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  • iam999freedom
    Dec 24, 2012
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      I don't know what HK said about "free will" and genes as I left Eckankar years ago and don't have a liftetime membership. Maybe something original? If you could send a summary about it to ESA it would be appreciated as then I could tie it into what you said about the conjoined twins.

      In your post (below) I don't think I understand the significance of what you are expressing. Could you explain?

      I AM

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      > About the quote from the book, the word that came to me was karma ...
      > in the sense of cause and effect. I am not saying that I necessarily
      > believe in all the different religious dogma definitions of karma.
      > Rather, I am looking at the word literally and believe that it suggests
      > "action" ("kara") and action of a personal nature.
      > It just seems rudimentary there be a way to learn about action by the
      > effect it has. What would creation be for a creator if the creator did
      > not know the effect of a creation? And, perhaps, knowing the effect is
      > the way that creators learn? A classical example is that baby learns
      > about fire by being burned. In that sense karma, or the action of
      > touching fire, is instructive.
      > I often have heard the saying that people are responsible for
      > everything that happens to them, good and bad, as if they had something
      > to do with it. However, given free will, one person could create
      > something bad (nuclear experiments, tests and bombs) that affects
      > millions of people, but I do not necessarily believe that the people
      > affected are "responsible" as if they created such things. That they
      > created nuclear fallout. Believe it or not, I remember even Harold
      > Klemp writing something to this effect years ago which, in so many
      > words, sounded like a debunking of predestination and the idea that
      > people are "responsible" (it is their karma) for everything that
      > happens to them. Instead, I got the impression Harold was saying there
      > were examples where other people create things that can affect us, and
      > that they are things we are not each personally "responsible" for.
      > What I guess I am saying is that free will allows for individuals to
      > make "bad" choices, or choices that affect other people in a "bad" way.
      > History is filled with examples.
      > ***
      > Now, on the other hand, when Harold Klemp wrote about "free will" and
      > genes in the December 2012 Wisdom Note I had to say to myself: "It
      > looks to me like Harold has lost it!"
      > Btw, I read that Wisdom Note just before bed. In the morning when I
      > turned on the TV there was a news blurb about conjoined twins that had
      > been successfully separated. Then they went on to describe the twins
      > and how they were NOT the same and that (in so many words) one had a
      > different character than the other.
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: iam999freedom <iam999freedom@...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sun, Dec 23, 2012 8:50 pm
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] A BOOK ABOUT LOVE
      > I thought I'd share for those who may be interested about a wonderful
      > book I've just finished reading. You may have heard about the book
      > already as it was written recently in 2012 and received some media
      > attention. The name of the book is "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's
      > Journey into the Afterlife" by Eben Alexander, MD.
      > What makes his NDE (near death experience) so interesting is that
      > before it he was an atheist and also because the validity of his NDE
      > cannot be explained by conventional scientific/medical thought. He was
      > attacked by e-coli menningitis and lay in a coma for seven days
      > completely brain dead in the areas of the brain whereby a NDE and
      > consciousness are considered possible. That he completely recovered is
      > also considered to be a medical miracle. In the condition he was in
      > there is a 90% death rate and even upon survival living in a vegetative
      > state is expected.
      > It's interesting how sometimes life works in synchronicity. I placed a
      > hold on this book at the library about 3 months ago and just received
      > the book this past Friday. In the wake of the Newtown shootings I was
      > so shocked and saddened that the core of my experiences and beliefs
      > were being crushed.
      > Even though I am still deeply pained about what happened I now have a
      > refreshed look at Ourselves and God (Whole, Love), evil, free will etc.
      > I also feel rejeuvinated about the meaning of my life on earth.
      > The following is an excerpt from the book that I found richly resonated
      > within me:
      > "there is not one universe but many - in fact more than I could
      > conceive - but that love lay at the center of them all. Evil was
      > present in all the other universes as well, but only in the tiniest
      > trace amounts. Evil was necessary because without it free will was
      > impossible, and without free will there could be no growth - no forward
      > movement, no chance for us to become what God longed for us to be.
      > Horrible and as-powerful as evil somtimes seemed to be in a world like
      > ours, in the larger picture love was overwhelmingly dominant, and it
      > would ultimatlely be triumphant."
      > The book has many vivid descriptions of the other worlds, scientific
      > debate and spiritual discussion, and is written in both a simple and
      > explicit fascinating way that evoked love and compassion.
      > Perhaps as importantly it emphasises that such worlds/states can be
      > experienced with persistence meditative/comptemplative effort.
      > I Am
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