Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

6537Re: It's So Sad About the Newtown, CT. Shootings

Expand Messages
  • iam999freedom
    Dec 18 5:28 PM
      Just curious Etznab, what is your take (or writings that have influenced you) on the "big picture" of why "evil" (bad things do happen to good people)happens ie., not only the horrific day to day crap of shootings, rape, murder, drug cartels, etc., but also the natural disasters such as volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, pestulance and disease, etc. that has plagued mankind since its existence.

      I have trouble accepting traditional explanations of free will, reincarnation and karma or sin, etc. They seem like rationalizations to make a difficult issue acceptable.

      Would like to hear your point of view. Perhaps it would be just speculation but it will give me something to bounce around in my consciousness and perhaps resonate within me.


      What I wrote was not entirely based on my own experience. I was
      influenced also by writings that seemed to agree with my own
      experiences, and a website I visited yesterday (wish I had saved the
      link). In any case, it helps me to consider alternate explanations
      instead of feeling limited by eternal subjugation to a hierarchy which
      is not going to do any spiritual unfolding for me ... and so cannot
      ultimately determine, or define another person's relationship with any
      higher consciousness.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: iam999freedom
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous

      Sent: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:06 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings

      Hi Etznab, thanks for your interesting remarks. I believe I can
      understand what you are saying in so much as I have interpreted your
      comments as I think you intended. If so, how is life enhanced or
      evolved by playing this game of "hide and go seek"?ie.,individualizing
      in the physical form while beyond space and time being One(God).

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:

      Here's an other thought. Maybe there is no distinction between God and
      Soul. That there are no Souls and no Gods. And that everything that
      exists, all individuals, are inherently nothing but the same ONE thing
      which, for some, is something they sacrifice by living under the
      illusion of being something less. In this case it is no less than
      responsible for all good things and all evil things as a matter of
      individual choice.

      Is it really beyond the ONE existent reality to "limit itself"? Nature
      would seem to indicate otherwise.

      Yes this sounds like far out talk, but that is only the result of
      looking at it a particular way. What I am saying is that God can limit
      itself and not limit itself at the same time, because God - the true
      realization of it - exists as part of a realm devoid of time as we

      Take human thoughts as an example of what I'm trying to get at. People
      can imagine limitation and even imagine being killed and being reborn.
      But when those are only thoughts it doesn't change the constitution
      the makeup of the person having those thoughts. Like, I could imagine
      myself as an ant but that would only be an imagination and would not
      change the fact that I am human just having a thought of being an ant.
      So what is to say that God can't also imagine, or think, and in no way
      is God, or the ONE, changed by having thoughts.

      And then again, what is to say that people (in the greater scheme) are
      not really God identifying with creation to such an extent as to
      identify with the creation as opposed to the creator? After
      identification with creation is severed upon physical death, perhaps
      the realization of God increases and there might be something to the
      belief in various inner bodies and inner planes. If the individual
      believes and identifies with the creations there, as here.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: iam999freedom
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous

      Sent: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:26 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings

      Hi, there is an issue that keeps cropping up and troubles me when I
      think of the Newton shootings and all the other tragedies in this

      When God,(if there is such a being) created this world, It obviously
      knew of the negative choices that people would make like the Newtown
      shootings, murder, rape, incest, child prostitution, the list goes on
      and on. Human free choice and perhaps subsequent karma has been used
      explain away God's responsibilty for these hideous events.

      However, if the director of a play (God) creates characters in the
      (humans) that It knows will make negative choices (because that's one
      of the main ways a human learns) does that not make God at least
      indirectly responsible for these tragedies? Just a thought that leads
      me to thinks:
      1. Maybe God is not as Loving as we are lead to believe.
      2. I have trouble believing in or wanting to follow such a Being.

      Any thoughts from others?


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
      jepfeiffer@ wrote:
      > Well I guess I can say one positive thing and I would think
      religious leaders would focus on that angle.
      > There were teachers and school officials who died shielding
      children from the gunman and some even met him face to face unarmed
      trying to deter him from killing those children.
      > To me that is supreme love.  They put their own safety aside
      save the lives of the more frail little children.  No one could
      demonstrate more love than they in those terrifying conditions. 
      > Bless all those who has to face this tragedy and may they all one
      day find peace concerning it
      > --- On Mon, 12/17/12, prometheus_973 prometheus_973@
      > From: prometheus_973 prometheus_973@
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 1:54 AM
      > Hello All,
      > I've been watching the
      > TV coverage of this tragedy
      > for a few days now. It
      > makes one wonder how
      > a mentally deranged
      > young man can do such
      > evil and to such innocent
      > children... face-to-face!
      > However, I found the
      > religious take on all
      > of it to be quite strange.
      > Some of the comments
      > in the prayers of the
      > ministers were odd.
      > One cleric said that
      > it happened in order
      > to have people to
      > question life and to
      > be able to go through
      > their own transformation.
      > Thus, it's a test!
      > One guy mentioned that
      > the children would not
      > have to experience sin.
      > "After passion comes
      > compassion."
      > I'm not sure why people
      > were praying to God and
      > talking to or beseeching
      > God when he didn't offer
      > up any protection to these
      > innocent children. But,
      > are innocent children in
      > other countries protected
      > from harm? It's like how
      > Klemp protects his eckists.
      > The Governor of CT. sounded
      > like Peter Sellers in "Being There"
      > when talking about after Winter
      > there will be Spring and growth.
      > There is belief that a grander
      > plan is afoot and that it won't
      > be revealed until you can no
      > longer speak and share and
      > this gives those left hope that
      > the promises will be fulfilled.
      > I'm thinking that Eckists
      > are probably sad, too, but
      > also think that they see it
      > as karma being karma and
      > that there is no death.
      > "What is seen is temporary
      > but what is unseen is eternal."
      > Do clerics merely repeat what
      > we already know or is it merely
      > a pep talk while reminding
      > us of what we are supposed
      > to believe? Or, do they see
      > themselves as the experts
      > who have memorized scripture,
      > dress up in special garments,
      > while we regular people are
      > the ignorant sheep meant to
      > blindly follow?
      > It is interesting to see a
      > commonality of sorts, but
      > individual choice seems to
      > take precedence as it always
      > will.
      > prometheus
    • Show all 17 messages in this topic