in Sichuan found a list of several thousand practitioners of the method in seven provinces; it included many Chinese Communist Party members, and some high-ranking cadres.[10]
      >
      > The authorities asserted that the organization's beliefs and activities were fundamentally "anticommunist", and it was labelled a "reactionary religious organization."[10] In 1995, it was also labelled a "cult organization".[31] At the time that the ban against "heterodox religions" was put into law in July 1999, Guanyin Famen / Quan Yin Method claimed an estimated 500,000 followers in 20 provinces and cities.[10]
      >
      > In January 2002 the manager of the Wuhan Zhongzhi Electric Testing Equipment Company was accused by the Chinese authorities of using the business as a cover to "support heresies" associated with Guanyin Famen.[10] The enterprise allegedly supported 30 Guanyin practitioners who "masqueraded as employees and business associates." The manager was charged with using the company's offices and buildings as "retreat sites," organizing "initiations" and "screenings" to recruit members, and illegally printing and distributing more than 6,000 copies of "heretical texts."[10]
      >
      > [edit]Criticism
      >
      > [edit]Environmental violations
      > In 2004, an artificial island and 330-foot (100 m) long boardwalk created in Biscayne National Park cost $1 million USD to remove after being illegally constructed by Ching Hai, known locally as a wealthy property owner under the pseudonym Celestia De Lamour.[32] National Park workers replanted between 400 and 500 mangrove trees in the area once covered by the illegal boardwalk. The private property owned by Ching Hai adjacent to the national park was seized by police and later sold at auction to the village of Palmetto Bay, which planned to establish a park on the site.[33]
      >
      > Yes, I read where she is
      > very popular in Taiwan
      > and that she has 20,000
      > followers world wide.
      >
      > She's half Vietnamese
      > and Chinese and became
      > a disciple of Thakar Singh
      > and studied Surat Shabd
      > Yoga (Sant Mat - Inner
      > Light and Sound), but
      > was, later, initiated by
      > a Buddhist monk.
      >
      > All those who follow
      > her are asked to become
      > Vegetarians and initiation
      > is free of charge. It doesn't
      > appear that there is a
      > Membership Donation/Fee
      > like with Ecklankar, but
      > she does make a lot of
      > money by selling books,
      > videos, etc. She also owns
      > Vegetarian and Vegan
      > Restaurants (Loving Hut),
      > has jewelry outlets, and
      > designs her own clothing
      > line.
      >
      > Her name, Ching Hai,
      > means "pure ocean."
      >
      > Google the "Quan Yin
      > Method" to find out
      > more about her daily
      > meditation of the inner
      > L & S.
      >
      > She's been described as a:
      > "tireless publicity seeker;
      > The Immaterial Girl... Part
      > Buddha, Part Madonna;
      > The Buddhist Martha Stewart
      > ... merchandizing mystic
      > from Taiwan."
      >
      > So, it seems that because
      > of her Buddhist connections
      > that she's associated with
      > the more familiar Buddhism,
      > however, she teaches the
      > less known (outside India)
      > Surat Shabd Yoga as does
      > ECKankar.
      >
      > Funny, though, that her
      > religion/enterprise had
      > a later start than ECKankar
      > but is making more money
      > and bringing in more people.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > "tuza8" wrote:
      >
      > Hi prometheu,
      > I agree what you said,
      > they are some false master
      > in public.
      >
      > recently one femala master,
      > her name is master ching hai,
      > master ching hai claim herself
      > is 8 billion plane initiation level,
      >
      > do you believe it?
      >
      > in 1985 she become master
      > and began taught mediatation
      > on light and sound, whom said
      > come from higher world into
      > this lower world ,
      >
      > her also said come to this
      > lower world many times,
      > alway is a master for help
      > people.
      >
      > do you believe?
      >
      > prometheus_973" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello I Am, Non, and All,
      > > > I'm not so sure that humans
      > > > will ever become like, God,
      > > > our imagined or possible
      > > > creator. And, if at all, certainly
      > > > not in any lifetime soon.
      > > >
      > > > But, it could be that the
      > > > universe(s) just happened
      > > > and that the remnants of
      > > > other life forms were spread
      > > > to this planet, and others,
      > > > via space rubble... from
      > > > destroyed civilizations
      > > > and planets. Or, was it an
      > > > intentional seeding by an
      > > > advanced race... which was,
      > > > itself, seeded by another
      > > > advanced race etc.
      > > >
      > > > Maybe the "spiritual"
      > > > experiences we have
      > > > are the result of
      > > > interaction with the
      > > > quantum mechanical
      > > > field?
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, it seems to me
      > > > that what really matters
      > > > are relationships. It's our
      > > > relationships with others,
      > > > even strangers, that matter
      > > > most. This is how we really
      > > > learn and grow. Loving
      > > > relationships are valuable.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp, and others like
      > > > him, are: liars; posers;
      > > > have arrested development;
      > > > are sociopathic; narcissistic;
      > > > and are even psychopathic.
      > > > They are incapable of learning,
      > > > or caring about others (are
      > > > unloving) and attempt to
      > > > impede social progress and
      > > > justice. They use the rest of
      > > > us for their own personal
      > > > greed and selfish desires.
      > > >
      > > > Then, again, this strife and
      > > > uncertainly (stress) that is
      > > > created can make life interesting
      > > > and a challenge, although,
      > > > it can/will also be physically
      > > > and emotionally painful.
      > > >
      > > > But, having a regular life
      > > > without additional commitments
      > > > and involvements can also
      > > > offer rewarding experiences
      > > > and insights. We are never
      > > > all that alone. However, I'm
      > > > not sure how peace of any
      > > > sort (except in one's own mind)
      > > > will ever happen in a world
      > > > controlled by sociopaths.
      > > >
      > > > One must care about everyone
      > > > and have caring relationships
      > > > with people in order for humankind
      > > > to advance and survive. To me,
      > > > this is the "spiritual" key to life.
      > > > I almost included animals, too,
      > > > but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
      > > > include "caring" about them (all)
      > > > too.
      > > >
      > > > How can one really "care" about
      > > > the sociopaths and psychopaths
      > > > except to keep them away from
      > > > nice, loving and kind (normal?)
      > > > people.
      > > >
      > > > When one thinks about it the
      > > > definition of what's "normal"
      > > > keeps changing. The extroverts
      > > > seem to be more pathological
      > > > than the introverts don't you
      > > > agree? Yet, the extroverts try
      > > > to force us introverts to become
      > > > extroverted. Why is that? Misery
      > > > loves company I suppose or is
      > > > it that an army of glassy-eyed
      > > > introverts acting, as if, extroverted
      > > > is more intimidating.
      > > >
      > > > In any case the idea of a "God"
      > > > to worship and viewed as being
      > > > "involved" in our lives detracts
      > > > from "us" being involved in our
      > > > lives because of the differences
      > > > we see in one another. This is
      > > > why there are so many different
      > > > religious dogmas of what's right
      > > > and wrong.
      > > >
      > > > Therefore, the differences in the
      > > > way in which "God" is worshipped,
      > > > for me, shows that "God" does not
      > > > exist. We don't want to be alone
      > > > nor take responsibility for our own
      > > > actions. Thus, we blame God or
      > > > use God as our scape goat.
      > > >
      > > > There are major flaws with all
      > > > of these religions and the so-called
      > > > "source" of their scriptures. It's
      > > > all hearsay and the only thing
      > > > that, supposedly, gives them
      > > > validation is that these various
      > > > people in history/myth that the
      > > > scribes wrote about are claimed
      > > > to have said or done some nice,
      > > > inspirational, brave, or insightful
      > > > things a very long time ago. Age/
      > > > time (being ancient) seems to
      > > > have given them credibility, because
      > > > it is believed and taught that
      > > > only Divine Intercession could
      > > > have been the source for their
      > > > Divine Inspiration.
      > > >
      > > > But, IMO, there are many people,
      > > > today, who are not even followers
      > > > of these dogmas that are as, or
      > > > more: honest; brave; insightful;
      > > > inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
      > > > than the prophets, saints, and founders
      > > > of these major and minor religions.
      > > > Many of these people inspired
      > > > others by never giving up in time
      > > > of conflict because, sometimes,
      > > > there weren't many other choices.
      > > > Even those who did give up and
      > > > had bad things befall them, still,
      > > > maintained their faith and this
      > > > fact turned them into "prophets"
      > > > or saints. If this is the standard
      > > > for religions there are an awful
      > > > lot of believers and faithful, today,
      > > > that just as deluded and desperate.
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > iam999freedom" wrote:
      > > > Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
      > > > with unconditional love for the
      > > > master and you get a submissive
      > > > control pattern as your reward.
      > > > Buyer beware!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus, you wrote:
      > > > "All of this, it seems, is simply
      > > > an experiment to see if we
      > > > are all capable of evolving
      > > > into our "spiritual" potential.
      > > > Are we to become more than
      > > > merely a divine thought?
      > > > Maybe there is something
      > > > more to that piece of a mirror
      > > > analogy."
      > > >
      > > > I've often wondered about the "mirror analogy". That is, Soul is like a
      > > > shattered piece of a mirror that God wants back to complete itself again.
      > > > I not sure this will happen because would not the end result of that be
      > > > stagnation setting in? I think the show must go on. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting
      > > > the end result of the mirror analagy.
      > > >
      > > > I like your summary of the big picture being "simply an experiment to
      > > > see if we are all capable of evolving into our "spiritual" potential."
      > > >
      > > > I remember in school our teacher talking about something being in a static
      > > > or peaceful state then being knocked out of that equillibrium by another event.
      > > > Some chaos would result before returning to equillibrium. An example is a person
      > > > has a job they enjoy then are let go because of downsizing and are dazed and
      > > > lost until they find a new job. On and on in our life we are constantly moving
      > > > from equillibrium to unrest and back. I would like to think our life has more
      > > > meaning than being in a pinball machine.
      > > >
      > > > Perhaps God wants us to evolve our spiritual potential. When we unfold
      > > > spiritually (which includes meeting challenges and being creative in this
      > > > lifetime)we start fulfilling our spiritual potential. The freedom of expressions
      > > > and experiences that await us upon death and perhaps "life after life", if
      > > > needed, is beyond our human imagination and are ever expanding. God
      > > > would take great joy in us meeting our spiritual maturity as the experiment
      > > > It created is life expresed in greater and greater states and universes.
      > > >
      > > > Could we ever actually become God completely? I don't know. I don't think
      > > > that it would ever be necessary.
      > > >
      > > > Also sharing some thoughts. Thanks for yours.
      > > >
      > > > I AM
      > > >
      > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello Non and All,
      > > > > Thanks for the insightful
      > > > > summary. I was exploring
      > > > > the dogma of some fundamentalist
      > > > > charismatic Christian churches
      > > > > and saw a reference to a
      > > > > minor (Jewish) prophet:
      > > > >
      > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Habakkuk
      > > > >
      > > > > This person is mentioned
      > > > > not by Jesus but by one of
      > > > > his apostles in order to inspire
      > > > > Faith.
      > > > >
      > > > > Even when God seems to
      > > > > turn his back and: causes
      > > > > crops to fail; flocks to be
      > > > > lost; cities attacked and
      > > > > overrun by your enemies;
      > > > > people brutalized, tortured
      > > > > and killed, one is to have
      > > > > Faith in God and a hereafter
      > > > > reward for keeping this
      > > > > faith. God's ego needs
      > > > > you to believe in him
      > > > > regardless of what pain
      > > > > he allows to befall you.
      > > > >
      > > > > One needs to project
      > > > > a sense of hope in order
      > > > > to better endure life, as
      > > > > it is, no matter how bad.
      > > > >
      > > > > And, it's easier to face these
      > > > > challenges when you believe
      > > > > that God is on your side and
      > > > > not that of your oppressor.
      > > > >
      > > > > However, does God really
      > > > > take sides? It seems that God
      > > > > is/was created in man's image.
      > > > >
      > > > > All of this, it seems, is simply
      > > > > an experiment to see if we
      > > > > are all capable of evolving
      > > > > into our "spiritual" potential.
      > > > > Are we to become more than
      > > > > merely a divine thought?
      > > > > Maybe there is something
      > > > > more to that piece of a mirror
      > > > > analogy.
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, religions (even Eckankar)
      > > > > has the belief that you (and your
      > > > > fellow believers or countrymen)
      > > > > deserved the punishments as
      > > > > repayment for sin. Some call it
      > > > > Karma or cause and effect, or
      > > > > what you sow you reap. Plus,
      > > > > most religions see everyday
      > > > > living and hardships as a test
      > > > > of faith. Yet, one is supposed
      > > > > to donate money to support
      > > > > the specific dogma that, basically,
      > > > > says and promises the same
      > > > > or similar things in the imagined
      > > > > hereafter.
      > > > >
      > > > > Plus, each religion has always
      > > > > blamed the non-believers for
      > > > > the sins that they suffer under
      > > > > as well. Eckankar is no different
      > > > > and Klemp is more like these
      > > > > preachers than EKists could ever
      > > > > admit.
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, got to go now....
      > > > > I just had some thoughts
      > > > > to share.
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > > >
      > > > "Non" wrote:
      > > > So true about Googling Krishnamurti or the current Dahlia Lama for quotes
      > > > compared to klemp. Why? Furor Klemp just doesn't do his own spiritual
      > > > exercises, because he is a FRAUD. Ever see him lead his followers in anything
      > > > beyond maybe a hu chant or something else lame. Everything he learned was
      > > > from plagiarized material and he didn't even bother to study under anyone
      > > > tails of deceivers and peddlers of consumer packaged DELUSION. Anything
      > > > he says is carefully crafted by probably ghost writers in books and stupid
      > > > answers to ask the master etc.
      > > > >
      > > > Krishnamurti disavowed Theosophy when he could have exploited others
      > > > as the new World teacher. That's honesty and integrity and he would say to
      > > > not believe in anything he said, but find out for your self. The Dahlia Lama
      > > > is similar and admits that he does not know for sure if he is the true Dahlia
      > > > Lama and to always question your teacher or "Master", and he has turned
      > > > leadership in Tibet in exile into a Democracy. Klemp never says to question
      > > > him, because as is stated on the WEB site, eckankar is a hierarchical religion,
      > > > with the living eck master as the ultimate authority. (Mein Kampf (My Struggle
      > > > by HItler) by klemp is a more appropriate title to his life story.)
      > > > >
      > > > They just can't seem to let go of authoritarianism. Kind of sickening when
      > > > you think of it. And I notice that they have been going out of their way to
      > > > advertise in the Newspaper under the religious section. The ad is very benign
      > > > on the surface, but is pure lies and deception. I wonder how many are actually
      > > > drawn into at least wasting 6 months to a year or more before they figure out
      > > > it is a fraud. I should go down to the Library and post some kind of sign.
      > > > >
      > > > > Non ;)
      > > > >
      > > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello Janice,
      > > > > Yes, one would think that
      > > > > a "Modern Day Prophet"
      > > > > would, at least, attempt
      > > > > to live up to his PR, but
      > > > > that's not the case with
      > > > > Klemp. Why put himself
      > > > > out there by demonstrating
      > > > > his powers? It's not like
      > > > > he announced to the
      > > > > whole world that he was....
      > > > > oh wait, he did!
      > > > >
      > > > > That was a long time ago
      > > > > and he never did make
      > > > > any predictions as most
      > > > > prophets do. Even Twit
      > > > > made some predictions.
      > > > > But, I'm sure that EKists
      > > > > haven't noticed and don't
      > > > > mine and that's why he
      > > > > doesn't feel any pressure
      > > > > to preform his responsibilities
      > > > > as a real prophet.
      > > > >
      > > > > Instead, Harold is very
      > > > > cautious of being too
      > > > > direct and understood.
      > > > > He'd rather have EKists
      > > > > fill-in the blanks and
      > > > > imagine what they want,
      > > > > need and expect until
      > > > > they go too far and have
      > > > > to have a behaviour
      > > > > adjustment by their RESA.
      > > > > That's why Klemp usually
      > > > > gives a very one dimensional
      > > > > perspective when he tells
      > > > > a story.
      > > > >
      > > > > Plus, Klemp's lazy so
      > > > > why put too much
      > > > > effort into it! And, he
      > > > > figures that all he needs
      > > > > to do is the KISS thing
      > > > > of Keeping It Simple (for)
      > > > > Stupid. Of course EKies
      > > > > will substitute Soul for
      > > > > Stupid but Stupid fits!
      > > > >
      > > > > It's really quite amazing
      > > > > how simple Klemp's
      > > > > redundant message is.
      > > > > If EKists would just compare
      > > > > Klemp's simple minded
      > > > > witticisms to other "spiritual"
      > > > > leaders one would have
      > > > > to wonder what they see
      > > > > in Klemp. He's an embarrassment,
      > > > > but they just laugh at his
      > > > > quirkiness because he's
      > > > > operating on so many
      > > > > high planes of consciousness
      > > > > simultaneously. LOL!
      > > > >
      > > > > Just Google Kristamurti's
      > > > > quotes or the Dali Lama's.
      > > > > Klemp, the great Mahanta,
      > > > > isn't even in the same ball
      > > > > park with the current Dali
      > > > > Lama! And, in HK's Autobiography
      > > > > (pg. 385) he claims that
      > > > > Buddhism is a 4th Plane
      > > > > religion while Eckankar
      > > > > is a 14th Plane Religion!
      > > > > But, EKists need to compare
      > > > > the two leaders and how
      > > > > they present themselves
      > > > > and what they have to say.
      > > > >
      > > > > Will ECKists make the
      > > > > comparison? No, of course
      > > > > not! They won't even allow
      > > > > the door to be opened a
      > > > > crack because some light
      > > > > might get in and show
      > > > > them the Truth. They can't
      > > > > handle the Truth and
      > > > > would rather remain ignorant.
      > > > > It's much easier, besides,
      > > > > what would they replace
      > > > > Eckankar with? It's too much
      > > > > responsibility to think for
      > > > > oneself and exercise free
      > > > > will. And, it would make
      > > > > life too lonely to lose all
      > > > > of those EK friends.
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > > > > Well, since HK is the mahanta why couldn't he have simple told the man that
      > > > > the child was or was not the soul of his mother? Yep, he is wishy washy to say
      > > > > the least. He doesn't seem to ever answer a question directly. I guess he is
      > > > > afraid to give a committed answer because some one else might write in and ask
      > > > > the same question and he might give the opposite answer. Smells like a
      > > > > charlatan to me.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > The December 2012
      > > > > Eckankar Mystic World
      > > > > in the Ask the Master
      > > > > section are two interesting
      > > > > questions and answers.
      > > > >
      > > > > The first question has
      > > > > to do with Stress and
      > > > > how to overcome it.
      > > > >
      > > > > HK's answer is wishy-
      > > > > washy at best. He says
      > > > > that stress is "very
      > > > > uncomfortable... Yet
      > > > > stress is a good teacher."
      > > > >
      > > > > Klemp goes on to say
      > > > > that people can increase
      > > > > their tolerance to stress
      > > > > by eating healthy, getting
      > > > > enough sleep, and by
      > > > > "Reducing our overuse
      > > > > of electronic devices."
      > > > >
      > > > > In other words it seems
      > > > > Klemp is saying, in a
      > > > > roundabout way, to use
      > > > > moderation. After all,
      > > > > he's saying to reduce
      > > > > "overuse."
      > > > >
      > > > > Then, again, how does
      > > > > a EK staffer at the ESC
      > > > > not use their computer
      > > > > 8 hours a day?
      > > > >
      > > > > The next question involves
      > > > > reincarnation. This guy's
      > > > > wife gave birth to a baby
      > > > > boy and two days later his
      > > > > mother translated (died).
      > > > > He indirectly asked if this
      > > > > new baby was his mother.
      > > > >
      > > > > Instead of giving this EKist
      > > > > a direct answer, Klemp,
      > > > > the wishy-washy Mahanta
      > > > > says, "Yes, it is quite possible.
      > > > > When it comes to rebirth,
      > > > > anything at all can happen...
      > > > > Whichever Soul is now your
      > > > > son, everything is in accord
      > > > > with what is best for all around."
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > >
      >
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