Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

6437Re: Digest Number 2017

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Nov 20, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Sharon and All,
      I never did card readings
      but I did do other types
      of "psychic" readings,
      Reiki (type) healing
      (by phone too), and
      taught meditation.
      I was taught to do the
      psychic reading techniques
      from a well known foreign
      psychic for over a year.
      At times she would
      have me sit in on
      some of her readings
      and assist her. That
      was prior to Eck of
      course. I will say that
      I never did anything
      for anyone. And, what
      money I charged (for
      meditation classes
      only) was given to my
      friend, because it was
      conducted in her offices,
      and helped her to pay
      her bills. I never took
      money for readings
      nor for healing.....
      There was a 100%
      success rate on the
      healing done, according
      to those that were helped,
      so something seemed
      to be happening, but
      who knows if it was
      suggestion/hypnosis
      or what. I stopped after
      joining Eckankar mostly
      due to the Karma scare.

      Prometheus

      Sharon wrote:
      Gawd, this is a looooong digest!

      First of all - Jerry Mulvin. See:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files/AFTER%20ECKANKAR%20-%20WHAT%3F%3F/Jerry%20Mulvin/

      Yahoo only allows members to access group files; I'd rather have everything at "eckankartruth" open to the public.

      Stefan - there's absolutely no anonymity on the internet. I used to tell ET's members that they'd be anonymous and no one but me would know anyone's real names - until I learned that you can see message headers and track people down. Others have tried to "screen" people in their groups but people lie, and eckists *do* get in. Silly, isn't it?

      They've calmed down a bit since back in the 90's when I started. You wouldn't believe how far the HI Eckthugs went in their efforts to silence me & get me off the internet!! Everything from contacting my ISPs to breaking & entering to threatening my family.

      Anyway, Stefan - check out your book's listing at Amazon. Did you make any changes from the 2003 version? I ask because I might be interested in reading it but not until cheap used ones are available, like "Lost Slipper of Soul". And is "Rest Points in Eternity" the same book as....whoops, can't find that page again.

      Anyway, don't get your knickers in a knot over this. Wherever I go, I click on links and sometimes end up with a dozen or more tabs open and it can be pretty overwhelming....

      If you're going thru "stuff" - well, actually I started out helping people thru the psychological trauma of leaving. For some it's easy, but others get severe cases of post-traumatic stress disorder and need professional help, but the problem there is that there are few professionals who know or understand about leaving a cult.

      I've compared it to being in a perfect marriage with a perfect spouse, and coming home early one day and finding them in bed having sex with a dog.

      I've got some links to healing sites at ET, and I'm sure Prometheus has some here too. I got a lot of help on the internet when I got out. Years back I used to get dozens of emails from traumatized newbie exes every week, don't know how I did all that typing, TG it's slowed down because I can't do it anymore.

      Anyway, Twitch probably wouldn't last long if he started up now. Thanks to the internet, he'd get caught & outed very quickly.

      Oh - Prometheus, yeah I agree about those awesome academic credentials, but they don't translate to internet street-savvy. BTW, don't knock card readings - I used to do it years ago, still get people asking for readings and my natal charts. I was damned good! But I never could learn which card meant what, I'd just sort of wave my hand over them and "tune in".

      Anyway, Stefan - believe me, I know how hard it can be. One thing I'd suggest through long experience that might help you, seriously, is - resign from membership. Write Klemp a letter and say it's b.s., you quit, to remove you from the computer, and take your initiations & put them where the sun don't shine. Rip your Official Cult ID Card into little pieces and burn it.

      Your mind, heart, and soul have been imprisoned way too long.

      Gotta go!

      Hugs,

      Sharon
      There are 5 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1a. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      From: prometheus_973

      2a. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      From: Stefan Meyer
      2b. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      From: prometheus_973
      2c. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      From: prometheus_973
      2d. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      From: prometheus_973



      Hello Sharon and All,
      S.M. sent me a message
      and wanted to have his
      name removed so that
      he couldn't be traced,
      but mentioning the book's
      title doesn't require
      much sleuthing in order
      to discover the author's
      real name (Google and
      discover his Karma-Seeker
      site... and he's on FB too!).

      Anyway, I removed one
      of his posts and was trying
      to edit his name out of
      another but I must
      have done something
      wrong and his entire
      post was removed.

      Did he send you something
      too? Maybe he's fishing
      for customers because
      the EK pond has been
      fished out?

      BTW- Someone asked to
      be able to join ESA and
      said they had nice things
      to say about Jerry Mulvin.
      I approved their membership
      out of curiosity, but they
      will be monitored until
      I can determine if their
      status should be changed.

      It's funny that Stefan does
      "Card Reading" via phone,
      yet, claims it's "not psychic."
      Apparently the spiel is that
      the technique he uses is
      "spiritual" or maybe involves
      "Quantum Physics." It kind
      of reminded of the TV show
      The Mentalist where Patrick
      Jane states that the psychic
      doesn't exist and that selling
      it is just a con/scam and
      that all he actually does
      to 'know things' is to "pay
      attention."

      I didn't check to see that
      Stefan had mentioned E-cult
      in his links. For someone
      who has the educational
      credentials that he has it
      makes one wonder about
      his inability to connect-
      the-dots and cover his
      tracks. Being an H.I. for
      a long period of time
      either makes one more
      skeptical or more delusional
      via denial.

      Of course, one could wonder
      about the same in regards to
      Klemp. Except, he's in it for
      the Prestige, Money, and Power.

      ECKists should ask: Why isn't
      the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
      Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
      Otherwise HK would do something
      about the problem like he did
      with others right? Maybe Klemp
      is only "aware" when someone
      informs him via a snail-mail
      letter like Ford did.

      The real reason for Klemp's
      inattention to what his H.I.'s
      are doing is that he's a fake
      prophet and is in it for profit!

      But, what's going on with
      HK's Secret RESA Police?
      Why hasn't this guy been
      ferreted out, detained,
      questioned, suspended
      from Satsang duties and
      reported to the ESC? Local
      H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
      tree' need to be warned
      as well! Who's the RESA
      now for Massachusetts?
      Stefan is in Boston right?

      Prometheus

      "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      a name for it yet?

      So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

      You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

      It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

      I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      especially those who've been in it for many years.

      "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

      I think not.


      Sharon


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > Yes, it is my understanding
      > that he joined the E-cult
      > in 1971.
      >
      > [sorry for the reposts]
      >
      > Was "The Lost Slipper
      > of Soul" printed by
      > Eckankar?
      >
      > BTW-It seems that the
      > "Kip" character is the
      > alter ego of the author.
      > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      > all that impressive
      > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      > for this H.I., and I'm
      > thinking that he no
      > longer buys into Twit's
      > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >
      > IMO, Based upon the
      > story line, many of us
      > former long-time EK
      > leaders could have
      > written a similar book.
      > And, one could easily
      > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      > for "Karma Seeker," and
      > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >
      > FYI: I Googled his
      > Karma-Seeker website
      > where he gives "Card
      > Readings" via phone.
      > So, why would a person
      > still be an H.I. If he
      > does Card Readings?
      >
      > Here's some info on the
      > book from Amazon.
      >
      >
      > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >
      > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      > even in the face of disapproval and
      > sanction?
      >
      > This is the question that confronts
      > Kip Morgan.
      >
      > Kip is a karma seekerâ€"an individual
      > committed to testing himself by means
      > of his own choices. For such people,
      > who are engaged in an experiment
      > with unknown forces, there is no way
      > to prove that they are fit to discover
      > what they seek except by doing it.
      >
      > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      > of-body experiences.
      >
      > The high point of his experience comes
      > with his initiation into the League's inner
      > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      > however, before he discovers how fragile
      > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >
      > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      > beyond the confines of the League.
      >
      > Eventually, he comes to question the
      > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
      > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
      > path.
      >
      > As he becomes less reliant on the League
      > and its members for support and guidance,
      > he is torn between his personal vision of
      > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
      > puts him on a collision course with the League
      > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
      >
      > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
      > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
      > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
      > spiritual pathâ€"its highs and lows, its rewards
      > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
      > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
      > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
      > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
      > eventually become active participants in their
      > own destiny." [end]



      Prometheus

      "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      a name for it yet?

      So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

      You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

      It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

      I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      especially those who've been in it for many years.

      "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

      I think not.

      Sharon

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > Yes, it is my understanding
      > that he joined the E-cult
      > in 1971.
      >
      > [sorry for the reposts]
      >
      > Was "The Lost Slipper
      > of Soul" printed by
      > Eckankar?
      >
      > BTW-It seems that the
      > "Kip" character is the
      > alter ego of the author.
      > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      > all that impressive
      > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      > for this H.I., and I'm
      > thinking that he no
      > longer buys into Twit's
      > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >
      > IMO, Based upon the
      > story line, many of us
      > former long-time EK
      > leaders could have
      > written a similar book.
      > And, one could easily
      > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      > for "Karma Seeker," and
      > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >
      > FYI: I Googled his
      > Karma-Seeker website
      > where he gives "Card
      > Readings" via phone.
      > So, why would a person
      > still be an H.I. If he
      > does Card Readings?
      >
      > Here's some info on the
      > book from Amazon.
      >
      >
      > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >
      > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      > even in the face of disapproval and
      > sanction?
      >
      > This is the question that confronts
      > Kip Morgan.
      >
      > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
      > committed to testing himself by means
      > of his own choices. For such people,
      > who are engaged in an experiment
      > with unknown forces, there is no way
      > to prove that they are fit to discover
      > what they seek except by doing it.
      >
      > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      > of-body experiences.
      >
      > The high point of his experience comes
      > with his initiation into the League's inner
      > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      > however, before he discovers how fragile
      > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >
      > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      > beyond the confines of the League.
      >
      > Eventually, he comes to question the
      > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
      > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
      > path.
      >
      > As he becomes less reliant on the League
      > and its members for support and guidance,
      > he is torn between his personal vision of
      > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
      > puts him on a collision course with the League
      > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
      >
      > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
      > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
      > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
      > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
      > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
      > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
      > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
      > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
      > eventually become active participants in their
      > own destiny." [end]
      >
      >
      >
      > "zephrendhun" wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Prom and all,
      > >
      Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
      "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
      the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
      an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
      H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
      will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
      the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
      probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
      spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
      individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
      encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
      a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
      this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
      for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
      really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
      is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
      delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
      out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
      > >
      > > Zephrendhun



      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Stefan and All,
      I guess that the problem
      that people are having
      is Why is it that you still
      want to remain an H.I.
      when you don't see HK
      as the Mahanta nor see
      Eckankar as the end all
      to spiritual truth.

      As far as the mumbo-
      jumbo with the "card
      reading' if it's not psychic,
      which doesn't exist, then,
      it's a con/scam. Or,
      maybe you've bought
      into the delusion as
      much as you've, previously,
      bought into Eckankar. I'm
      sure that astrology works
      just as well.

      Have you ever read about
      the Amazing Randy?
      Google him! He's debunked
      all sorts of scams similar
      to your "Card Reading."

      But, yes, many of us have
      interesting stories involving
      our spiritual search to find
      Truth. And many of us have
      been involved with EK leadership
      positions and the hierarchy.

      Why not just come out of
      the anti-HK closet and let
      Klemp censor you like he
      did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
      he'll demote you but so what?
      IMO-The best thing would
      be to have Klemp excommunicate
      you!

      Prometheus


      Stefan Meyer wrote:
      Hi, All

      I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.

      The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

      The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

      Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.

      That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
    • Show all 2 messages in this topic