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6514Re: Klemp Chastises H.I.s About "Guidelines"

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  • prometheus_973
    Dec 15, 2012
      Hello Russ, Janice, and All,
      The initiation eligibility list
      is generated on eckists
      after they have completed
      so many years and/or
      requirements as members
      in good standing. Delays
      in payment of membership
      fees (i.e. breaks) or rest
      periods will affect people's
      names from appearing
      on the eligibility list.

      Sometimes Eckists can call
      Membership Services with
      concern that they've been
      passed over. If, in fact, they've
      waited longer than normal
      and there are No red flags
      in their file sometimes the
      ESC will generate a pink
      slip without RESA input.
      Plus, it always helps to
      know people in high places.
      I suggested doing this to
      a 4th who had been waiting
      longer than normal and
      within a month or so she
      got her pink slip. Funny!
      BTW- I swore her to secrecy
      and Not to mention my name!

      Many H.I.s don't know about
      how the EK Initiation system
      really works because it's very
      secretive. If anyone shared this
      info they would be banned from
      holding any Satsang positions,
      receiving any more initiations,
      and have their file at the ESC
      red flagged. [Klemp generally
      states that those EKists divulging
      secrets will have their spiritual
      growth halted, but doesn't say
      how it's done].

      In any case, I've known people
      who suspected their files were
      red flagged and was told that
      when calling into the ESC to
      renew their membership that
      when their data came up that
      there was a long pause and
      the tone of voice of the staffer
      changed.

      Eckists should know that they
      are under scrutiny at all times
      and certain innocent comments
      or behaviour will stand out to
      those judging and looking to
      find fault. The devil is in the
      details. For Eckists to know
      and follow the current Guidelines,
      the Four Zoas, to volunteer
      and always sound like an EK
      Brochure is still not enough.
      They need to make friendships
      with the H.I.s in their region,
      with their RESA, and with those
      at the ESC via seminars. One
      has to psyche themselves
      into seeing all of the flawed,
      ego driven, power hungry
      H.I.s as their friend whether
      it's true or not. And, you still
      have to watch what you say.

      An example of watching what
      you say is to never bring up
      Darwin's name. You don't know
      whether or not someone within
      earshot is going to tell the RESA
      about this. There are RESA spys
      and members of the RESA's
      secret police everywhere.
      They might be in "official" roles
      but they are used in the same
      way. And, don't be talking about
      and promoting Metaphysics,
      psyche readings, etc. around
      Eckists or selling some product,
      especially, at the EK Center!
      This will get one's next initiation
      delayed as well.

      As I stated before, those
      EKists involved with charting
      their ancestry are taking
      a chance on being passed
      over too. Eckists believe in
      reincarnation and Soul, thus,
      tracing ancestry and getting
      caught up with one's "heritage"
      is seen as a moot point, a
      distraction, and not being
      well grounded in the ECK
      teachings. It's seen as a
      detriment and will prevent
      one from "advancing" to that
      next coveted EK initiation.

      The initiation game, whether
      Eckists want to admit to it
      or not, is the most powerful
      driving force within Eckankar.

      Prometheus

      Russ wrote:
      Janice,

      I was an HI for 12 years and this is my last year as a dues paying member.

      I never knew there was local area input to esc concerning initiations and I am shocked to learn it was institutionalized, as you say. I guess I wasn't in the 'in-crowd'.

      That said, I have mixed feeling concerning these initiations. I approached them with reverence and I always felt up-lifted after them, for some time. I really felt changed.

      On the other hand, I think that it was the group consciousness and my expectations that had a hand in my experience. I am so suggestible.

      I respect your attitude and actions when you learned how this process was conducted. I don't know I would have been so quick to give it all up because I was a fraidy cat. Just part of my personal history when it comes to leaving what I know.

      Later,
      Russ




      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      >
      > Thanks again Prometheus,
       
      > The very fact that this resa thought I was asking about my own initiations and he had to insist that he had said nothing about me was proof that what I had been told,  was in fact true.  I didn't ask about my own and I said nothing about anything he might have said.  I was asking about how all initiations came about.  Yes, the initial info I got was the computer generated the list and  then the locals were questioned.
      >  
      > For the longest time I did consider writing Minneapolis about my experiences.  The reason I finally decided against it was, I thought it would only help eckankar sharpen it's con game by telling them about it's weaknesses.  Why help people become better liars and cheaters?
      >  
      > It never occurred to me to try and take action about the resa screaming at me.  He was clearly out of control.  When I am dealing with a person whose behavior is so erratic, I just can't take their opinions seriously.  Besides, it was just more proof that the whole org ran like a circus filled with clowns and the bigger the nut job, the more likely they would advance.  I don't think klemp himself would give me a straight answer for what I ask and most likely if I got one at all, it wouldn't be an intelligent one.
      >  
      > According to what you are saying even HI's didn't know the truth about initiations. I take it only those in some kind of local leadership roles were asked about individuals.
      >  
      > After hearing what  you say, I feel very lucky that I found out as early as I did.  It must be a closely guarded secret. Until now, I assumed that all HI's did know and I couldn't understand why the lies about it kept being perpetuated down. 
      >  
      > You have given me just what I needed to know.  Most eckist remain in the dark no matter how long they are in.  Wow, that's a mind blower.  You have to admit, it is quite an ingenious con.  I do appreciate your frank answer. 
      >  
      > As always, thanks for all you give.
      >  

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Janice,
      > Most H.I.s have no idea
      > how the EK Initiation
      > process works. It's sad
      > because there are some
      > really nice and gentile
      > chelas who have been
      > passed over on the 5th.
      > Some died as 4ths when
      > they should have had
      > some happiness, peace
      > of mind, and contentment
      > by receiving that 5th.
      > I've know several eckists
      > where this has happened.
      > It was no big deal to give
      > them their 5th initiation,
      > but some RESAs are mean-
      > spirited, lack empathy,
      > and are petty. They've
      > gotten caught up in HK's
      > game. All Eckists should
      > get the 5th after no more
      > than 20 years, especially,
      > when they participate
      > and are kept current on
      > their membership. However,
      > that's not the way the
      > power trip is played by
      > some RESAs.
      >
      > I hate to admit this but
      > I helped the RESA when
      > asked about people. I
      > was quizzed about those
      > up for, usually, the 5th
      > and 6th initiation. I was
      > asked about what the EKist
      > said, how they acted and
      > conducted themselves
      > and any unusual things
      > that I noticed about
      > their behavior or performance.
      > And then I was asked for
      > my opinion. Unfortunately
      > my replies, I know, had
      > some initiations delayed
      > for these people and I
      > regret that I got caught
      > up in this petty mind game.
      > Some of these people are
      > still H.I.s and have no idea
      > why they had to wait so
      > long for their 5th or 6th.
      > Many probably think that
      > the Mahanta was testing
      > them! LOL! On the other
      > hand maybe some of them,
      > by now, have been asked
      > to evaluate people too.
      > I wonder if they put two
      > and two together and
      > figured it out, unless,
      > they were told why like
      > I had been told.
      >
      > Why, though, should
      > Klemp have a system
      > for initiations that judges
      > and punishes Eckists
      > based upon our evaluations?
      > Where's that Inner Knowingness
      > of the Mahanta?
      >
      > Besides, a 5th is no big
      > deal, and it's not like one
      > becomes a cleric automatically
      > with a 5th. Really, being
      > an 5th is no more being
      > an official representative
      > of Eckankar than is a 4th.
      >
      > Yes, most Eckists have
      > no idea that a computer
      > generated eligibility list
      > is sent to the RESA by the
      > ESC and that phone calls
      > are made asking questions
      > where subjective answers
      > are given and that the RESA
      > uses these to either approve
      > and give a recommendation
      > for initiation or doesn't.
      > However, I will say that
      > any "No" has to have an
      > valid reason. The ESC
      > usually follows the RESAs'
      > recommendations.
      >
      > BTW- Janice, I think that
      > your RESA approved of
      > your initiation because
      > he felt guilty for having
      > yelled at you, plus, you
      > could have reported him
      > to the ESC. Maybe the
      > initiation approval was
      > meant to appease you?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > Thank you very much Prometheus for your encouragement.
      >
      > Can you tell me how an eckist can view an initiation as sacred like the teachings say it is if it is prompted by the recommendations of a local area person?
      >
      > That was what angered me so much. The teachings described it as something that was prompted by the mahanta when the individual was ready. To find it was based on the local people's personal opinions of an individual was about the most crushing thing I ever learned. After the stupid crap I had witnessed, the idea that the local gossip machine was what would or would not get me an initiation was more than I could tolerate. It also in my eyes, rendered those initiations totally useless.
      >
      > In short, why do HI's continue to value initiations after learning how they come about and why perpetrate it on others knowing it is a lot of whoey?
      >
      > I learned it by accident. It was a slip of the tongue by an HI. He was afraid of the effect his slip would have on himself. When I questioned the resa, I didn't use his name at all.
      >
      > The resa I questioned I had known before he was our area resa. At first he seemed to think I was asking about my own initiations. He resonded by sayng he had said nothing concerning me. I had to repeat the question several times. He then told me he could not discuss that subject once he realized what I was asking. I told him it was very important to me and I needed an answer. At all times I was respectful. It was then he began yelling about my inability to get along with others. Duh, where did this come from. When I asked a third time, his yelling became screaming as he repeated his comments about me. At this point, I told him that I had heard all I needed to know. I thanked him for his time and hung up.
      >
      > It was past my renewal date but with in a few days that scanky pink slip showed up. It really teed me off to see it. A couple of days later, the eck person called to inquire about my getting one. I told no one about getting it so it appeared I got it cuz they would rather give an initiation than lose one dues paying member and his purpose was to incourage me to go for it. I was also performing and paying for a service the local area really needed. I wondered if that was part of it.
      >
      > When I first left, I thought about writing Minneapolis and telling them what I thought about all of it. I some how knew they didn't care how angry I was and there could be repurcussions. I decided that if the only info Minneapolis got was from the locals then my continued silence was the best response. I was sure the eckist who called conveyed my sentiments about the pinks slip and that insult to their "sacred" practices would probably gall any steadfast eckist. It was enough.
      >
      > Everything I have said during my postings about my experiences with eckankar are true to the best of my ability. A screaming resa is not an impressive thing and I didn't feel intimidated. The game was over. That's how I left.
      >
      > I do not understand how an HI can continue to value an initiation based on local opinion. If you can put it into words for me, I would appreciate it. I would like to see it from an HI position to make sense of it. Thanks so much.
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Janice,
      > Thanks for the interesting
      > reply and the sharing of
      > insights and experiences.
      > I really really enjoyed it
      > all.
      >
      > The reason why someone
      > knew you received your
      > pink slip is because the
      > RESA gets an initiation
      > eligibility list where he/
      > she will mark yea/nay
      > for an initiation. When
      > the yea is checked the
      > ESC (membership services)
      > will more than likely issue
      > the pink slip for the initiation.
      > Or, the file has been red
      > flagged for some reason.
      > Klemp, I'm told, will put
      > a temporary hold on higher
      > initiations. Maybe it's due
      > to pending requirements
      > for training/retraining.
      > The ESC will notify the
      > RESA when the pink slip
      > is sent.
      >
      > Most Eckists don't know
      > how the initiation process
      > works.
      >
      > The RESA has a membership
      > list generated by the ESC
      > for all those EKists in their
      > region and it will show
      > initiation level, one's status
      > and date of membership
      > among other info. If a
      > new person sends in a
      > membership form to the
      > ESC from anywhere in
      > the RESA's region the RESA
      > will be notified of who
      > they are and their mailing
      > address.
      >
      > I was glad Ford Johnson
      > wrote his book and that
      > I was told about it by an
      > Eckist who is still an H.I.
      > The Irony is that he was
      > doing Public Information
      > and was quite the gossip.
      >
      > I always was the skeptic
      > and had trouble with a lot
      > of what I saw and experienced
      > around H.I.s.
      >
      > When I was a lower initiate
      > I knew that many H.I.s weren't
      > spiritual nor anywhere close
      > to being enlightened. There
      > were too many contradictions,
      > restrictions, and hypocrisy.
      > Once you're an EK member
      > the next step is to get you
      > to become a volunteer on
      > HK's sales team.
      >
      > I always wondered how
      > was there an "inner" connection
      > to the Mahanta if H.I.s
      > were still smoking and
      > drinking alcohol, but
      > getting promoted with
      > more initiations? I knew
      > of two 5ths who smoked
      > and drank and got pink
      > slips for the 6th. It's clear
      > that Klemp knows nothing
      > unless informed via phone
      > or snailmail... email now!
      >
      > Yes, Janice, we were the
      > ones awakened to the Truth
      > while all of those "Higher"
      > (pretend) Initiates are still
      > sleeping. Many H.I.s have
      > become very skilled at
      > regurgitating the PR and
      > at facilitating and public
      > speaking. But, H.I.s have
      > no idea of what it's like
      > to be Free thinkers and
      > free of religion and of the
      > EK Hierarchy. They think
      > that their "spiritual experiences"
      > are unique when these
      > are common and similar
      > experiences that all religious
      > seekers have had... even
      > Christians!
      >
      > Yes, we needed Eckankar
      > in order to fill a void and
      > to learn some important
      > lessons about ourselves
      > and about religion in general.
      >
      > IMO, Those who left
      > Eckankar but still have
      > a need for religion, haven't
      > really learned that they
      > will never find answers
      > via a group consciousness
      > or via a guru/master.
      > True, it is nice to know
      > people of like mind and
      > to share things, but this
      > can be a bad thing as well
      > if we become too attached
      > or lazy and want to play
      > follow the leader again.
      >
      > It all comes down to one's
      > private and personal experiences
      > and inner revelations with
      > oneSelf and with whatever
      > catalyst of "divine" creation.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Janice wrote:
      > I think the people of eckankar are giving such a bad impression of eckankar that it is a real turn off. So now it sounds like klemp is trying to regulate his people into being better representatives of eckankar. I can't see it happening. The hierarchy is what causes all the arrogance and is what causes a turn off for new people.
      >
      > Personally, I had no desire to be like what I saw. To see adult people act like little children and call themselves spiritually advanced is sickening enough but to find out that these same ill mannered people are allowed to pass judgments on you which decides whether or not you get an initiation is about as screwed up as you can get. Not at any time did I see anyone handle these things well right up to the area resa who yelled at me when I started asking the questions about initiations.
      >
      > I finally had to admit to myself how pathetic the whole set up was. I just broke contact. I was told by the one eckist I did happen upon after I left, that questions were being asked about me. I told that person that I would prefer that he didn't discuss our meeting and if he were asked to let it be known that I did not want anymore attention from any eckist at all.
      >
      > Shortly after that, I got a pink slip for an initiation which I guess was to woo me back into the fold. It went in the trash. This same person I had met asked me about the pink slip by phone. I told him I wouldn't use it for toilet paper even.
      >
      > How is it that everyone knows what is going on with an individual when it is supposed to be between the person and the mahanta? The word gets passed upstairs about who is being a good little eckist but when it comes right down to it, getting my dues was more important than anything else. From all appearances it seems the way to get ahead in eckankar was either to play the stupid gossip games or to bully your way up the ladder. Neither of these is desirable in my opinion but it did explain why the old folk try to bully the new folk. Apparently, being able to whip other people into submission is a very desirable tool in the eyes of the org. That is what is so sick about eckankar. You either become a sheep or a wolf. I wouldn't be either.
      >
      > That is why I could not adjust to eckankar. Seeing it was a freeing experience for me. It also destroyed what I had felt about the teachings. I threw away all eckankar material. I wouldn't even donate the books for fear that I might be an instrument to hook others. Stolen works and irresponsible, immature people are the concepts I walked away with about eckankar. Much later when I read Ford Johnson's book, I realized it went all the way to the top. I considered myself lucky that I got out when I did.
      >
      > The chelas of eckankar are well meaning but they have become so blind to the lies that they can not see they are serving a money driven org and that is all they are serving. I feel pity for them. A lot of them will never see the truth in this life time. I wonder how shocking it must be to a soul who has spent a good part of their life working for eckankar to pass over and have to face at that point the lies.
      >
      > Eckankar speaks of waking up to the truth. Yet it is they who are in a trance like stupor. I am a better person I think for having experienced eckankar but not because of what it taught me. I learned never to let another person or org define me as a spiritual being. Although belonging to a group of like individuals is a comforting thing for sure, each of us as individuals are soley responsible for our own growth. In short I have become a more responsible person after seeing where blind obedience leads.
      >
      > I view eckankar as something I needed to experience to become a responsible individual. No savior is coming to save me from myself and no master can show me the way. Instead of being a daunting task, I see it as liberating to know I am in control of my own fate. With out eckankar, I would not have been able to see this.
      >
      > I dislike the idea that others might get suckered into eckankar very much. But maybe it has a necessary purpose to show those who are really ready for spiritual freedom by first experiencing their brand of spiritual bondage. And so all my enlightened ex-eckist friends, I hope all of you can feel that you are the lucky ones for having experienced the bonds and having broken them of your own accord. Xcuse me if I sound like an ego ridden eckist but I think that is quiet a lot to learn in a lifetime.
      >
      > I see us all ex-eckist as the lucky ones. Well, that is what goes through my mind when I think of my experience with eckankar. I feel lucky because I was there and I did walk away of my own free will.
      >
      > Eckankar can damn me all it will. It has no hold on me. It's even funny that they would do that. They make a good force for their kal. Holding people in spiritual slavery can not be a positive thing. Wrapped in their own blind slavery, I guess they would need to think I am damned. It is inconceivable that getting out could lead to better things.
      >
      > Thank you all for being part of my journey. You've added much to my life by reinforcing what I did experience myself. Gifts to my life, you have become with your knowledge and I do hope all of you know how valuable you all are in helping to dispel the evil of cults like eckankar. That is a lot higher function than serving some crappy money master. I do hope you all can appreciate yourselves as the real way showers that eckankar once told you that you were. Well, now you are.
      >
      > Blessings to all of you.
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Janice, Russ and All,
      > > Yes, some EK Volunteers
      > > in Satsang Society "settler"
      > > and "explorer" positions at
      > > the EK Centers would trip
      > > over their egos and go on
      > > power trips. Many seemed
      > > cliquish and would huddle
      > > together. Then, again, some
      > > weren't all that friendly or
      > > were very introverted and
      > > shy. I'd encourage everyone,
      > > including the clerics, to
      > > greet and talk to all of the
      > > new or seldom seen faces
      > > that showed up. Many
      > > only saw other Eckists at
      > > the monthly EWS and this
      > > was a time to catch up on
      > > things. This is why I'd
      > > suggest going to lunch
      > > after the EWS and socializing.
      > >
      > > Many Eckists are Introverts.
      > > True? I think so!
      > >
      > > Klemp's volunteer duties
      > > and requirements for Eckists
      > > means that they must take
      > > on extroverted roles in
      > > order to become H.I.s.
      > > Eckists must force themselves,
      > > against their innate natures,
      > > to become extroverted and
      > > egocentric. These leadership
      > > requirements create conflict,
      > > stress, and a form of schizophrenia.
      > > Thus, this imbalance that
      > > Klemp has created and
      > > reenforces aids him in
      > > the brainwashing of his
      > > flock to have programmed
      > > religious faith, beliefs, and
      > > mystical experiences. But,
      > > this has its toll and is why
      > > many long-time H.I.s choose
      > > to reject Klemp's Guidelines
      > > and his anal control tactics.
      > >
      > > Sometimes, at special
      > > harji potlucks, H.I. meetings,
      > > and mini retreats the
      > > long-time H.I.s, former
      > > RESAs, the RESA, and Board
      > > members would gather
      > > around and gossip about
      > > those absent or present.
      > > Only, it wasn't seen as
      > > gossip but rationalized
      > > as more of an evaluative/
      > > investigative discussion
      > > for possible initiation
      > > recommendation or for
      > > a Satsang position appointment.
      > > They wanted to know,
      > > from sources who knew
      > > them, if there were problems
      > > with these EKists and, if
      > > so, what the specific details
      > > were. It was all ego driven
      > > and subjective because we
      > > were all volunteers and
      > > had family and personal
      > > lives too. But, it did weed
      > > out those who weren't as
      > > well indoctrinated....
      > > supposedly. But, HK's eck
      > > crap (busy work) was pretty
      > > much always a waste of
      > > time so, in the long run,
      > > enthusiasm was probably
      > > more important than acting
      > > the part. The Satsang positions
      > > and duties kept people
      > > busy, gave them a purpose
      > > and made them feel good,
      > > although, very stressed out.
      > >
      > > The Initiation game has made
      > > Eckists struggle with denying
      > > how much more they want of
      > > this magical, imaginary, elixir.
      > >
      > > Janice, that was crazy, too,
      > > that an ESA told you that the
      > > people at the EK Center were
      > > crazy. That just isn't done
      > > and is part of HK's agenda
      > > of Silence and retraining.
      > >
      > > There's that old Buddha quote
      > > that Eckists sing and talk about
      > > (but don't attribute to Buddha)
      > > and this is supposed to keep
      > > ECKists quiet or else they will
      > > sometimes get reported:
      > > "Is it true, necessary, or kind;
      > > this I ask myself before I
      > > speak my mind." Interestingly,
      > > following this criteria is very
      > > subjective and could or would
      > > Not, necessarily, stifle most
      > > conservations.
      > >
      > > "It's a beautiful day!" This
      > > may be "true" for you and
      > > for most people but not
      > > not for all people. And, is
      > > it "necessary" to exclaim
      > > this? And, is it "kind" to say
      > > this within earshot of people
      > > who aren't feeling well or
      > > who can't enjoy the day?
      > > Yet, it's used by Klemp
      > > to keep the critics of his
      > > policies and of his H.I.s
      > > to a minimum.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Russ Rodnick wrote:
      > > You've seen the way things are and it seemed odd to me too. Especially
      > > considering that Harold and Paul both spoke out against gossip publicly as a
      > > very harmful activity. As I mentioned I have attended classes in a few states
      > > over my 30 plus years as an eck chela and many good people have been turned off
      > > by the antics and power trippers at the centers. I always thought it was my job
      > > to remain aloof from negativity and seek out people I could relate to. It's been
      > > very clear to me that we all of us have struggled with our human nature but
      > > rather than share this very human reality and how we have perhaps learned to
      > > handle it eckists retreat into a front or veneer of divine love.
      > >
      > > Anyway it's one of the reasons I left. I've always craved 'real' sincere
      > > communication and didn't find too many willing people at the eck centers.
      > >
      > > Good to be away from it.
      > >
      > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > >
      > > I always felt turned off by the gossip and back biting that I saw right from the
      > > beginning. I couldn't help but think "where is the Love". But I was willing to
      > > think it was my own lack of understanding that was the problem because certainly
      > > spiritually advanced people could not be unloving. They would say awful things
      > > about each other and then talk quietly to each other at the beginning of hu
      > > sings and such like they were all good buddies. I am a loyal type person to
      > > those who are my friends and those I think well of. I could not understand
      > > these things coming from so called well developed people. I even think a male
      > > that introduced me to eckankar might have been feeding them gossip about me at
      > > times although I don't know that to be a fact. Also, some of the other females
      > > would ask blatant personal questions to me right in the middle of a group. I
      > > got some pretty stern looks when I told one that I didn't think that was any of
      > > her business. Over all those people had no respect for any ones privacy and I
      > > thought the way they slammed each other behind each others backs was very
      > > disrespectful. I can only sum it up by saying they came across as very phony. I
      > > could not form friendships with any of them. It was what I read that held me in
      > > eckankar. The quality of the people in the center was terrible. It bothered me
      > > so bad that I sought a spiritual session. I told the adviser what I was
      > > thinking. Although she was kind to me, her answer for me, was in itself
      > > shocking. She said she didn't go to the center because they were all crazy and
      > > she preferred not to be involved with their activities. It only made me feel
      > > more confused as a fairly new person. I would perform tasks anytime I was asked
      > > but I started avoiding the center also. Finally, seeing the truth about the
      > > teachings was enough to cause me to want to walk away. I decided that being a
      > > long term eckist robbed people of any sense of discretion. it seems they open
      > > their mouths and let whatever is going on between their two ears fly out no
      > > matter who it was about. Gossip collectors and gossip spreaders seemed to be
      > > what they were. It was crazy; all of it.
      > >
      > > Russ wrote:
      > > I was in three states and two of three state spiritual services directors were
      > > fascist about the guidelines. One of them inherited a sum of money that set him
      > > up in business and I always thought his ability to donate 5 figures was what
      > > made him so popular in the eck community.
      > >
      > > There ws such little love and tolerance toward one another and a strong sense of
      > > self importance toward what we were doing. The face of love and smiling was
      > > present, but not a real connection, which in the end is why I left, among other
      > > things.
      > >
      > > Russ
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
      > > What has me ROFLMAO is
      > > that Klemp has enough of
      > > a problem that he used it
      > > in the ASK The MASTER
      > > section of the H.I. Letter!
      > > And, it was the only question!
      > > They had, supposedly, an
      > > H.I. write-in and point out
      > > the problem. No name given.
      > >
      > > I remember when I had
      > > to deal with some older
      > > H.I.s (former RESAs) in
      > > coordinator and director
      > > positions and it was
      > > impossible to get this
      > > one to follow the Guidelines
      > > on EK Worship Services
      > > (EWS). Many long-time
      > > H.I.s really resist H.K.'s
      > > Guidelines and my
      > > RESA turned a blind-
      > > eye to it all. We had
      > > so many former RESAs
      > > in volunteer positions
      > > that it was impossible
      > > to get them on the
      > > same page and to follow
      > > procedures. I think
      > > that some were just
      > > burned out and tired
      > > of Klemp's B.S. but
      > > didn't want to leave.
      > > Maybe they had too
      > > many friendships to
      > > lose. Plus, let's face
      > > it. A lot of these people
      > > are losers in the real
      > > world but are big shots
      > > in Eckankar. Those
      > > Higher Initiations are
      > > a big deal to the ego!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
      > > It is so really boring when you look at it, the one man show with his clones. I
      > > don't really get why the H.I.'s don't just implode. The klempster has nothing to
      > > offer. Then again, true believers are just blobs of beliefs that become brittle
      > > over time, concentrated self-delusion, and yes a lot of fear and insecurity and
      > > even pent up rage. H.I. stands for Higher Idiot. :)
      > >
      > > Non ;)
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > In the Dec. 2012 H.I.
      > > > Letter I've read that
      > > > Klemp still needs to
      > > > update his Guidelines
      > > > for the H.I.s in the
      > > > field and chastise
      > > > those who are slow
      > > > to get with the program.
      > > >
      > > > Many long-time H.I.s
      > > > want the freedom
      > > > of Soul to be more
      > > > individualistic,
      > > > spontaneous, and
      > > > creative by thinking
      > > > they (Soul) can operate
      > > > outside-of-the-box,
      > > > thus, being channels
      > > > for the ECK. Klemp
      > > > has previously stated
      > > > that he's imperfect,
      > > > but that's not the case
      > > > with the ECK, correct?
      > > >
      > > > Why, then, shouldn't
      > > > their current (Present)
      > > > Inner EK Guidance be
      > > > followed versus that
      > > > of outer set-in-stone
      > > > ESC Guidelines printed
      > > > in the Past and approved
      > > > by a committee of imperfect
      > > > people on a plane ruled
      > > > by the KAL?
      > > >
      > > > H.I.s still haven't learned
      > > > that freedom of expression
      > > > doesn't work in Klemp's
      > > > version of ECKankar.
      > > > It's a hierarchy where
      > > > everything is spelled
      > > > out and controlled
      > > > by him and his secret
      > > > RESA police, plus, all
      > > > field work must be
      > > > approved via the
      > > > current Guidelines.
      > > >
      > > > Many inexperienced
      > > > EKists like the idea of
      > > > being told how to do
      > > > this or that and what
      > > > approved books to use
      > > > and what to say and
      > > > other details to make
      > > > the promotion of
      > > > Eckankar easier.
      > > >
      > > > But the real point the
      > > > ESC (Klemp) is making
      > > > is to have EK PR more
      > > > consistent and cookie
      > > > cutter looking/sounding
      > > > for the public.
      > > >
      > > > Plus, the EK Guidelines
      > > > are like following a
      > > > recipe set-in-stone
      > > > that disregards individual
      > > > or regional tastes and
      > > > disallows any additions
      > > > or omissions of other
      > > > ingredients, methods,
      > > > and/or spices.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp's foretold admonishments
      > > > are about H.I.s resisting
      > > > change. He says they "rock
      > > > the boat" out of "fear" and
      > > > that "it's all about fear."
      > > > Also, "they huddle in packs"
      > > > and "reinforce in each other
      > > > a group's opposition to
      > > > anything new." Strange
      > > > that Klemp's H.I.s are
      > > > subject to fear since he's
      > > > supposed to protect them!
      > > > This is how the KAL works.
      > > > Klemp is his agent.
      > > >
      > > > However, the real 'change'
      > > > that H.I.s resist is in rejecting
      > > > Klemp's nonsense and
      > > > heavy handed control tactics.
      > > > Many H.I.s, however, chose
      > > > the Freedom of Soul versus
      > > > being bound to dogma.
      > > > HK side-steps delivering
      > > > on his promises of protection
      > > > and never has anything
      > > > profound to share. And,
      > > > where are those Higher
      > > > Initiations that are, supposedly,
      > > > yardsticks in measuring
      > > > Consciousness and Spiritual
      > > > Growth? Klemp is playing
      > > > the long-con and is, thus,
      > > > stingy and self-serving.
      > > >
      > > > Harold goes on to say that
      > > > these H.I.s are "obstructions
      > > > on the path to God instead
      > > > of being stepping stones."
      > > > Apparently, being creative
      > > > and spontaneous and
      > > > following "Inner Nudges"
      > > > and/or "Signs" are not
      > > > permitted if it conflicts
      > > > with the LEM's outer,
      > > > Physical (1st) Plane, Guidelines!
      > > >
      > > > The LEM states that, "We
      > > > are here to learn." However,
      > > > what is it that Klemp "learns"
      > > > from others since he never
      > > > listens? He's the Top goD
      > > > and doesn't partake in
      > > > two-way dialogues with
      > > > those under his authority.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp sounds quite intolerant
      > > > and unloving as he continues
      > > > to chastise his H.I.s. "They
      > > > believe that if they sit still
      > > > and breathe only enough to
      > > > sustain life that they may
      > > > well dodge the lightning
      > > > strikes of irksome change."
      > > > Is that a threat? HK sounds
      > > > like KAL! However, by doing
      > > > Klemp's bidding do ECKists
      > > > really avoid "lightning strikes?"
      > > > Don't EKists still die of all
      > > > sorts of illnesses and situations
      > > > that could have be averted
      > > > if they had gotten proper
      > > > and immediate care? Sure!
      > > > Therefore, Klemp can't protect
      > > > ECKists and his veiled threats
      > > > are meaningless... unless
      > > > you've given this Black
      > > > Magician power over you!
      > > >
      > > > But, it seems that HK
      > > > has something else stuck
      > > > in his craw. It seems to
      > > > me that Klemp doesn't
      > > > like his 7ths just sitting
      > > > still and Contemplating
      > > > or HUing, and enjoying
      > > > life. But why shouldn't
      > > > they take it easy after
      > > > 40 years of doing PR
      > > > work for Eckankar!
      > > >
      > > > So, what does Klemp
      > > > the All compassionate,
      > > > loving, positive, and
      > > > empathetic icon of EK
      > > > conclude?
      > > >
      > > > "An H.I. who blatantly
      > > > refuses to adhere to
      > > > the ECK Guidelines
      > > > needs to be addressed
      > > > on the issues." Hmmmm.
      > > > I wonder what that
      > > > really means? Well,
      > > > unless you're already
      > > > a 7th you can kiss that
      > > > next initiation good-bye
      > > > for like 10-20 years!
      > > >
      > > > Klemp continues to say,
      > > > "These are big stakes!
      > > > Continued refusal means
      > > > it's time for a replacement
      > > > to step in. A change is
      > > > due. Change. isn't it
      > > > funny how we have come
      > > > full circle?" No! It's not
      > > > really funny. Klemp
      > > > abuses the concept
      > > > of "change" and makes
      > > > it into a misnomer.
      > > >
      > > > What "changes" are there
      > > > in Eckankar? The same
      > > > old things are merely
      > > > revisited, updated, dusted
      > > > off and made to seem
      > > > "new." It's all a facade,
      > > > smoke and mirrors, and
      > > > a game of pretend by
      > > > creating brightly colored
      > > > straws to grab at and
      > > > cling to when drowning.
      > > >
      > > > Too bad that EKists are
      > > > so deluded and needy
      > > > and aren't able to read
      > > > between the lines and
      > > > see the real truth behind
      > > > Klemp's words and methods.
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      >
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