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6371Re: HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!

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  • Non
    Sep 8, 2012
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      Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick million $'s by contacting James Randy, the Skeptic. I wonder if Klemp also believes that female ekists can shut that whole pregnancy thing down if they are "legitimately" raped. LOL

      Interesting that many Scientists have done more good in the world than any fake eck master.

      Non ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      Hello Postekcon and All,
      Here's what I found on
      the polio vaccines:

      "How is the vaccine administered?

      IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
      OPV is given as an oral liquid.

      OPV is no longer used in the United States,
      but is still given in other parts of the world
      where polio is common.

      Why was the U.S. polio immunization
      recommendation changed from OPV
      to IPV?

      The change to an all-IPV schedule
      in the United States occurred because
      the Few Cases of polio that were
      occurring (8-10 per year) were
      caused by the OPV vaccine itself
      and not the wild virus.

      The change to IPV protects
      individuals against paralytic polio,
      while eliminating the small chance
      (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
      of Actually Contracting Polio From
      The Live Oral Vaccine.

      OPV is better at stopping the spread
      of the virus to others, but now that
      wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
      from the Western Hemisphere, this
      advantage is no longer a consideration
      in the United States.

      IPV has been used exclusively
      in the United States since 2000.
      However, in other countries
      where wild polio is still a threat,
      OPV is still used."

      So, whether urban legend, an
      old wives tales, superstition
      misinformation or mitigating
      circumstances the numbers
      don't match. For instance, the
      above information states that
      Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
      will a person contract polio
      from the Live Oral Vaccine.

      Therefore, 47,000 cases could
      not have been vaccine induced,
      unless, the vaccine was stored
      improperly and became contaminated
      and/or inert.

      Anyhow, the point I was making
      is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
      stating that vaccines Should Not
      be taken because it would "pose
      an unacceptable threat to our
      health." Therefore how is this
      a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
      when it's never been documented
      as an issue?

      Does this mean that EK children
      should not be vaccinated due
      to Religious Rules/Issues?

      When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
      policies like Christian Science?

      Besides, these ad hoc policies
      that Klemp seems to be creating
      are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
      into the dangers or side-effects
      of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
      used.

      Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
      and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
      to relay his request for more "when
      the pain became nearly unbearable."
      If anyone has taken strong prescription
      pain medication and reads the description
      and side-effects they will see that
      there can be many risks to one's
      health.

      What, according to Klemp, makes
      one drug acceptable while others
      "pose an unacceptable threat to
      our health?"

      And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
      some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
      and these can be dangerous to take
      too.

      However, when it comes to some
      unknown inoculation he balks and
      plays the religious card as an excuse
      for his ignorance and fear.

      Prometheus






      "postekcon" wrote:
      >
      >
      > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are
      usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like
      the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings.
      When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they
      became high profile fads for a while.
      >
      > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in
      class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no
      one discussed WHY!
      >
      > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is
      currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000
      new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
      > -Postekcon
      >
      >
      "prometheus_wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Postekcon and All,
      > >
      > > On another note is the topic
      > > about inoculations. I would
      > > really like to hear some comments
      > > and POVs concerning this.
      > >
      > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
      > > inoculation at the hospital and
      > > used the excuse that it was
      > > a "Religious Issue" when there
      > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
      > > concerning inoculations that
      > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
      > >
      > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      > > for us; the inoculation would
      > > pose an unacceptable threat to
      > > our health."
      > >
      > >
      > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
      > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
      > >
      > > If he had an allergic reaction to
      > > this he could use that as the reason
      > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
      > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
      > > getting this vaccine.
      > >
      > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
      > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
      > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
      > > 60 and older)? What was it that
      > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
      > > it's never been mentioned before
      > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
      > >
      > > Now, I can see how it might be
      > > a personal choice because many
      > > people have fears of inoculations
      > > or of needles in general. The CDC
      > > website, or Walgreens, will give
      > > people info on prescription drugs
      > > and on inoculations.
      > >
      > > However, for Klemp to say that
      > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
      > > in my opinion, an attempt to
      > > save face.
      > >
      > > Klemp can't really admit that
      > > he has a fear that a life threatening
      > > reaction might occur. Maybe
      > > one in a million people could
      > > be negatively affected depending
      > > upon their overall health, but
      > > that's a minute risk compared
      > > to the illness or malady that
      > > the inoculation is preventing.
      > >
      > > How would it look for the
      > > religious leader of this small
      > > local cult to be fearful of
      > > the negligible side-effects
      > > of this vaccine and imagine
      > > this story being told to others!
      > >
      > > But, for a religious leader
      > > to decline the inoculation
      > > by saying it's a "Religious
      > > Issue" to someone who
      > > doesn't know anything about
      > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
      > > is a more acceptable tactic,
      > > although, still somewhat
      > > strange.
      > >
      > > Imagine the effort that EK
      > > Vahanas are making in
      > > order to present Eckankar
      > > as a normal religion with
      > > no strange behaviors or
      > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
      > > "We're just like you" then,
      > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
      > > Issue" card on the nursing
      > > staff!
      > >
      > > One might think, What kind
      > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
      > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
      > >
      > > Since Klemp had surgery on
      > > his broken hip and hardware
      > > put in and maybe a blood
      > > supplied, anesthesia, various
      > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
      > > one has to wonder why he
      > > declined this vaccine and
      > > claimed that inoculations (in
      > > general?) were against his
      > > Religion!
      > >
      > > I doubt that Klemp found
      > > out which drugs and anesthesia
      > > would be used for his surgery
      > > and recovery process to manage
      > > pain etc. and researched their
      > > side-effects and dangers.
      > >
      > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
      > > he can't just say it's a "religious
      > > issue" for him and Joan.
      > >
      > > It has now become a "Religious
      > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
      > > I doubt that many ECKists
      > > noticed his comments or if
      > > they did they certainly can't
      > > ask too many, if any, questions
      > > about this "Religious Issue"
      > > and dogma that has never
      > > before been revealed. And,
      > > by not mentioning which
      > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
      > > been revealed!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > > p.s. To Postekcon:
      > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
      > > don't get credit for being
      > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
      > > within their communities.
      > > It doesn't count toward
      > > that next initiation. RESAs
      > > notice these things and
      > > unless you're a high profile
      > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
      > > doctor, or architect, one
      > > must become an EK volunteer
      > > in order to advance with
      > > more and higher initiations.
      > >
      > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
      > > down the initiation process
      > > by tying them into physical
      > > requirements such as
      > > additional training and
      > > duties which are, of course,
      > > voluntary if you want to
      > > become a cleric, initiator,
      > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
      > > And, these titles are tied
      > > into higher initiations.
      > > [end]
      > >
      > > postekcon wrote:
      > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
      > >
      > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
      > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
      > >
      > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion
      of
      > > the other!
      > > -Postekcon
      > >
      > >
      > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > > >
      > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
      > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
      > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
      > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > I thought I'd bring
      > > > this back to the front
      > > > page----and share
      > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
      > > > from the 09/2012
      > > > The Mystic World.
      > > >
      > > > HK starts off by
      > > > saying that Eckankar
      > > > is for "lovers of life"
      > > > and that people need
      > > > not worry by thinking
      > > > it is a requirement
      > > > to sacrifice your life
      > > > to be a Co-worker
      > > > with the Mahanta.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp then poses
      > > > some "What If" questions.
      > > > Like, what if an astroid
      > > > hit causing devastation.
      > > > What would you do?
      > > >
      > > > "My words here are not
      > > > a foreshadowing of a
      > > > planetary disaster, BUT
      > > > a gentle reminder that
      > > > we exist to serve others."
      > > >
      > > > Well, there it is again.
      > > > Another pitch for service!
      > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
      > > > sales staff.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp even brings up what
      > > > happened to the Atlanteans
      > > > since they "turned from love
      > > > and service to a grab for
      > > > power and conquest." See
      > > > what happens when ECKists
      > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
      > > > ECKist volunteering would
      > > > equate to how many non-
      > > > ECKists not volunteering?
      > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
      > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
      > > > However, HK does alleviate
      > > > some possible fears/concerns
      > > > by saying "a global disaster
      > > > need not happen." So, be of
      > > > service!
      > > >
      > > > "The mental energies of a
      > > > people turned toward evil
      > > > do rebound upon them. It
      > > > is called national karma."
      > > >
      > > > It would seem that this same
      > > > "rebound karma" would apply
      > > > to religions as well. It is called
      > > > religious karma.
      > > >
      > > > Here's something he says
      > > > regarding the negative forces
      > > > that applies to himself, too,
      > > > and yet he doesn't see the
      > > > irony in his words. "... so is
      > > > it any wonder that the few
      > > > command the many and are
      > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
      > > > for the wishes of the latter."
      > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
      > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
      > > > can't and won't accept constructive
      > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
      > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
      > > > aren't permitted to have differing
      > > > views... he's always right,
      > > > although, he claims not to
      > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
      > > >
      > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
      > > > nature of power in the hands
      > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
      > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
      > > > rulers than good or wise ones
      > > > who rule according to the law
      > > > of divine love."
      > > >
      > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
      > > > look into the mirror and see the
      > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
      > > > self!
      > > >
      > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
      > > > choosing between following:
      > > > "God's law or man's law. There
      > > > will be consequences.... for civil
      > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
      > > > or man's law? The issue for an
      > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
      > > >
      > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
      > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
      > > > Not that many... it's a power
      > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
      > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
      > > >
      > > > And, let's ponder whether
      > > > these ECK Laws are all that
      > > > "high." In fact they are all of
      > > > the Mental Plane and were,
      > > > thus, created by mankind.
      > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
      > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
      > > > and is the Negative Force
      > > > in charge of the earth.
      > > >
      > > > ***************************
      > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
      > > >
      > > > This next paragraph is a real
      > > > eye-opener! Did you know
      > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
      > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
      > > >
      > > > Klemp mentions, that while
      > > > in the hospital with his broken
      > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      > > > for us; the inoculation would
      > > > pose an unacceptable threat
      > > > to our health."
      > > >
      > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
      > > > didn't mention which inoculation
      > > > was an issue. All inoculations
      > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
      > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
      > > > It would be nice to know.
      > > >
      > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
      > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
      > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
      > > > of life," also, being fearful
      > > > of death? It seems so! And,
      > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
      > > > showing his age.
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
      > > > more things we've all, basically,
      > > > heard before and ends with:
      > > > "As always, the fires of karma
      > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
      > > > leaving each Soul ever more
      > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
      > > > then, signs off with an
      > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
      > > >
      > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
      > > > because of possible karmic
      > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
      > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
      > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
      > > > Harry and spread his disease
      > > > everywhere. What about being
      > > > the cause for negativity?
      > > >
      > > > Also, I find it interesting that
      > > > Klemp ends by saying:
      > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
      > > >
      > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
      > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
      > > > end them with "My Love Is
      > > > Always With You" or "My
      > > > Love Protects You."
      > > >
      > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
      > > > about "the law of divine
      > > > love" it's strange that he
      > > > ends the article with,
      > > > "Affectionately."
      > > >
      > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
      > > > ruler and tyrant... and
      > > > spiritual adolescent"
      > > > that he talked about.
      > > >
      > > > This is why HK is fearful
      > > > of inoculations and hides
      > > > behind "religious beliefs."
      > > > He cannot be Detached
      > > > when he refuses inoculations
      > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
      > > > not fearful and I've read
      > > > the literature with the side-
      > > > effects. This is the main
      > > > reason he doesn't mention
      > > > which inoculation he refused.
      > > >
      > > > If it has to do with religious
      > > > beliefs... what law of God
      > > > justifies this fearful omission
      > > > that could, also, jeopardize
      > > > the health of others?
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > > *********************
      > > > In the 09/2012 The
      > > > Mystic World, Klemp
      > > > tells of his hospital
      > > > experience with the
      > > > nursing staff.
      > > >
      > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
      > > > of BUT and reference
      > > > my previous post about
      > > > the use of IF, AND,
      > > > and especially BUT.
      > > >
      > > > I'll comment on the
      > > > excerpts:
      > > >
      > > > Klemp begins with his
      > > > story by making it seem
      > > > that his accident was
      > > > tied into being a channel
      > > > for the Holy Spirit.
      > > >
      > > > If asked, would you do
      > > > anything for the Holy
      > > > Spirit? And most would
      > > > respond, Yes, of course!
      > > >
      > > > "BUT what IF it meant
      > > > a complete change in
      > > > your way of doing nearly
      > > > everything?
      > > >
      > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
      > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
      > > > are Not to use when
      > > > communicating with
      > > > one another.
      > > >
      > > > So, Klemp is setting us
      > > > up with his broken-hip
      > > > injury, caused by a fall
      > > > on "black ice," to be
      > > > something special and
      > > > spiritual.
      > > >
      > > > In fact, life happens!
      > > > Everyone goes through
      > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
      > > > Klemp is making it seem
      > > > like his injury was because
      > > > he's what? Taking on the
      > > > Karma of his chelas and,
      > > > thus, he slips and falls?
      > > >
      > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
      > > > is a Waking Dream telling
      > > > ECKists that Klemp has
      > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
      > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
      > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
      > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
      > > > did give the Rod of Power
      > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
      > > > and initiated him with
      > > > several other Higher Initiations.
      > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
      > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
      > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
      > > > Room where HK worked.
      > > > The Light and Sound was
      > > > kept out of this room
      > > > while they were preparing
      > > > for the transition. And,
      > > > it was Klemp's idea to
      > > > meet there, and Darwin
      > > > hesitated when learning
      > > > it had been previously
      > > > been converted to a
      > > > Sound Proof room and
      > > > was used as a Dark Room
      > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
      > > > overlooked his inner nudge
      > > > and paid the price!
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
      > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
      > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
      > > > the Occupational Therapist;
      > > > Dora, the West African
      > > > Nurse's Aide.
      > > >
      > > > Of course, Klemp claims
      > > > that everyone was talking
      > > > about the leader of Eckankar
      > > > falling on black ice and
      > > > breaking his hip.
      > > >
      > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
      > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
      > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
      > > >
      > > > Anywho, HK talks about
      > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
      > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
      > > > the Assembly of God church,
      > > > was determined to be the
      > > > complete professional. No
      > > > biases."
      > > >
      > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
      > > > need to give some background
      > > > on these people to make it
      > > > sound like he cares about
      > > > them. What Klemp fails to
      > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
      > > > we are all put into these
      > > > same scenarios or similar
      > > > situations and make small
      > > > talk and friends with those
      > > > who are taking care of us.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
      > > > some of Faye's co-workers
      > > > didn't understand their easy
      > > > "banter" and thought she was
      > > > being disrespectful since HK
      > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
      > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
      > > > a glowing commendation about
      > > > her healing laughter, care,
      > > > compassion, and understanding."
      > > >
      > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
      > > > you please." Although, the
      > > > title of this front page article
      > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
      > > > which is promoting HK's accident
      > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
      > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
      > > > the sufferings of others because
      > > > he has always lacked empathy!
      > > >
      > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
      > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
      > > > ready for the journey home to
      > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
      > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
      > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
      > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
      > > > actually mean God!
      > > >
      > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
      > > > his physical therapist. She
      > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
      > > > this time our divorce will be
      > > > final." Klemp responds with,
      > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
      > > > her shoulders indifferently
      > > > and says, "I guess."
      > > >
      > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
      > > > of this while overlooking
      > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
      > > > that Holly is going through
      > > > by saying, "For her, the past
      > > > is the past; the present is
      > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
      > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
      > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
      > > > past isn't the past, especially,
      > > > when children are involved.
      > > >
      > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
      > > > occupational therapist.
      > > > He tells about her hunting
      > > > small game and recounts
      > > > a story she told that a cougar
      > > > once stalked her and her
      > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
      > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
      > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
      > > > I guess that makes it okay
      > > > to kill.
      > > >
      > > > Now comes Dora, the West
      > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
      > > > She brought ice for Harry's
      > > > hip and relayed messages
      > > > to the RN to bring "more
      > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
      > > > did more, much more. When
      > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
      > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
      > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
      > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
      > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
      > > > much pain. One would think
      > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
      > > > it away!
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
      > > > Harry up with some top ESC
      > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
      > > > "tribute to a few of many
      > > > beautiful people in the healing
      > > > field" with these words:
      > > >
      > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
      > > > I live to hallow Your name
      > > > among lost and wandering
      > > > Souls. So do with me as You
      > > > will."
      > > >
      > > > Klemp's con, along with his
      > > > delusion and narcissism, is
      > > > making this sound like
      > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
      > > > a prayer and giving thanks
      > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
      > > > by touching people with
      > > > his common everyday words
      > > > and presence... like everyone
      > > > else does in life. Except,
      > > > HK is more special than
      > > > other Souls because he's
      > > > the M/LEM of a false
      > > > teaching that pretends it's
      > > > "Spiritual."
      > > >
      > > > What's funny is that Klemp
      > > > thinks he's giving EKists
      > > > a pep talk and is showing
      > > > them how they should act
      > > > or respond to people if they
      > > > are in situations similar to
      > > > his as a result of Karma,
      > > > tests, and/or as channels
      > > > for Spirit.
      > > >
      > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
      > > > and doesn't know, is that
      > > > most EKists and even more
      > > > non-ECKists have already
      > > > responded in ways surpassing
      > > > Klemp's experience with his
      > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > >
      >
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