6481Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
- Dec 10, 2012I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):
"There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
without being complete within itself - without having both completed
the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)
As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?
I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
"The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"
Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
which appears to be from appropriated text.
From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
let alone the soulmate idea.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
>no matter where it comes from.Â I don't believe any of us are half of
> I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
a whole.Â Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
> --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
> From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.comlooks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
> Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
> I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
>Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
> There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
>1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
> Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
>in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
> Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
something in DWTM)?
>"other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
> Ali Nomad:
> Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
time comes for attainment of immortality.
>spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
> Lord Sohang:
> "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
(DWTM p. 176)
>the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
> Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
>pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
> [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
upon all planes. (p. 220)
> The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
> The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
>union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
> Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
> "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
> "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriageand union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
>since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
> (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
>Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
> Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
>all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
> I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
>the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
> Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
are catching up.
>"prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
> >get the Soulmate
> > Hello Non eckchains and All,
> > The Soulmate theory
> > phenomena is an interesting
> > spiritual perspective
> > and is, actually, unlimited
> > by conventional New Age
> > thought. Eckankar (PT)
> > reinvented it with a
> > Twin-Soul perspective.
> > This is interesting, but
> > IMO it shouldn't be limited
> > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
> > view and a single pairing
> > only.
> > Thus, the connection that
> > some/many Souls have with
> > one another (IMO) s/b referred
> > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
> > is more than one pairing.
> > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
> > Klemp has them locked into
> > a "Twin" concept when there
> > are Triplets and many more!
> > This phenomena can be
> > a special connection/attraction
> > with lifelong friends, as well,
> > and not always be with sexual
> > partners.
> > As far as Klemp's fraud
> > and his "frownish and fakish"
> > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
> > expected when they emulate
> > HK's own behaviour via clues
> > with the way the EK hierarchy
> > is run or the way in which
> > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
> > or tells his stories.
> > With Klemp there's a lack
> > of forgiveness, compassion,
> > and empathy. These are
> > missing from Klemp's own
> > perspectives in his own life
> > stories.
> > It's easy for him to judge
> > others and point out flaws
> > or to add "insight" and to
> > do EK tweaks on the letters
> > sent to him. And, that's
> > what Klemp does when
> > he "writes" in his hermit
> > batty cave.
> > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
> > emulate his lack of empathy,
> > compassion, and forgiveness.
> > They talk a lot about "love"
> > but when it comes to the
> > business/spiritual side of
> > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
> > as set forth by HK via the
> > ESC, there is not much room
> > leftover for the byproducts
> > of love.
> > Look at the way the Higher
> > initiations are handed out.
> > There are always strings
> > attached and it has more
> > to do with "Outer" posturing
> > and faking it with physical
> > requirements. What is said
> > or isn't said to the RESA
> > or done as a volunteer,
> > than with anything else
> > or with one's visible goodness,
> > has more importance in
> > deciding who gets a pink
> > slip. It's not love for God.
> > Long-time Eckists who
> > are loyal and loving and
> > are very nice people are
> > excluded from becoming
> > H.I.s because they haven't
> > jumped through enough
> > physical hoops of training,
> > retraining, volunteering, etc.
> > Or, maybe they didn't seem
> > like a 'take charge" leader
> > or have a college education
> > and/or were high profile
> > professionals. It's amazing
> > how petty RESAs can be,
> > and these people are the
> > "righthand" of Klemp.
> > In truth, many people who
> > left Eckankar did so out of
> > frustration caused via neglect
> > and unloving behavior towards
> > them. Once you've become
> > a member their main goal
> > has been achieved. From
> > there they dangle the carrot
> > for the higher initiations
> > and, now, make it very
> > difficult to achieve the 7th.
> > Eckists need to become
> > ESAs to become RESAs
> > and unless you're already
> > an ESA it's, now, much
> > more difficult to achieve.
> > And, for a 6th ESA to get
> > the 7th they, usually, need
> > to become a RESA.
> > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
> > Initiations in 1985 due to
> > Darwin making 500 new
> > 5ths before leaving office.
> > So, more that 25 years later
> > what is Klemp's excuse for
> > not making more H.I.s and
> > for not expanding the "outer"
> > initiations and their numbers?
> > It's actually a simple/obvious
> > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
> > Klemp's lack of empathy,
> > compassion, forgiveness and
> > real, true love for his fellow
> > eckists, and the trickle-down
> > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
> > is why Eckankar and ECKists
> > are broken and lost. Their
> > delusional faith and fellowship
> > (it's a numbers game) is
> > what they cling to as do
> > all religionists. Yet, as with
> > all religionists, their faith
> > has the only chosen ones
> > who have been gifted with
> > special insight into God
> > (or whatever name they use).
> > EK is simply more of the same
> > but tweaked to fit a special
> > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
> > It's the Easy Way until those,
> > now, with less than 30 plus
> > years want a 6th or 7th
> > initiation.
> > Prometheus
> > "Non" eckchains wrote:
> > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
> > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty inactualizing this, even
> > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,yet I am also
> > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot andenjoys experimenting and
> > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight totheir beliefs and
> > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just beingmyself. For some
> > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stayaway from certain
> > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.beautiful music
> > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
> > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.The sound current and
> > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our twomost used human
> > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richnessinvolved. We are
> > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses thatother animals know
> > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.Humans are very arrogant
> > because of our superior ability to manipulate ourenvironment, something that if
> > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction andkilling just to kill.
> >to have compassion
> > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
> > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.People don't like it,
> > because it also means that we may have to relate to the painof another, or to
> > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,bless the ones who
> > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who areindifferent to at
> > least living with some level of a little empathy. I thinkthey have compassion
> > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing toexpress. I dare say,
> > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,because that is how you
> > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder forhumans, because we are
> > more self-aware. Native American life often at least hadsacred rituals for
> > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditationsmay just be a
> > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannotcut off a part of
> > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.ex eckist, interviewing
> > Non ; )
> > <prometheus wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
> > > I believe that religious myth
> > > was created to explain away
> > > the phenomenal, and that
> > > religion was created in order
> > > to control the masses and,
> > > thus, use this undertaking
> > > for money, power, greed,
> > > status and other self-benefits
> > > for the hierarchies.
> > >
> > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
> > > The human mind/brain
> > > functions similarly and
> > > when attention is placed
> > > upon subjects this produces
> > > chemical and electrical
> > > reactions. There are even
> > > mixed but similar responses
> > > to unconscious stimuli.
> > > But many people realize
> > > all of this but tend to
> > > forget it when seeking
> > > "spiritual" answers.
> > >
> > > People should not have
> > > faith in the words of
> > > others. People should
> > > No Longer give others
> > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
> > >
> > > Yes, we can look at what
> > > principles they are sharing
> > > in order to help us to
> > > achieve a greater realization
> > > but we should not limit
> > > ourselves from going
> > > beyond the realizations
> > > and achievements in
> > > higher consciousness
> > > of those we view as
> > > ideals/icons.
> > >
> > > Thus, the concept of
> > > "Master" needs to be
> > > revised and eliminated.
> > >
> > > When the lessons have
> > > been taught, via real
> > > world examples of
> > > living, it then becomes
> > > our responsibility
> > > to demonstrate what
> > > we have learned as
> > > it pertains to our
> > > own unique individual
> > > personality and
> > > circumstances. We
> > > move-on and into
> > > our own unrestricted
> > > conscious awareness.
> > >
> > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
> > > always his apostles,
> > > taught some really
> > > advanced concepts.
> > > Too advanced for
> > > most of us today!
> > >
> > > I'll never forget this
> > > one Fung Fu episode
> > > where Cain ran into
> > > some religious fanatics
> > > who would not defend
> > > themselves and would
> > > turn the other cheek.
> > > Cain showed them that
> > > there was a third response.
> > > Instead of becoming
> > > a victim of violence,
> > > or responding with
> > > violence Cain stopped/
> > > blocked the violence
> > > i.e. punch or object
> > > and redirected its
> > > intended path.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I've heard
> > > sounds when first
> > > starting to mediate
> > > via TM. Everyone
> > > heard these tones.
> > > Generally the mind
> > > blocks out these
> > > background noises
> > > until it quiets down
> > > and empties itself.
> > > Actually, one can
> > > follow these sounds
> > > without placing
> > > too much attention
> > > on them. That's the
> > > trick. One doesn't
> > > place attention or
> > > attachment on any
> > > thought, imaginary
> > > vision or sound no
> > > matter how pleasant.
> > >
> > > Eventually, this will
> > > produce other by-
> > > products of awareness
> > > such as contentment.
> > >
> > > I have to say that one
> > > must discover their
> > > own reality. Don't take
> > > my word for anything.
> > > Divine Awareness is
> > > an individual experience
> > > and not a group path.
> > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
> > > in oder to give this
> > > private and personal
> > > Discovery by Soul a
> > > special designation.
> > > By referring to the
> > > uniqueness of the
> > > individual experience
> > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
> > >
> > > I will have to say that
> > > I've had help in validating
> > > that there is a Reality
> > > beyond the scientific
> > > explanations and that
> > > of religious dogma.
> > >
> > > I can only say that
> > > the Soulmate concept
> > > (IMO) is real in that
> > > it helps these Souls
> > > to form a special
> > > bond in order to merge
> > > and harmonize their
> > > vibrations and to better
> > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
> > > of, perhaps, our true
> > > origins and potential
> > > but also of this Here
> > > and Now.
> > >
> > > Prometheus
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tyson" wrote:
> > > The sound current, bani,
> > > shabd or nam is real.
> > >
> > > There is no religion that
> > > can claim it as there own.
> > >
> > > What is fiction is the
> > > dependance on a master
> > > that is created by religions
> > > of the light and sound.
> > >
> > > Only one initiation is
> > > important.
> > >
> > > Yet faith in a past master
> > > such as Christ, Krishna
> > > or Guru Nanak is just as
> > > valid.
> > >
> > > There is no mahanta.
> > >
> > > The blue star is no
> > > other than a manifestation
> > > created by a meeting
> > > between the holy spirit
> > > and ones higher self
> > > (soul).
> > >
> > > For Harold to claim to
> > > be the blue star is a
> > > way to snare the gullible.
> > > He is no more the blue
> > > star than the second
> > > coming of christ.
> > >
> > > I had heard the rushing
> > > wind as a member of
> > > eckankar so I wrongly
> > > believed that this path
> > > must be true.
> > >
> > > It was meditation on
> > > the third eye that brought
> > > the rushing wind, not
> > > Klemp.
> > >
> > > Eckankar was taken from
> > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
> > > Ek Ong Kar means one
> > > divine energy permeates
> > > all things.
> > >
> > >
> > > Russ wrote:
> > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
> > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.paraphrasing here, that in
> > >
> > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
> > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings ofeckankar come from because he
> > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it'smore important to have
> > achanged for me?
> > > connection with the sound current.
> > > >
> > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
> > > >about eck was this idea
> > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
> > thatsynonymous with the
> > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
> > soundfor a decade, after
> > > current.
> > > >
> > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
> > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore thisdissonance, caused by the
> > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me droppingout of eckankar.
> > > >experience this sound,
> > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
> > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous tomy study of eck.
> > Maybeit as a principle and
> > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
> > > work with it.Delusions?
> > > >
> > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
> > > >interested in truth...
> > > > This is an interesting point because I am
> > > >good work. But this by
> > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
> > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerningthe question, "What is
> > theof connection with the
> > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
> > > Divine??"
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Russ
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