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6378Re: Becoming a New Member and/or Posting Comments on this site:

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  • Lady
    Sep 19, 2012
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      Just to clarify, really the only time I felt dismissed and had problems with the mixed messages I was getting, was when I went to class to learn about Eck at the group center. I only attended worship a few times, and found it VERY boring...yawn... But, a man (outside of Eck) who later became a friend that introduced me to Eck, was always very polite and kind, and told me what I wanted to know when I asked, but I really didn't always asked specific questions, I just wanted to know the spiritual stuff. Then a lady (also outside of Eck) who became a friend of mine told me she was an Eck, and she was pretty informative, but I couldn't wrap my head around all the details. She had been pagan, like I was at the time, and so we did talk a lot about soul travel and things like that. But, her life was so messed up and she was always so depressed, I wondered how her spiritual knowledge was helping her since she didn't seem to live it.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      > "Klemp has even revamped people's experiences of having seen Jesus by
      > having Ekists show them pics of Gopal Das, whereby, they suddenly
      > realized that it wasn't Jesus after all. It was a mistake in identity
      > and was actually Gopal Das whom they saw!"
      >
      > ***
      >
      > That's ironic. Here's why.
      >
      >  The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as it appeared in installment in
      > Orion Magazine. Ch. I, Par. 41:
      >
      > "When Jesus looked upon His people and said, `I cannot tell you
      > more because you cannot hear the whole truth.' He was saying that they
      > were so far down the spiral of life they could not grasp His meaning.
      > To tell them all would bring disorder into their lives, for once
      > exposed to Truth, those not understanding develop hostility."
      >
      >    The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as published by Illuminated
      > Way Press (1970). Ch. I, Par. 42:
      >
      > "When the ECK Master, Gopal Das, looked upon his people and said,
      > `I cannot tell you more because you cannot hear the whole ECK,' he was
      > saying that they were so far down the spiral of life they could not
      > grasp his meaning. To tell them would bring disorder into their lives,
      > for once exposed to Truth, those not understanding develop hostility."
      >
      >
      > The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as it appeared in installments in
      > Orion Magazine. Chapter II - "The Symbol of The Princes":
      >
      > Par. 12: "Therefore, the principal (sic) involved here is: `We
      > live and have our being in the Supreme Being.' Jesus said it in another
      > way as `we move and have our being in God.' Other savants e.g.,
      > Jalalddin Maulana Rumi put it another way, `Divine Grace is not limited
      > by the conditions of ability, but ability, in fact, is conditioned by
      > Divine Grace.'"
      >
      >  The Flute Of God by Paul Twitchell as published by Illuminated Way
      > Press (1970). Chapter II - "The Symbol of The Princes":
      >
      > Par. 11: "Therefore, the principle involved here is,`We live and
      > have our being in the Supreme Being.' Lai Tsi, the Chinese ECK Master,
      > said it this way, `We live and move and have our being in the SUGMAD.'
      > Other savants state it in a slightly different vein. For instance,
      > Jalaluddin Maulana Rumi said, `Divine Grace is not limited by the
      > conditions of ability - but ability, in fact, is conditioned by Divine
      > Grace.'"
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
      >
      > OK. You'll love this next one :)
      >
      > "[...] When the great Buddha was a poor hungry beggar in pursuit of his
      > spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did
      > when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Jesus,
      > who might have commanded any army â€" so great was his mental energy â€"
      > walked the dusty streets, tired and hungry in order that he might carry
      > the bread of life to the multitudes, his greatness eclipsed all the
      > splendors of Rome. [....]"
      >
      > Based on: The Path Of The Masters - THE GREAT WORK OF THE MASTERS, p.
      > 432, 2nd paragraph.
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
      >
      >
      > "[...] When Buddha was a poor, hungry beggar in pursuit of his
      > spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did
      > when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Rebazar
      > Tarzs might have commanded any army, so great was his mental energy,
      > walked the dusty streets when in his youth, tired and hungry, in order
      > that he might carry the spiritual message to the multitudes, his
      > greatness eclipsed all the splendors of this world. [....]"
      >
      > Based on: Letters to Gail, Volume 1, by Paul Twitchell (d. 1971),
      > Copyright 1973 ECKANKAR, Original copyright 1973 by Gail A. Twitchell;
      > copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1982, 5th Printing-1983, p. 117, 2nd
      > paragraph.
      >
      > Are Gopal Das, Lai Tsi and Rebazar Tarzs all Jesus? Wait just a minute.
      > Don't forget Yaubl Sacabi.
      >
      > Here's another interesting quote (search the link pages for
      > corresponding quotes).
      >
      > TKTE - p. 40
      >
      > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit?pli=1
      >
      > PTP p. 21
      >
      > http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith
      >
      > Notice how Jesus and Father - in Goldsmith's version - appear where Eck
      > Master Yaubl Sacabi & Sugmad appear in Twitchell's version. Notice also
      > the many words in Twitchell's version similar to those in Goldsmith's
      > version.
      >
      > Are they all Jesus? The earlier versions don't mention Eck Masters. By
      > the looks of it those Eck Masters were used to cover-up the earlier
      > text.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 6:49 pm
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Becoming a New Member and/or
      > Posting Comments on this site:
      >
      >  
      > Hello All,
      > Thanks for sharing and
      > bringing up this subject.
      > Many H.I.s, unfortunately
      > for them, feel rather aloof
      > and spiritually advanced
      > due to the "number" on
      > their EK membership cards.
      >
      > They are deluded enough
      > to think that this number
      > is an indication of Higher
      > Con because the liar Twitchell
      > said it was in order to
      > sell more memberships
      > and materials. Klemp
      > continues the lie!
      >
      > The biggest argument for
      > these deluded people are
      > the few stories told of Twit,
      > Klemp, Rebazar, etc. were
      > seen somewhere on the
      > streets, etc. or in a dream
      > before these newbies saw
      > their pictures and were
      > told that these were EK
      > "Masters."
      >
      > Klemp has even revamped
      > people's experiences of having
      > seen Jesus by having Ekists
      > show them pics of Gopal Das,
      > whereby, they suddenly realized
      > that it wasn't Jesus after all.
      > It was a mistake in identity
      > and was actually Gopal Das
      > whom they saw!
      >
      > The truth is most H.I.s have
      > little to no actual spiritual
      > experiences or dreams and
      > they grab at straws. The
      > amount of experiences are
      > no more than any other group
      > that focuses upon mental
      > techniques during meditation
      > or before going to sleep.
      >
      > As with all religions it is
      > a matter of faith and belief
      > and Klemp has even mentioned
      > that was this was the real
      > key to Eckankar.
      >
      > I remember once that Klemp
      > told 4th initiates to hang out
      > with 5ths and 6ths as a way
      > to share in their consciousness
      > and prepare for their 5th. One
      > person I knew quit hanging
      > out with her non-H.I. friends
      > and even looked down her nose
      > at lower initiates (like herself).
      >
      > Basically, as it is within any
      > hierarchy, the long timers
      > want to see the newbies go
      > through the same amount
      > of crap they had to go through.
      > It's jealously and envy.
      >
      > These H.I.s don't know anymore
      > about spiritual matters than
      > the next person because it's
      > all subjective.
      >
      > Basically, old outdated techniques
      > like focusing upon the Third-
      > Eye versus the Crown chakra
      > will never be changed even
      > though an older EK discourse
      > uses the Crown Chakra technique.
      >
      > Other than that it's all about
      > selling and supporting Klemp's
      > ego and the EK Organization
      > which is Klemp's inherited
      > vocation and spiritual con.
      >
      > Thus, the survival of the EK
      > Org. and support of Klemp's
      > second rate books will continue
      > to be the central focus of Eckankar
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > Thank you Lady for expressing just how I felt while I was in. You did
      > it so well. Looking back, I am wondering if a lot of high initiates
      > shy away from answering questions for newbies because they are afraid
      > they will say something that is frowned upon by Minneapolis and also
      > like you say show they don't know a lot anyway. When I was very new
      > and would talk about some experience I had, I often wondered if it was
      > jealousy that made some of them snap at me because I did so. It was
      > kind of like as a newbie, they couldn't tolerate you having experiences
      > they had not had. Thanks again for your posting.
      >
      > Lady wrote:
      >
      > Hello Prometheus et al. The reason I joined this group mostly is
      > because I was curious. I was actually googling the "Hu" looking for
      > some history behind it other than what Eck says it is and this came up.
      > I still enjoy singing the Hu, but I like chanting and doing chakra
      > clearing, etc. But, wow, I was so surprised to find out there were
      > people who felt about Eck like I did. I wasn't in it very long, but
      > having been a seeker for such a long time, I just had this feeling
      > somethings were just off. The biggest red flags for me was when I would
      > ask a higher intiate any questions, I just got the brush off and
      > eventually realized that most of them probably didn't know much more
      > than I did. I was born into the Catholic church, and I felt like every
      > time I asked a question, it was like I was committing a 'sin.' LOL!!!
      > But, I was looking for spiritual truth, not someone else's philosophy,
      > and although I felt that most of the people were nice and polite
      > enough, there was no re al substance, just regurgitated words of the
      > same thing. I have no animosity toward HK or Eck, probably because I
      > wasn't in that long, but it's nice to know I'm not deluded...which is
      > how I felt they were treating me when I wanted to know more. It's like
      > thinking I'm crazy when I finally come to realize everyone else around
      > me is and I'm the only sane one...It reminds me of the Twilight Zone
      > episode where this beautiful girl's face is wrapped in gauze, and the
      > doctors come in with surgical masks on and tell her they did their
      > best, but there was nothing they could do, that she would remain ugly
      > for the rest of her life, and they take their masks off and all have
      > pig faces...anyway. We can only hope the best for those still caught in
      > the deception, but I believe somewhere in their 'knower' that they know
      > the truth or will figure it out. Rowan.
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Please POST (no emails please) "Why"
      > > you want to join this site (ESA) and
      > > whether you have: any connections
      > > to Eckankar; know any ECKists; have
      > > a story involving Eckankar; have opinions
      > > & insights involving Harold Klemp
      > > and/or Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Prometheus
      >
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