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6529Re: Religion, Belief, God and Such

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  • iam999freedom
    Dec 17, 2012
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      Hi Prometheus, Thanks for your insights/comments about this subject.

      A few weeks or so ago somebody (can't remember who, I think it may have been Post Eck-Con) posted on this site that he/she doesn't feel threatened anymore about admitting that God, Spirit, etc is unknown. That essentially saying that we don't know is not at all to be seen as ignorant or negative but rather as truthfull.

      I had this same insight as a kid but over the years more or less allowed myself to be brainwashed by others who claimed to have "all the answers". Not that I totally believed all of their claims but that I allowed some of what they said to influence my thinking. ie., Eckankar.

      Now I'm back to saying that I don't know and that's okay. Thanks again.


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:

      Hello All,
      The truth is we don't
      know what the Truth

      That's why religions
      have created their
      version of lies using
      embellished and
      highly edited stories.

      At first it was based
      upon a pre-science
      explanation of the
      cosmos using myth
      and superstition, yet,
      similar mythology
      is still being used
      today as though it's
      still valid. Even Eckankar
      has a Garden of Eden
      myth with an Adom
      and Ede (see Polarians).

      Whatever the Truth
      is it's subjective and
      can be experienced
      (somewhat) only via
      what seems to be the
      individual's consciousness.
      No one really knows
      for certain and that's
      why there are so
      many religions and
      so many con men.

      Basically, God, Spirit,
      Angels, etc. is still

      Perhaps humankind
      will be capable of
      learning more as
      the mind evolves.
      Maybe we, via our
      overall actions, are
      heading toward that
      evolution where we
      will naturally become
      enlightened... in
      spite of ourselves.


      etznab@ wrote:

      Here's an other thought. Maybe there is no distinction between God and
      Soul. That there are no Souls and no Gods. And that everything that
      exists, all individuals, are inherently nothing but the same ONE thing
      which, for some, is something they sacrifice by living under the
      illusion of being something less. In this case it is no less than "God"
      responsible for all good things and all evil things as a matter of
      individual choice.

      Is it really beyond the ONE existent reality to "limit itself"? Nature
      would seem to indicate otherwise.

      Yes this sounds like far out talk, but that is only the result of
      looking at it a particular way. What I am saying is that God can limit
      itself and not limit itself at the same time, because God - the true
      realization of it - exists as part of a realm devoid of time as we know

      Take human thoughts as an example of what I'm trying to get at. People
      can imagine limitation and even imagine being killed and being reborn.
      But when those are only thoughts it doesn't change the constitution and
      the makeup of the person having those thoughts. Like, I could imagine
      myself as an ant but that would only be an imagination and would not
      change the fact that I am human just having a thought of being an ant.
      So what is to say that God can't also imagine, or think, and in no way
      is God, or the ONE, changed by having thoughts.

      And then again, what is to say that people (in the greater scheme) are
      not really God identifying with creation to such an extent as to
      identify with the creation as opposed to the creator? After
      identification with creation is severed upon physical death, perhaps
      the realization of God increases and there might be something to the
      belief in various inner bodies and inner planes. If the individual
      believes and identifies with the creations there, as here.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: iam999freedom
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous

      Sent: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:26 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings

      Hi, there is an issue that keeps cropping up and troubles me when I
      think of the Newton shootings and all the other tragedies in this world.

      When God,(if there is such a being) created this world, It obviously
      knew of the negative choices that people would make like the Newtown
      shootings, murder, rape, incest, child prostitution, the list goes on
      and on. Human free choice and perhaps subsequent karma has been used to
      explain away God's responsibilty for these hideous events.

      However, if the director of a play (God) creates characters in the play
      (humans) that It knows will make negative choices (because that's one
      of the main ways a human learns) does that not make God at least
      indirectly responsible for these tragedies? Just a thought that leads
      me to thinks:
      1. Maybe God is not as Loving as we are lead to believe.
      2. I have trouble believing in or wanting to follow such a Being.

      Any thoughts from others?


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
      jepfeiffer@ wrote:

      Well I guess I can say one positive thing and I would think
      religious leaders would focus on that angle.
      There were teachers and school officials who died shielding
      children from the gunman and some even met him face to face unarmed
      trying to deter him from killing those children.
      To me that is supreme love.  They put their own safety aside to
      save the lives of the more frail little children.  No one could
      demonstrate more love than they in those terrifying conditions. 
      Bless all those who has to face this tragedy and may they all one
      day find peace concerning it

      --- On Mon, 12/17/12, prometheus_973 prometheus_973@

      From: prometheus_973 prometheus_973@
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 1:54 AM


      Hello All,
      I've been watching the
      TV coverage of this tragedy
      for a few days now. It
      makes one wonder how
      a mentally deranged
      young man can do such
      evil and to such innocent
      children... face-to-face!

      However, I found the
      religious take on all
      of it to be quite strange.
      Some of the comments
      in the prayers of the
      ministers were odd.

      One cleric said that
      it happened in order
      to have people to
      question life and to
      be able to go through
      their own transformation.
      Thus, it's a test!

      One guy mentioned that
      the children would not
      have to experience sin.

      "After passion comes

      I'm not sure why people
      were praying to God and
      talking to or beseeching
      God when he didn't offer
      up any protection to these
      innocent children. But,
      are innocent children in
      other countries protected
      from harm? It's like how
      Klemp protects his eckists.

      The Governor of CT. sounded
      like Peter Sellers in "Being There"
      when talking about after Winter
      there will be Spring and growth.

      There is belief that a grander
      plan is afoot and that it won't
      be revealed until you can no
      longer speak and share and
      this gives those left hope that
      the promises will be fulfilled.

      I'm thinking that Eckists
      are probably sad, too, but
      also think that they see it
      as karma being karma and
      that there is no death.

      "What is seen is temporary
      but what is unseen is eternal."

      Do clerics merely repeat what
      we already know or is it merely
      a pep talk while reminding
      us of what we are supposed
      to believe? Or, do they see
      themselves as the experts
      who have memorized scripture,
      dress up in special garments,
      while we regular people are
      the ignorant sheep meant to
      blindly follow?

      It is interesting to see a
      commonality of sorts, but
      individual choice seems to
      take precedence as it always

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