6378Re: Becoming a New Member and/or Posting Comments on this site:
- Sep 19, 2012Just to clarify, really the only time I felt dismissed and had problems with the mixed messages I was getting, was when I went to class to learn about Eck at the group center. I only attended worship a few times, and found it VERY boring...yawn... But, a man (outside of Eck) who later became a friend that introduced me to Eck, was always very polite and kind, and told me what I wanted to know when I asked, but I really didn't always asked specific questions, I just wanted to know the spiritual stuff. Then a lady (also outside of Eck) who became a friend of mine told me she was an Eck, and she was pretty informative, but I couldn't wrap my head around all the details. She had been pagan, like I was at the time, and so we did talk a lot about soul travel and things like that. But, her life was so messed up and she was always so depressed, I wondered how her spiritual knowledge was helping her since she didn't seem to live it.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
> "Klemp has even revamped people's experiences of having seen Jesus by
> having Ekists show them pics of Gopal Das, whereby, they suddenly
> realized that it wasn't Jesus after all. It was a mistake in identity
> and was actually Gopal Das whom they saw!"
> That's ironic. Here's why.
> Â The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as it appeared in installment in
> Orion Magazine. Ch. I, Par. 41:
> "When Jesus looked upon His people and said, `I cannot tell you
> more because you cannot hear the whole truth.' He was saying that they
> were so far down the spiral of life they could not grasp His meaning.
> To tell them all would bring disorder into their lives, for once
> exposed to Truth, those not understanding develop hostility."
> Â Â The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as published by Illuminated
> Way Press (1970). Ch. I, Par. 42:
> "When the ECK Master, Gopal Das, looked upon his people and said,
> `I cannot tell you more because you cannot hear the whole ECK,' he was
> saying that they were so far down the spiral of life they could not
> grasp his meaning. To tell them would bring disorder into their lives,
> for once exposed to Truth, those not understanding develop hostility."
> The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as it appeared in installments in
> Orion Magazine. Chapter II - "The Symbol of The Princes":
> Par. 12: "Therefore, the principal (sic) involved here is: `We
> live and have our being in the Supreme Being.' Jesus said it in another
> way as `we move and have our being in God.' Other savants e.g.,
> Jalalddin Maulana Rumi put it another way, `Divine Grace is not limited
> by the conditions of ability, but ability, in fact, is conditioned by
> Divine Grace.'"
> Â The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as published by Illuminated Way
> Press (1970). Chapter II - "The Symbol of The Princes":
> Par. 11: "Therefore, the principle involved here is,`We live and
> have our being in the Supreme Being.' Lai Tsi, the Chinese ECK Master,
> said it this way, `We live and move and have our being in the SUGMAD.'
> Other savants state it in a slightly different vein. For instance,
> Jalaluddin Maulana Rumi said, `Divine Grace is not limited by the
> conditions of ability - but ability, in fact, is conditioned by Divine
> OK. You'll love this next one :)
> "[...] When the great Buddha was a poor hungry beggar in pursuit of his
> spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did
> when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Jesus,
> who might have commanded any army â" so great was his mental energy â"
> walked the dusty streets, tired and hungry in order that he might carry
> the bread of life to the multitudes, his greatness eclipsed all the
> splendors of Rome. [....]"
> Based on: The Path Of The Masters - THE GREAT WORK OF THE MASTERS, p.
> 432, 2nd paragraph.
> "[...] When Buddha was a poor, hungry beggar in pursuit of his
> spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did
> when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Rebazar
> Tarzs might have commanded any army, so great was his mental energy,
> walked the dusty streets when in his youth, tired and hungry, in order
> that he might carry the spiritual message to the multitudes, his
> greatness eclipsed all the splendors of this world. [....]"
> Based on: Letters to Gail, Volume 1, by Paul Twitchell (d. 1971),
> Copyright 1973 ECKANKAR, Original copyright 1973 by Gail A. Twitchell;
> copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1982, 5th Printing-1983, p. 117, 2nd
> Are Gopal Das, Lai Tsi and Rebazar Tarzs all Jesus? Wait just a minute.
> Don't forget Yaubl Sacabi.
> Here's another interesting quote (search the link pages for
> corresponding quotes).
> TKTE - p. 40
> PTP p. 21
> Notice how Jesus and Father - in Goldsmith's version - appear where Eck
> Master Yaubl Sacabi & Sugmad appear in Twitchell's version. Notice also
> the many words in Twitchell's version similar to those in Goldsmith's
> Are they all Jesus? The earlier versions don't mention Eck Masters. By
> the looks of it those Eck Masters were used to cover-up the earlier
> -----Original Message-----
> From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
> Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 6:49 pm
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Becoming a New Member and/or
> Posting Comments on this site:
> Hello All,
> Thanks for sharing and
> bringing up this subject.
> Many H.I.s, unfortunately
> for them, feel rather aloof
> and spiritually advanced
> due to the "number" on
> their EK membership cards.
> They are deluded enough
> to think that this number
> is an indication of Higher
> Con because the liar Twitchell
> said it was in order to
> sell more memberships
> and materials. Klemp
> continues the lie!
> The biggest argument for
> these deluded people are
> the few stories told of Twit,
> Klemp, Rebazar, etc. were
> seen somewhere on the
> streets, etc. or in a dream
> before these newbies saw
> their pictures and were
> told that these were EK
> Klemp has even revamped
> people's experiences of having
> seen Jesus by having Ekists
> show them pics of Gopal Das,
> whereby, they suddenly realized
> that it wasn't Jesus after all.
> It was a mistake in identity
> and was actually Gopal Das
> whom they saw!
> The truth is most H.I.s have
> little to no actual spiritual
> experiences or dreams and
> they grab at straws. The
> amount of experiences are
> no more than any other group
> that focuses upon mental
> techniques during meditation
> or before going to sleep.
> As with all religions it is
> a matter of faith and belief
> and Klemp has even mentioned
> that was this was the real
> key to Eckankar.
> I remember once that Klemp
> told 4th initiates to hang out
> with 5ths and 6ths as a way
> to share in their consciousness
> and prepare for their 5th. One
> person I knew quit hanging
> out with her non-H.I. friends
> and even looked down her nose
> at lower initiates (like herself).
> Basically, as it is within any
> hierarchy, the long timers
> want to see the newbies go
> through the same amount
> of crap they had to go through.
> It's jealously and envy.
> These H.I.s don't know anymore
> about spiritual matters than
> the next person because it's
> all subjective.
> Basically, old outdated techniques
> like focusing upon the Third-
> Eye versus the Crown chakra
> will never be changed even
> though an older EK discourse
> uses the Crown Chakra technique.
> Other than that it's all about
> selling and supporting Klemp's
> ego and the EK Organization
> which is Klemp's inherited
> vocation and spiritual con.
> Thus, the survival of the EK
> Org. and support of Klemp's
> second rate books will continue
> to be the central focus of Eckankar
> Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
> Thank you Lady for expressing just how I felt while I was in. You did
> it so well. Looking back, I am wondering if a lot of high initiates
> shy away from answering questions for newbies because they are afraid
> they will say something that is frowned upon by Minneapolis and also
> like you say show they don't know a lot anyway. When I was very new
> and would talk about some experience I had, I often wondered if it was
> jealousy that made some of them snap at me because I did so. It was
> kind of like as a newbie, they couldn't tolerate you having experiences
> they had not had. Thanks again for your posting.
> Lady wrote:
> Hello Prometheus et al. The reason I joined this group mostly is
> because I was curious. I was actually googling the "Hu" looking for
> some history behind it other than what Eck says it is and this came up.
> I still enjoy singing the Hu, but I like chanting and doing chakra
> clearing, etc. But, wow, I was so surprised to find out there were
> people who felt about Eck like I did. I wasn't in it very long, but
> having been a seeker for such a long time, I just had this feeling
> somethings were just off. The biggest red flags for me was when I would
> ask a higher intiate any questions, I just got the brush off and
> eventually realized that most of them probably didn't know much more
> than I did. I was born into the Catholic church, and I felt like every
> time I asked a question, it was like I was committing a 'sin.' LOL!!!
> But, I was looking for spiritual truth, not someone else's philosophy,
> and although I felt that most of the people were nice and polite
> enough, there was no re al substance, just regurgitated words of the
> same thing. I have no animosity toward HK or Eck, probably because I
> wasn't in that long, but it's nice to know I'm not deluded...which is
> how I felt they were treating me when I wanted to know more. It's like
> thinking I'm crazy when I finally come to realize everyone else around
> me is and I'm the only sane one...It reminds me of the Twilight Zone
> episode where this beautiful girl's face is wrapped in gauze, and the
> doctors come in with surgical masks on and tell her they did their
> best, but there was nothing they could do, that she would remain ugly
> for the rest of her life, and they take their masks off and all have
> pig faces...anyway. We can only hope the best for those still caught in
> the deception, but I believe somewhere in their 'knower' that they know
> the truth or will figure it out. Rowan.
> prometheus wrote:
> > Please POST (no emails please) "Why"
> > you want to join this site (ESA) and
> > whether you have: any connections
> > to Eckankar; know any ECKists; have
> > a story involving Eckankar; have opinions
> > & insights involving Harold Klemp
> > and/or Eckankar.
> > Thanks,
> > Prometheus
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