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6372Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Sep 8, 2012
      I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for eck members to excuse his nut side when he will under go surgery and take lots of meds but then again, he talks against an inoculation for "religious reasons".  Makes him sound like an uneducated backwards nerd.  That means fewer potential new members.  I like it!

      --- On Thu, 9/6/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, September 6, 2012, 8:42 PM

      Hello Postekcon and All,

      On another note is the topic
      about inoculations. I would
      really like to hear some comments
      and POVs concerning this.

      Klemp refused an (unknown)
      inoculation at the hospital and
      used the excuse that it was
      a "Religious Issue" when there
      is absolutely no Religious Policy
      concerning inoculations that
      ECKANKAR has ever stated:

      HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      for us; the inoculation would
      pose an unacceptable threat to
      our health."

      Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
      (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

      If he had an allergic reaction to
      this he could use that as the reason
      not to get it, but that's not the case.
      Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
      getting this vaccine.

      Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
      those 65 and older), a pneumonia
      shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
      60 and older)? What was it that
      made this a "Religious Issue" when
      it's never been mentioned before
      by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

      Now, I can see how it might be
      a personal choice because many
      people have fears of inoculations
      or of needles in general. The CDC
      website, or Walgreens, will give
      people info on prescription drugs
      and on inoculations.

      However, for Klemp to say that
      this was a "Religious Issue" is,
      in my opinion, an attempt to
      save face.

      Klemp can't really admit that
      he has a fear that a life threatening
      reaction might occur. Maybe
      one in a million people could
      be negatively affected depending
      upon their overall health, but
      that's a minute risk compared
      to the illness or malady that
      the inoculation is preventing.

      How would it look for the
      religious leader of this small
      local cult to be fearful of
      the negligible side-effects
      of this vaccine and imagine
      this story being told to others!

      But, for a religious leader
      to decline the inoculation
      by saying it's a "Religious
      Issue" to someone who
      doesn't know anything about
      Eckankar's dogma/belief
      is a more acceptable tactic,
      although, still somewhat

      Imagine the effort that EK
      Vahanas are making in
      order to present Eckankar
      as a normal religion with
      no strange behaviors or
      sacrifices, etc. and saying
      "We're just like you" then,
      have Klemp pull this "Religious
      Issue" card on the nursing

      One might think, What kind
      of an ignorant, fearful, and
      antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

      Since Klemp had surgery on
      his broken hip and hardware
      put in and maybe a blood
      supplied, anesthesia, various
      drugs and a lot of pain medication
      one has to wonder why he
      declined this vaccine and
      claimed that inoculations (in
      general?) were against his

      I doubt that Klemp found
      out which drugs and anesthesia
      would be used for his surgery
      and recovery process to manage
      pain etc. and researched their
      side-effects and dangers.

      By being the LEM/Mahanta
      he can't just say it's a "religious
      issue" for him and Joan.

      It has now become a "Religious
      Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
      I doubt that many ECKists
      noticed his comments or if
      they did they certainly can't
      ask too many, if any, questions
      about this "Religious Issue"
      and dogma that has never
      before been revealed. And,
      by not mentioning which
      "inoculation" it still hasn't
      been revealed!

      p.s. To Postekcon:
      Yes, it seems that ECKists
      don't get credit for being
      "servants," i.e. volunteers,
      within their communities.
      It doesn't count toward
      that next initiation. RESAs
      notice these things and
      unless you're a high profile
      professional, i.e. lawyer,
      doctor, or architect, one
      must become an EK volunteer
      in order to advance with
      more and higher initiations.

      Plus, Klemp has slowed
      down the initiation process
      by tying them into physical
      requirements such as
      additional training and
      duties which are, of course,
      voluntary if you want to
      become a cleric, initiator,
      spiritual aide, or RESA.
      And, these titles are tied
      into higher initiations.

      postekcon wrote:
      You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

      A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
      'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

      This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
      the other!

      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
      it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
      heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
      Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

      prometheus wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > I thought I'd bring
      > this back to the front
      > page----and share
      > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
      > from the 09/2012
      > The Mystic World.
      > HK starts off by
      > saying that Eckankar
      > is for "lovers of life"
      > and that people need
      > not worry by thinking
      > it is a requirement
      > to sacrifice your life
      > to be a Co-worker
      > with the Mahanta.
      > Klemp then poses
      > some "What If" questions.
      > Like, what if an astroid
      > hit causing devastation.
      > What would you do?
      > "My words here are not
      > a foreshadowing of a
      > planetary disaster, BUT
      > a gentle reminder that
      > we exist to serve others."
      > Well, there it is again.
      > Another pitch for service!
      > Klemp needs his volunteer
      > sales staff.
      > Klemp even brings up what
      > happened to the Atlanteans
      > since they "turned from love
      > and service to a grab for
      > power and conquest." See
      > what happens when ECKists
      > don't volunteer! Plus, an
      > ECKist volunteering would
      > equate to how many non-
      > ECKists not volunteering?
      > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
      > tanks for the world's Karma?
      > However, HK does alleviate
      > some possible fears/concerns
      > by saying "a global disaster
      > need not happen." So, be of
      > service!
      > "The mental energies of a
      > people turned toward evil
      > do rebound upon them. It
      > is called national karma."
      > It would seem that this same
      > "rebound karma" would apply
      > to religions as well. It is called
      > religious karma.
      > Here's something he says
      > regarding the negative forces
      > that applies to himself, too,
      > and yet he doesn't see the
      > irony in his words. "... so is
      > it any wonder that the few
      > command the many and are
      > apt to show a blatant disregard
      > for the wishes of the latter."
      > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
      > of himself. He's a tyrant who
      > can't and won't accept constructive
      > criticism. It's a One-Way street
      > and it runs his way! ECKists
      > aren't permitted to have differing
      > views... he's always right,
      > although, he claims not to
      > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
      > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
      > nature of power in the hands
      > of spiritual adolescents. So we
      > see more autocratic or tyrannical
      > rulers than good or wise ones
      > who rule according to the law
      > of divine love."
      > See, I told you that Klemp can't
      > look into the mirror and see the
      > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
      > self!
      > HK then talks to ECKists about
      > choosing between following:
      > "God's law or man's law. There
      > will be consequences.... for civil
      > disobedience... Again, God's law
      > or man's law? The issue for an
      > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
      > Yet, look at what freedoms
      > ECKists have within ECKankar!
      > Not that many... it's a power
      > based hierarchy ruled locally
      > by the RESAs' Police Force.
      > And, let's ponder whether
      > these ECK Laws are all that
      > "high." In fact they are all of
      > the Mental Plane and were,
      > thus, created by mankind.
      > Plus, "God" is actually the
      > KAL (according to Eckankar)
      > and is the Negative Force
      > in charge of the earth.
      > ***************************
      > This next paragraph is a real
      > eye-opener! Did you know
      > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
      > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
      > Klemp mentions, that while
      > in the hospital with his broken
      > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
      > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      > for us; the inoculation would
      > pose an unacceptable threat
      > to our health."
      > It's kind of strange that Klemp
      > didn't mention which inoculation
      > was an issue. All inoculations
      > or just certain ones like the Flu
      > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
      > It would be nice to know.
      > However, why is the Mahanta/
      > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
      > inoculation? Is being a "lover
      > of life," also, being fearful
      > of death? It seems so! And,
      > Klemp is 70 years old and
      > showing his age.
      > Anyway, Klemp says some
      > more things we've all, basically,
      > heard before and ends with:
      > "As always, the fires of karma
      > burn ever so hot and bright,
      > leaving each Soul ever more
      > spiritually refined." Klemp,
      > then, signs off with an
      > "Affectionately, Harold"
      > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
      > because of possible karmic
      > retribution? Is his "Holding
      > Tank" full? If it was up to
      > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
      > Harry and spread his disease
      > everywhere. What about being
      > the cause for negativity?
      > Also, I find it interesting that
      > Klemp ends by saying:
      > "Affectionately, Harold"
      > I was looking at Twitchell's
      > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
      > end them with "My Love Is
      > Always With You" or "My
      > Love Protects You."
      > Thus, when Klemp talks
      > about "the law of divine
      > love" it's strange that he
      > ends the article with,
      > "Affectionately."
      > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
      > ruler and tyrant... and
      > spiritual adolescent"
      > that he talked about.
      > This is why HK is fearful
      > of inoculations and hides
      > behind "religious beliefs."
      > He cannot be Detached
      > when he refuses inoculations
      > that others, like I, get. I'm
      > not fearful and I've read
      > the literature with the side-
      > effects. This is the main
      > reason he doesn't mention
      > which inoculation he refused.
      > If it has to do with religious
      > beliefs... what law of God
      > justifies this fearful omission
      > that could, also, jeopardize
      > the health of others?
      > Prometheus
      > *********************
      > In the 09/2012 The
      > Mystic World, Klemp
      > tells of his hospital
      > experience with the
      > nursing staff.
      > BTW- Notice HK's use
      > of BUT and reference
      > my previous post about
      > the use of IF, AND,
      > and especially BUT.
      > I'll comment on the
      > excerpts:
      > Klemp begins with his
      > story by making it seem
      > that his accident was
      > tied into being a channel
      > for the Holy Spirit.
      > If asked, would you do
      > anything for the Holy
      > Spirit? And most would
      > respond, Yes, of course!
      > "BUT what IF it meant
      > a complete change in
      > your way of doing nearly
      > everything?
      > Notice the use of "BUT"
      > and "IF?" Two words EKists
      > are Not to use when
      > communicating with
      > one another.
      > So, Klemp is setting us
      > up with his broken-hip
      > injury, caused by a fall
      > on "black ice," to be
      > something special and
      > spiritual.
      > In fact, life happens!
      > Everyone goes through
      > injuries, pain, and suffering.
      > Klemp is making it seem
      > like his injury was because
      > he's what? Taking on the
      > Karma of his chelas and,
      > thus, he slips and falls?
      > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
      > is a Waking Dream telling
      > ECKists that Klemp has
      > Fallen from Grace! And,
      > the "Black Ice" is telling
      > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
      > like Darwin was! Darwin
      > did give the Rod of Power
      > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
      > and initiated him with
      > several other Higher Initiations.
      > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
      > (twice, circa 1981-82)
      > in a Sound Proof Dark
      > Room where HK worked.
      > The Light and Sound was
      > kept out of this room
      > while they were preparing
      > for the transition. And,
      > it was Klemp's idea to
      > meet there, and Darwin
      > hesitated when learning
      > it had been previously
      > been converted to a
      > Sound Proof room and
      > was used as a Dark Room
      > by Klemp. However, Gross
      > overlooked his inner nudge
      > and paid the price!
      > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
      > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
      > Physical Therapist; Lori,
      > the Occupational Therapist;
      > Dora, the West African
      > Nurse's Aide.
      > Of course, Klemp claims
      > that everyone was talking
      > about the leader of Eckankar
      > falling on black ice and
      > breaking his hip.
      > BTW- Klemp is pictured
      > at the 2012 EK Springtime
      > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
      > Anywho, HK talks about
      > Faye, nutrition, and states:
      > "BUT Faye, a member of
      > the Assembly of God church,
      > was determined to be the
      > complete professional. No
      > biases."
      > Apparently Klemp feels the
      > need to give some background
      > on these people to make it
      > sound like he cares about
      > them. What Klemp fails to
      > see is that ECKist, or not,
      > we are all put into these
      > same scenarios or similar
      > situations and make small
      > talk and friends with those
      > who are taking care of us.
      > Klemp, then, mentions that
      > some of Faye's co-workers
      > didn't understand their easy
      > "banter" and thought she was
      > being disrespectful since HK
      > was a preacher, of sorts, and
      > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
      > a glowing commendation about
      > her healing laughter, care,
      > compassion, and understanding."
      > Klemp says, "Do with me as
      > you please." Although, the
      > title of this front page article
      > is "Do With Me As You Will"
      > which is promoting HK's accident
      > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
      > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
      > the sufferings of others because
      > he has always lacked empathy!
      > "Again, the EK had done with me
      > as It would, to better touch Souls
      > ready for the journey home to
      > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
      > whereas, Sugmad is different?
      > This is an official EK Pub so why
      > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
      > actually mean God!
      > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
      > his physical therapist. She
      > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
      > this time our divorce will be
      > final." Klemp responds with,
      > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
      > her shoulders indifferently
      > and says, "I guess."
      > Klemp shares his wisdom
      > of this while overlooking
      > the obvious hurt and doubts
      > that Holly is going through
      > by saying, "For her, the past
      > is the past; the present is
      > busy enough. Dear Holly."
      > To me this is a feeble attempt
      > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
      > past isn't the past, especially,
      > when children are involved.
      > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
      > occupational therapist.
      > He tells about her hunting
      > small game and recounts
      > a story she told that a cougar
      > once stalked her and her
      > husband. "BUT Lori does not
      > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
      > animal. She hunts for meat."
      > I guess that makes it okay
      > to kill.
      > Now comes Dora, the West
      > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
      > She brought ice for Harry's
      > hip and relayed messages
      > to the RN to bring "more
      > pain medication." "BUT Dora
      > did more, much more. When
      > the pain became nearly unbearable,
      > she laid a warm, encouraging
      > hand on my shoulder. Her
      > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
      > Odd that Klemp was in so
      > much pain. One would think
      > that a 14th Initiate could HU
      > it away!
      > Anyway, Joan came and picked
      > Harry up with some top ESC
      > staffers. And Klemp ends his
      > "tribute to a few of many
      > beautiful people in the healing
      > field" with these words:
      > "And, Spirit of all living things,
      > I live to hallow Your name
      > among lost and wandering
      > Souls. So do with me as You
      > will."
      > Klemp's con, along with his
      > delusion and narcissism, is
      > making this sound like
      > he's beseeching Spirit in
      > a prayer and giving thanks
      > that he can help "lost Souls"
      > by touching people with
      > his common everyday words
      > and presence... like everyone
      > else does in life. Except,
      > HK is more special than
      > other Souls because he's
      > the M/LEM of a false
      > teaching that pretends it's
      > "Spiritual."
      > What's funny is that Klemp
      > thinks he's giving EKists
      > a pep talk and is showing
      > them how they should act
      > or respond to people if they
      > are in situations similar to
      > his as a result of Karma,
      > tests, and/or as channels
      > for Spirit.
      > What Klemp is clueless of,
      > and doesn't know, is that
      > most EKists and even more
      > non-ECKists have already
      > responded in ways surpassing
      > Klemp's experience with his
      > non-lifethreatening injury.
      > Prometheus

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