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6583Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Jan 7, 2013
      Thank you Prometheus, I enjoyed your writing very much.  The way I see it when the bad guys do bad things and the sociopaths use it for their purposes, there are always the good guys who step forth and do the right things.  We talked a lot about that school shooting recently and I believe that is a happening that stunned us all.  The senselessness of what happened is not something a loving heart can even begin to understand.  But there where people there who gave their lives to protect helpless children.  There were people from all over the country who helped in anyway they could.  That town came together to support each other in an amazing way.  Shared grief does appear to make a lighter burden for the individual.  So for me, I think there is a kind of balance of good and evil even if it is the evil we hear the most about.  We hear so much of the bad it is hard to keep believing in the good.  But when people are hurt, there are always others who come forward and do what they can to give comfort and love.  It doesn't take the pain away but it shows those who are hurting that there is still love in the world and no number of atrocities can destroy that willingness to help others.  Maybe part of growing is learning to discern the motives of others and learning not to be taken in by sociopaths.  Maybe part of what we are here to do is to love against all odds when the media blasts us everyday with horrible stories and tells us how close we are to being blown away by foreign threats.  Maybe what we are learning is that a loving heart is a strong heart while those who usually do these horrible things are afraid and broken inside.  Maybe those sociopaths aren't the strongest either since it takes so much energy just maintaining their facades that they don't really see the precious things in life like those loving relationships you mentioned.  After all, most of them are so busy hiding their true selves they are obviously cowards.  They don't live life, they hide from life while trying to grab all they can for themselves.  You got to admit that life is full of smoke and mirrors and the real gems in life may not sparkle like diamonds but do give off a quiet beauty that only those with the knowledge to appreciate them can even see them.  So I guess those sociopaths have a lot of learning to do and a lot of growing to do before they can ever even start to see a glint of beauty in life itself.  When you love, your heart can break but can you really say the love wasn't worth it?  I would rather know my heart will hurt than not to feel anything for others at all.  Strong loving hearts will mend but those shattered beings who harm and use others haven't even begun the journey.  Loving hearts can and will share the pain.  Eckankar doesn't do anything for anyone but eckankar.  So what does that say about the lem and the other leaders of eckankar?  I'd say those they use are closer to perfection than they can even see.  Bless all the loving eckist tonight. 

      --- On Mon, 1/7/13, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 8:35 PM

       
      Hello I Am, Non, and All,
      I'm not so sure that humans
      will ever become like, God,
      our imagined or possible
      creator. And, if at all, certainly
      not in any lifetime soon.

      But, it could be that the
      universe(s) just happened
      and that the remnants of
      other life forms were spread
      to this planet, and others,
      via space rubble... from
      destroyed civilizations
      and planets. Or, was it an
      intentional seeding by an
      advanced race... which was,
      itself, seeded by another
      advanced race etc.

      Maybe the "spiritual"
      experiences we have
      are the result of
      interaction with the
      quantum mechanical
      field?

      Anyway, it seems to me
      that what really matters
      are relationships. It's our
      relationships with others,
      even strangers, that matter
      most. This is how we really
      learn and grow. Loving
      relationships are valuable.

      Klemp, and others like
      him, are: liars; posers;
      have arrested development;
      are sociopathic; narcissistic;
      and are even psychopathic.
      They are incapable of learning,
      or caring about others (are
      unloving) and attempt to
      impede social progress and
      justice. They use the rest of
      us for their own personal
      greed and selfish desires.

      Then, again, this strife and
      uncertainly (stress) that is
      created can make life interesting
      and a challenge, although,
      it can/will also be physically
      and emotionally painful.

      But, having a regular life
      without additional commitments
      and involvements can also
      offer rewarding experiences
      and insights. We are never
      all that alone. However, I'm
      not sure how peace of any
      sort (except in one's own mind)
      will ever happen in a world
      controlled by sociopaths.

      One must care about everyone
      and have caring relationships
      with people in order for humankind
      to advance and survive. To me,
      this is the "spiritual" key to life.
      I almost included animals, too,
      but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
      include "caring" about them (all)
      too.

      How can one really "care" about
      the sociopaths and psychopaths
      except to keep them away from
      nice, loving and kind (normal?)
      people.

      When one thinks about it the
      definition of what's "normal"
      keeps changing. The extroverts
      seem to be more pathological
      than the introverts don't you
      agree? Yet, the extroverts try
      to force us introverts to become
      extroverted. Why is that? Misery
      loves company I suppose or is
      it that an army of glassy-eyed
      introverts acting, as if, extroverted
      is more intimidating.

      In any case the idea of a "God"
      to worship and viewed as being
      "involved" in our lives detracts
      from "us" being involved in our
      lives because of the differences
      we see in one another. This is
      why there are so many different
      religious dogmas of what's right
      and wrong.

      Therefore, the differences in the
      way in which "God" is worshipped,
      for me, shows that "God" does not
      exist. We don't want to be alone
      nor take responsibility for our own
      actions. Thus, we blame God or
      use God as our scape goat.

      There are major flaws with all
      of these religions and the so-called
      "source" of their scriptures. It's
      all hearsay and the only thing
      that, supposedly, gives them
      validation is that these various
      people in history/myth that the
      scribes wrote about are claimed
      to have said or done some nice,
      inspirational, brave, or insightful
      things a very long time ago. Age/
      time (being ancient) seems to
      have given them credibility, because
      it is believed and taught that
      only Divine Intercession could
      have been the source for their
      Divine Inspiration.

      But, IMO, there are many people,
      today, who are not even followers
      of these dogmas that are as, or
      more: honest; brave; insightful;
      inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
      than the prophets, saints, and founders
      of these major and minor religions.
      Many of these people inspired
      others by never giving up in time
      of conflict because, sometimes,
      there weren't many other choices.
      Even those who did give up and
      had bad things befall them, still,
      maintained their faith and this
      fact turned them into "prophets"
      or saints. If this is the standard
      for religions there are an awful
      lot of believers and faithful, today,
      that just as deluded and desperate.

      Prometheus


      iam999freedom" wrote:
      Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
      with unconditional love for the
      master and you get a submissive
      control pattern as your reward.
      Buyer beware!

      Prometheus, you wrote:
      "All of this, it seems, is simply
      an experiment to see if we
      are all capable of evolving
      into our "spiritual" potential.
      Are we to become more than
      merely a divine thought?
      Maybe there is something
      more to that piece of a mirror
      analogy."

      I've often wondered about the "mirror analogy". That is, Soul is like a
      shattered piece of a mirror that God wants back to complete itself again.
      I not sure this will happen because would not the end result of that be
      stagnation setting in? I think the show must go on. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting
      the end result of the mirror analagy.

      I like your summary of the big picture being "simply an experiment to
      see if we are all capable of evolving into our "spiritual" potential."

      I remember in school our teacher talking about something being in a static
      or peaceful state then being knocked out of that equillibrium by another event.
      Some chaos would result before returning to equillibrium. An example is a person
      has a job they enjoy then are let go because of downsizing and are dazed and
      lost until they find a new job. On and on in our life we are constantly moving
      from equillibrium to unrest and back. I would like to think our life has more
      meaning than being in a pinball machine.

      Perhaps God wants us to evolve our spiritual potential. When we unfold
      spiritually (which includes meeting challenges and being creative in this
      lifetime)we start fulfilling our spiritual potential. The freedom of expressions
      and experiences that await us upon death and perhaps "life after life", if
      needed, is beyond our human imagination and are ever expanding. God
      would take great joy in us meeting our spiritual maturity as the experiment
      It created is life expresed in greater and greater states and universes.

      Could we ever actually become God completely? I don't know. I don't think
      that it would ever be necessary.

      Also sharing some thoughts. Thanks for yours.

      I AM

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Non and All,
      > Thanks for the insightful
      > summary. I was exploring
      > the dogma of some fundamentalist
      > charismatic Christian churches
      > and saw a reference to a
      > minor (Jewish) prophet:
      >
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Habakkuk
      >
      > This person is mentioned
      > not by Jesus but by one of
      > his apostles in order to inspire
      > Faith.
      >
      > Even when God seems to
      > turn his back and: causes
      > crops to fail; flocks to be
      > lost; cities attacked and
      > overrun by your enemies;
      > people brutalized, tortured
      > and killed, one is to have
      > Faith in God and a hereafter
      > reward for keeping this
      > faith. God's ego needs
      > you to believe in him
      > regardless of what pain
      > he allows to befall you.
      >
      > One needs to project
      > a sense of hope in order
      > to better endure life, as
      > it is, no matter how bad.
      >
      > And, it's easier to face these
      > challenges when you believe
      > that God is on your side and
      > not that of your oppressor.
      >
      > However, does God really
      > take sides? It seems that God
      > is/was created in man's image.
      >
      > All of this, it seems, is simply
      > an experiment to see if we
      > are all capable of evolving
      > into our "spiritual" potential.
      > Are we to become more than
      > merely a divine thought?
      > Maybe there is something
      > more to that piece of a mirror
      > analogy.
      >
      > Anyway, religions (even Eckankar)
      > has the belief that you (and your
      > fellow believers or countrymen)
      > deserved the punishments as
      > repayment for sin. Some call it
      > Karma or cause and effect, or
      > what you sow you reap. Plus,
      > most religions see everyday
      > living and hardships as a test
      > of faith. Yet, one is supposed
      > to donate money to support
      > the specific dogma that, basically,
      > says and promises the same
      > or similar things in the imagined
      > hereafter.
      >
      > Plus, each religion has always
      > blamed the non-believers for
      > the sins that they suffer under
      > as well. Eckankar is no different
      > and Klemp is more like these
      > preachers than EKists could ever
      > admit.
      >
      > Well, got to go now....
      > I just had some thoughts
      > to share.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      "Non" wrote:
      So true about Googling Krishnamurti or the current Dahlia Lama for quotes
      compared to klemp. Why? Furor Klemp just doesn't do his own spiritual
      exercises, because he is a FRAUD. Ever see him lead his followers in anything
      beyond maybe a hu chant or something else lame. Everything he learned was
      from plagiarized material and he didn't even bother to study under anyone
      tails of deceivers and peddlers of consumer packaged DELUSION. Anything
      he says is carefully crafted by probably ghost writers in books and stupid
      answers to ask the master etc.
      >
      Krishnamurti disavowed Theosophy when he could have exploited others
      as the new World teacher. That's honesty and integrity and he would say to
      not believe in anything he said, but find out for your self. The Dahlia Lama
      is similar and admits that he does not know for sure if he is the true Dahlia
      Lama and to always question your teacher or "Master", and he has turned
      leadership in Tibet in exile into a Democracy. Klemp never says to question
      him, because as is stated on the WEB site, eckankar is a hierarchical religion,
      with the living eck master as the ultimate authority. (Mein Kampf (My Struggle
      by HItler) by klemp is a more appropriate title to his life story.)
      >
      They just can't seem to let go of authoritarianism. Kind of sickening when
      you think of it. And I notice that they have been going out of their way to
      advertise in the Newspaper under the religious section. The ad is very benign
      on the surface, but is pure lies and deception. I wonder how many are actually
      drawn into at least wasting 6 months to a year or more before they figure out
      it is a fraud. I should go down to the Library and post some kind of sign.
      >
      > Non ;)
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Janice,
      > Yes, one would think that
      > a "Modern Day Prophet"
      > would, at least, attempt
      > to live up to his PR, but
      > that's not the case with
      > Klemp. Why put himself
      > out there by demonstrating
      > his powers? It's not like
      > he announced to the
      > whole world that he was....
      > oh wait, he did!
      >
      > That was a long time ago
      > and he never did make
      > any predictions as most
      > prophets do. Even Twit
      > made some predictions.
      > But, I'm sure that EKists
      > haven't noticed and don't
      > mine and that's why he
      > doesn't feel any pressure
      > to preform his responsibilities
      > as a real prophet.
      >
      > Instead, Harold is very
      > cautious of being too
      > direct and understood.
      > He'd rather have EKists
      > fill-in the blanks and
      > imagine what they want,
      > need and expect until
      > they go too far and have
      > to have a behaviour
      > adjustment by their RESA.
      > That's why Klemp usually
      > gives a very one dimensional
      > perspective when he tells
      > a story.
      >
      > Plus, Klemp's lazy so
      > why put too much
      > effort into it! And, he
      > figures that all he needs
      > to do is the KISS thing
      > of Keeping It Simple (for)
      > Stupid. Of course EKies
      > will substitute Soul for
      > Stupid but Stupid fits!
      >
      > It's really quite amazing
      > how simple Klemp's
      > redundant message is.
      > If EKists would just compare
      > Klemp's simple minded
      > witticisms to other "spiritual"
      > leaders one would have
      > to wonder what they see
      > in Klemp. He's an embarrassment,
      > but they just laugh at his
      > quirkiness because he's
      > operating on so many
      > high planes of consciousness
      > simultaneously. LOL!
      >
      > Just Google Kristamurti's
      > quotes or the Dali Lama's.
      > Klemp, the great Mahanta,
      > isn't even in the same ball
      > park with the current Dali
      > Lama! And, in HK's Autobiography
      > (pg. 385) he claims that
      > Buddhism is a 4th Plane
      > religion while Eckankar
      > is a 14th Plane Religion!
      > But, EKists need to compare
      > the two leaders and how
      > they present themselves
      > and what they have to say.
      >
      > Will ECKists make the
      > comparison? No, of course
      > not! They won't even allow
      > the door to be opened a
      > crack because some light
      > might get in and show
      > them the Truth. They can't
      > handle the Truth and
      > would rather remain ignorant.
      > It's much easier, besides,
      > what would they replace
      > Eckankar with? It's too much
      > responsibility to think for
      > oneself and exercise free
      > will. And, it would make
      > life too lonely to lose all
      > of those EK friends.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > Well, since HK is the mahanta why couldn't he have simple told the man that
      > the child was or was not the soul of his mother? Yep, he is wishy washy to say
      > the least. He doesn't seem to ever answer a question directly. I guess he is
      > afraid to give a committed answer because some one else might write in and ask
      > the same question and he might give the opposite answer. Smells like a
      > charlatan to me.
      >
      >
      > Prometheus wrote:
      >
      > The December 2012
      > Eckankar Mystic World
      > in the Ask the Master
      > section are two interesting
      > questions and answers.
      >
      > The first question has
      > to do with Stress and
      > how to overcome it.
      >
      > HK's answer is wishy-
      > washy at best. He says
      > that stress is "very
      > uncomfortable... Yet
      > stress is a good teacher."
      >
      > Klemp goes on to say
      > that people can increase
      > their tolerance to stress
      > by eating healthy, getting
      > enough sleep, and by
      > "Reducing our overuse
      > of electronic devices."
      >
      > In other words it seems
      > Klemp is saying, in a
      > roundabout way, to use
      > moderation. After all,
      > he's saying to reduce
      > "overuse."
      >
      > Then, again, how does
      > a EK staffer at the ESC
      > not use their computer
      > 8 hours a day?
      >
      > The next question involves
      > reincarnation. This guy's
      > wife gave birth to a baby
      > boy and two days later his
      > mother translated (died).
      > He indirectly asked if this
      > new baby was his mother.
      >
      > Instead of giving this EKist
      > a direct answer, Klemp,
      > the wishy-washy Mahanta
      > says, "Yes, it is quite possible.
      > When it comes to rebirth,
      > anything at all can happen...
      > Whichever Soul is now your
      > son, everything is in accord
      > with what is best for all around."
      >
      > Prometheus

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