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6509Re: Klemp Chastises H.I.s About "Guidelines"

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  • prometheus_973
    Dec 14, 2012
      Hello Janice,
      Thanks for the interesting
      reply and the sharing of
      insights and experiences.
      I really really enjoyed it

      The reason why someone
      knew you received your
      pink slip is because the
      RESA gets an initiation
      eligibility list where he/
      she will mark yea/nay
      for an initiation. When
      the yea is checked the
      ESC (membership services)
      will more than likely issue
      the pink slip for the initiation.
      Or, the file has been red
      flagged for some reason.
      Klemp, I'm told, will put
      a temporary hold on higher
      initiations. Maybe it's due
      to pending requirements
      for training/retraining.
      The ESC will notify the
      RESA when the pink slip
      is sent.

      Most Eckists don't know
      how the initiation process

      The RESA has a membership
      list generated by the ESC
      for all those EKists in their
      region and it will show
      initiation level, one's status
      and date of membership
      among other info. If a
      new person sends in a
      membership form to the
      ESC from anywhere in
      the RESA's region the RESA
      will be notified of who
      they are and their mailing

      I was glad Ford Johnson
      wrote his book and that
      I was told about it by an
      Eckist who is still an H.I.
      The Irony is that he was
      doing Public Information
      and was quite the gossip.

      I always was the skeptic
      and had trouble with a lot
      of what I saw and experienced
      around H.I.s.

      When I was a lower initiate
      I knew that many H.I.s weren't
      spiritual nor anywhere close
      to being enlightened. There
      were too many contradictions,
      restrictions, and hypocrisy.
      Once you're an EK member
      the next step is to get you
      to become a volunteer on
      HK's sales team.

      I always wondered how
      was there an "inner" connection
      to the Mahanta if H.I.s
      were still smoking and
      drinking alcohol, but
      getting promoted with
      more initiations? I knew
      of two 5ths who smoked
      and drank and got pink
      slips for the 6th. It's clear
      that Klemp knows nothing
      unless informed via phone
      or snailmail... email now!

      Yes, Janice, we were the
      ones awakened to the Truth
      while all of those "Higher"
      (pretend) Initiates are still
      sleeping. Many H.I.s have
      become very skilled at
      regurgitating the PR and
      at facilitating and public
      speaking. But, H.I.s have
      no idea of what it's like
      to be Free thinkers and
      free of religion and of the
      EK Hierarchy. They think
      that their "spiritual experiences"
      are unique when these
      are common and similar
      experiences that all religious
      seekers have had... even

      Yes, we needed Eckankar
      in order to fill a void and
      to learn some important
      lessons about ourselves
      and about religion in general.

      IMO, Those who left
      Eckankar but still have
      a need for religion, haven't
      really learned that they
      will never find answers
      via a group consciousness
      or via a guru/master.
      True, it is nice to know
      people of like mind and
      to share things, but this
      can be a bad thing as well
      if we become too attached
      or lazy and want to play
      follow the leader again.

      It all comes down to one's
      private and personal experiences
      and inner revelations with
      oneSelf and with whatever
      catalyst of "divine" creation.


      Janice wrote:
      I think the people of eckankar are giving such a bad impression of eckankar that it is a real turn off. So now it sounds like klemp is trying to regulate his people into being better representatives of eckankar. I can't see it happening. The hierarchy is what causes all the arrogance and is what causes a turn off for new people.

      Personally, I had no desire to be like what I saw. To see adult people act like little children and call themselves spiritually advanced is sickening enough but to find out that these same ill mannered people are allowed to pass judgments on you which decides whether or not you get an initiation is about as screwed up as you can get. Not at any time did I see anyone handle these things well right up to the area resa who yelled at me when I started asking the questions about initiations.

      I finally had to admit to myself how pathetic the whole set up was. I just broke contact. I was told by the one eckist I did happen upon after I left, that questions were being asked about me. I told that person that I would prefer that he didn't discuss our meeting and if he were asked to let it be known that I did not want anymore attention from any eckist at all.

      Shortly after that, I got a pink slip for an initiation which I guess was to woo me back into the fold. It went in the trash. This same person I had met asked me about the pink slip by phone. I told him I wouldn't use it for toilet paper even.

      How is it that everyone knows what is going on with an individual when it is supposed to be between the person and the mahanta? The word gets passed upstairs about who is being a good little eckist but when it comes right down to it, getting my dues was more important than anything else. From all appearances it seems the way to get ahead in eckankar was either to play the stupid gossip games or to bully your way up the ladder. Neither of these is desirable in my opinion but it did explain why the old folk try to bully the new folk. Apparently, being able to whip other people into submission is a very desirable tool in the eyes of the org. That is what is so sick about eckankar. You either become a sheep or a wolf. I wouldn't be either.

      That is why I could not adjust to eckankar. Seeing it was a freeing experience for me. It also destroyed what I had felt about the teachings. I threw away all eckankar material. I wouldn't even donate the books for fear that I might be an instrument to hook others. Stolen works and irresponsible, immature people are the concepts I walked away with about eckankar. Much later when I read Ford Johnson's book, I realized it went all the way to the top. I considered myself lucky that I got out when I did.

      The chelas of eckankar are well meaning but they have become so blind to the lies that they can not see they are serving a money driven org and that is all they are serving. I feel pity for them. A lot of them will never see the truth in this life time. I wonder how shocking it must be to a soul who has spent a good part of their life working for eckankar to pass over and have to face at that point the lies.

      Eckankar speaks of waking up to the truth. Yet it is they who are in a trance like stupor. I am a better person I think for having experienced eckankar but not because of what it taught me. I learned never to let another person or org define me as a spiritual being. Although belonging to a group of like individuals is a comforting thing for sure, each of us as individuals are soley responsible for our own growth. In short I have become a more responsible person after seeing where blind obedience leads.

      I view eckankar as something I needed to experience to become a responsible individual. No savior is coming to save me from myself and no master can show me the way. Instead of being a daunting task, I see it as liberating to know I am in control of my own fate. With out eckankar, I would not have been able to see this.

      I dislike the idea that others might get suckered into eckankar very much. But maybe it has a necessary purpose to show those who are really ready for spiritual freedom by first experiencing their brand of spiritual bondage. And so all my enlightened ex-eckist friends, I hope all of you can feel that you are the lucky ones for having experienced the bonds and having broken them of your own accord. Xcuse me if I sound like an ego ridden eckist but I think that is quiet a lot to learn in a lifetime.

      I see us all ex-eckist as the lucky ones. Well, that is what goes through my mind when I think of my experience with eckankar. I feel lucky because I was there and I did walk away of my own free will.

      Eckankar can damn me all it will. It has no hold on me. It's even funny that they would do that. They make a good force for their kal. Holding people in spiritual slavery can not be a positive thing. Wrapped in their own blind slavery, I guess they would need to think I am damned. It is inconceivable that getting out could lead to better things.

      Thank you all for being part of my journey. You've added much to my life by reinforcing what I did experience myself. Gifts to my life, you have become with your knowledge and I do hope all of you know how valuable you all are in helping to dispel the evil of cults like eckankar. That is a lot higher function than serving some crappy money master. I do hope you all can appreciate yourselves as the real way showers that eckankar once told you that you were. Well, now you are.

      Blessings to all of you.

      prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Janice, Russ and All,
      > Yes, some EK Volunteers
      > in Satsang Society "settler"
      > and "explorer" positions at
      > the EK Centers would trip
      > over their egos and go on
      > power trips. Many seemed
      > cliquish and would huddle
      > together. Then, again, some
      > weren't all that friendly or
      > were very introverted and
      > shy. I'd encourage everyone,
      > including the clerics, to
      > greet and talk to all of the
      > new or seldom seen faces
      > that showed up. Many
      > only saw other Eckists at
      > the monthly EWS and this
      > was a time to catch up on
      > things. This is why I'd
      > suggest going to lunch
      > after the EWS and socializing.
      > Many Eckists are Introverts.
      > True? I think so!
      > Klemp's volunteer duties
      > and requirements for Eckists
      > means that they must take
      > on extroverted roles in
      > order to become H.I.s.
      > Eckists must force themselves,
      > against their innate natures,
      > to become extroverted and
      > egocentric. These leadership
      > requirements create conflict,
      > stress, and a form of schizophrenia.
      > Thus, this imbalance that
      > Klemp has created and
      > reenforces aids him in
      > the brainwashing of his
      > flock to have programmed
      > religious faith, beliefs, and
      > mystical experiences. But,
      > this has its toll and is why
      > many long-time H.I.s choose
      > to reject Klemp's Guidelines
      > and his anal control tactics.
      > Sometimes, at special
      > harji potlucks, H.I. meetings,
      > and mini retreats the
      > long-time H.I.s, former
      > RESAs, the RESA, and Board
      > members would gather
      > around and gossip about
      > those absent or present.
      > Only, it wasn't seen as
      > gossip but rationalized
      > as more of an evaluative/
      > investigative discussion
      > for possible initiation
      > recommendation or for
      > a Satsang position appointment.
      > They wanted to know,
      > from sources who knew
      > them, if there were problems
      > with these EKists and, if
      > so, what the specific details
      > were. It was all ego driven
      > and subjective because we
      > were all volunteers and
      > had family and personal
      > lives too. But, it did weed
      > out those who weren't as
      > well indoctrinated....
      > supposedly. But, HK's eck
      > crap (busy work) was pretty
      > much always a waste of
      > time so, in the long run,
      > enthusiasm was probably
      > more important than acting
      > the part. The Satsang positions
      > and duties kept people
      > busy, gave them a purpose
      > and made them feel good,
      > although, very stressed out.
      > The Initiation game has made
      > Eckists struggle with denying
      > how much more they want of
      > this magical, imaginary, elixir.
      > Janice, that was crazy, too,
      > that an ESA told you that the
      > people at the EK Center were
      > crazy. That just isn't done
      > and is part of HK's agenda
      > of Silence and retraining.
      > There's that old Buddha quote
      > that Eckists sing and talk about
      > (but don't attribute to Buddha)
      > and this is supposed to keep
      > ECKists quiet or else they will
      > sometimes get reported:
      > "Is it true, necessary, or kind;
      > this I ask myself before I
      > speak my mind." Interestingly,
      > following this criteria is very
      > subjective and could or would
      > Not, necessarily, stifle most
      > conservations.
      > "It's a beautiful day!" This
      > may be "true" for you and
      > for most people but not
      > not for all people. And, is
      > it "necessary" to exclaim
      > this? And, is it "kind" to say
      > this within earshot of people
      > who aren't feeling well or
      > who can't enjoy the day?
      > Yet, it's used by Klemp
      > to keep the critics of his
      > policies and of his H.I.s
      > to a minimum.
      > Prometheus
      > Russ Rodnick wrote:
      > You've seen the way things are and it seemed odd to me too. Especially
      > considering that Harold and Paul both spoke out against gossip publicly as a
      > very harmful activity. As I mentioned I have attended classes in a few states
      > over my 30 plus years as an eck chela and many good people have been turned off
      > by the antics and power trippers at the centers. I always thought it was my job
      > to remain aloof from negativity and seek out people I could relate to. It's been
      > very clear to me that we all of us have struggled with our human nature but
      > rather than share this very human reality and how we have perhaps learned to
      > handle it eckists retreat into a front or veneer of divine love.
      > Anyway it's one of the reasons I left. I've always craved 'real' sincere
      > communication and didn't find too many willing people at the eck centers.
      > Good to be away from it.
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > I always felt turned off by the gossip and back biting that I saw right from the
      > beginning. I couldn't help but think "where is the Love". But I was willing to
      > think it was my own lack of understanding that was the problem because certainly
      > spiritually advanced people could not be unloving. They would say awful things
      > about each other and then talk quietly to each other at the beginning of hu
      > sings and such like they were all good buddies. I am a loyal type person to
      > those who are my friends and those I think well of. I could not understand
      > these things coming from so called well developed people. I even think a male
      > that introduced me to eckankar might have been feeding them gossip about me at
      > times although I don't know that to be a fact. Also, some of the other females
      > would ask blatant personal questions to me right in the middle of a group. I
      > got some pretty stern looks when I told one that I didn't think that was any of
      > her business. Over all those people had no respect for any ones privacy and I
      > thought the way they slammed each other behind each others backs was very
      > disrespectful. I can only sum it up by saying they came across as very phony. I
      > could not form friendships with any of them. It was what I read that held me in
      > eckankar. The quality of the people in the center was terrible. It bothered me
      > so bad that I sought a spiritual session. I told the adviser what I was
      > thinking. Although she was kind to me, her answer for me, was in itself
      > shocking. She said she didn't go to the center because they were all crazy and
      > she preferred not to be involved with their activities. It only made me feel
      > more confused as a fairly new person. I would perform tasks anytime I was asked
      > but I started avoiding the center also. Finally, seeing the truth about the
      > teachings was enough to cause me to want to walk away. I decided that being a
      > long term eckist robbed people of any sense of discretion. it seems they open
      > their mouths and let whatever is going on between their two ears fly out no
      > matter who it was about. Gossip collectors and gossip spreaders seemed to be
      > what they were. It was crazy; all of it.
      > Russ wrote:
      > I was in three states and two of three state spiritual services directors were
      > fascist about the guidelines. One of them inherited a sum of money that set him
      > up in business and I always thought his ability to donate 5 figures was what
      > made him so popular in the eck community.
      > There ws such little love and tolerance toward one another and a strong sense of
      > self importance toward what we were doing. The face of love and smiling was
      > present, but not a real connection, which in the end is why I left, among other
      > things.
      > Russ
      > prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Non eckchains and All,
      > What has me ROFLMAO is
      > that Klemp has enough of
      > a problem that he used it
      > in the ASK The MASTER
      > section of the H.I. Letter!
      > And, it was the only question!
      > They had, supposedly, an
      > H.I. write-in and point out
      > the problem. No name given.
      > I remember when I had
      > to deal with some older
      > H.I.s (former RESAs) in
      > coordinator and director
      > positions and it was
      > impossible to get this
      > one to follow the Guidelines
      > on EK Worship Services
      > (EWS). Many long-time
      > H.I.s really resist H.K.'s
      > Guidelines and my
      > RESA turned a blind-
      > eye to it all. We had
      > so many former RESAs
      > in volunteer positions
      > that it was impossible
      > to get them on the
      > same page and to follow
      > procedures. I think
      > that some were just
      > burned out and tired
      > of Klemp's B.S. but
      > didn't want to leave.
      > Maybe they had too
      > many friendships to
      > lose. Plus, let's face
      > it. A lot of these people
      > are losers in the real
      > world but are big shots
      > in Eckankar. Those
      > Higher Initiations are
      > a big deal to the ego!
      > Prometheus
      > "Non" eckchains wrote:
      > It is so really boring when you look at it, the one man show with his clones. I
      > don't really get why the H.I.'s don't just implode. The klempster has nothing to
      > offer. Then again, true believers are just blobs of beliefs that become brittle
      > over time, concentrated self-delusion, and yes a lot of fear and insecurity and
      > even pent up rage. H.I. stands for Higher Idiot. :)
      > Non ;)
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > In the Dec. 2012 H.I.
      > > Letter I've read that
      > > Klemp still needs to
      > > update his Guidelines
      > > for the H.I.s in the
      > > field and chastise
      > > those who are slow
      > > to get with the program.
      > >
      > > Many long-time H.I.s
      > > want the freedom
      > > of Soul to be more
      > > individualistic,
      > > spontaneous, and
      > > creative by thinking
      > > they (Soul) can operate
      > > outside-of-the-box,
      > > thus, being channels
      > > for the ECK. Klemp
      > > has previously stated
      > > that he's imperfect,
      > > but that's not the case
      > > with the ECK, correct?
      > >
      > > Why, then, shouldn't
      > > their current (Present)
      > > Inner EK Guidance be
      > > followed versus that
      > > of outer set-in-stone
      > > ESC Guidelines printed
      > > in the Past and approved
      > > by a committee of imperfect
      > > people on a plane ruled
      > > by the KAL?
      > >
      > > H.I.s still haven't learned
      > > that freedom of expression
      > > doesn't work in Klemp's
      > > version of ECKankar.
      > > It's a hierarchy where
      > > everything is spelled
      > > out and controlled
      > > by him and his secret
      > > RESA police, plus, all
      > > field work must be
      > > approved via the
      > > current Guidelines.
      > >
      > > Many inexperienced
      > > EKists like the idea of
      > > being told how to do
      > > this or that and what
      > > approved books to use
      > > and what to say and
      > > other details to make
      > > the promotion of
      > > Eckankar easier.
      > >
      > > But the real point the
      > > ESC (Klemp) is making
      > > is to have EK PR more
      > > consistent and cookie
      > > cutter looking/sounding
      > > for the public.
      > >
      > > Plus, the EK Guidelines
      > > are like following a
      > > recipe set-in-stone
      > > that disregards individual
      > > or regional tastes and
      > > disallows any additions
      > > or omissions of other
      > > ingredients, methods,
      > > and/or spices.
      > >
      > > Klemp's foretold admonishments
      > > are about H.I.s resisting
      > > change. He says they "rock
      > > the boat" out of "fear" and
      > > that "it's all about fear."
      > > Also, "they huddle in packs"
      > > and "reinforce in each other
      > > a group's opposition to
      > > anything new." Strange
      > > that Klemp's H.I.s are
      > > subject to fear since he's
      > > supposed to protect them!
      > > This is how the KAL works.
      > > Klemp is his agent.
      > >
      > > However, the real 'change'
      > > that H.I.s resist is in rejecting
      > > Klemp's nonsense and
      > > heavy handed control tactics.
      > > Many H.I.s, however, chose
      > > the Freedom of Soul versus
      > > being bound to dogma.
      > > HK side-steps delivering
      > > on his promises of protection
      > > and never has anything
      > > profound to share. And,
      > > where are those Higher
      > > Initiations that are, supposedly,
      > > yardsticks in measuring
      > > Consciousness and Spiritual
      > > Growth? Klemp is playing
      > > the long-con and is, thus,
      > > stingy and self-serving.
      > >
      > > Harold goes on to say that
      > > these H.I.s are "obstructions
      > > on the path to God instead
      > > of being stepping stones."
      > > Apparently, being creative
      > > and spontaneous and
      > > following "Inner Nudges"
      > > and/or "Signs" are not
      > > permitted if it conflicts
      > > with the LEM's outer,
      > > Physical (1st) Plane, Guidelines!
      > >
      > > The LEM states that, "We
      > > are here to learn." However,
      > > what is it that Klemp "learns"
      > > from others since he never
      > > listens? He's the Top goD
      > > and doesn't partake in
      > > two-way dialogues with
      > > those under his authority.
      > >
      > > Klemp sounds quite intolerant
      > > and unloving as he continues
      > > to chastise his H.I.s. "They
      > > believe that if they sit still
      > > and breathe only enough to
      > > sustain life that they may
      > > well dodge the lightning
      > > strikes of irksome change."
      > > Is that a threat? HK sounds
      > > like KAL! However, by doing
      > > Klemp's bidding do ECKists
      > > really avoid "lightning strikes?"
      > > Don't EKists still die of all
      > > sorts of illnesses and situations
      > > that could have be averted
      > > if they had gotten proper
      > > and immediate care? Sure!
      > > Therefore, Klemp can't protect
      > > ECKists and his veiled threats
      > > are meaningless... unless
      > > you've given this Black
      > > Magician power over you!
      > >
      > > But, it seems that HK
      > > has something else stuck
      > > in his craw. It seems to
      > > me that Klemp doesn't
      > > like his 7ths just sitting
      > > still and Contemplating
      > > or HUing, and enjoying
      > > life. But why shouldn't
      > > they take it easy after
      > > 40 years of doing PR
      > > work for Eckankar!
      > >
      > > So, what does Klemp
      > > the All compassionate,
      > > loving, positive, and
      > > empathetic icon of EK
      > > conclude?
      > >
      > > "An H.I. who blatantly
      > > refuses to adhere to
      > > the ECK Guidelines
      > > needs to be addressed
      > > on the issues." Hmmmm.
      > > I wonder what that
      > > really means? Well,
      > > unless you're already
      > > a 7th you can kiss that
      > > next initiation good-bye
      > > for like 10-20 years!
      > >
      > > Klemp continues to say,
      > > "These are big stakes!
      > > Continued refusal means
      > > it's time for a replacement
      > > to step in. A change is
      > > due. Change. isn't it
      > > funny how we have come
      > > full circle?" No! It's not
      > > really funny. Klemp
      > > abuses the concept
      > > of "change" and makes
      > > it into a misnomer.
      > >
      > > What "changes" are there
      > > in Eckankar? The same
      > > old things are merely
      > > revisited, updated, dusted
      > > off and made to seem
      > > "new." It's all a facade,
      > > smoke and mirrors, and
      > > a game of pretend by
      > > creating brightly colored
      > > straws to grab at and
      > > cling to when drowning.
      > >
      > > Too bad that EKists are
      > > so deluded and needy
      > > and aren't able to read
      > > between the lines and
      > > see the real truth behind
      > > Klemp's words and methods.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
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