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6289Re: Why Don't ECKists See the Truth?

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  • prometheus_973
    Aug 5, 2012
      Hello All,
      Thanks again for the insights.
      I think I'll make a few comments
      of my own.

      "Non"eckchains wrote:
      Actually, and unfortunately, I did join eckankar long enough to get a few years
      of discourses and attended some classes, read all the current books and
      articles. A lot of it was paid for by my brother. He got me in a car once acting
      like we were just going for a drive in the country and ended up parking at some
      place in the middle of nowhere to see Darwin Gross give a talk and so on. It was
      weird and a real mind screw. Fortunately, I was in college at some point and of
      course could not adhere to the not reading other books and to memorizing each
      discourse. I even asked a professor of a class on comparative religion what he
      thought. I was so brain washed that I could not head his suggestion that it was
      just a mishmash of a made up mysticism/religion. At one point, I seriously
      thought about sending President Nixon a letter telling him about eckankar,
      thinking that this would set him on the right path to the godhead, blah,

      Ultimately, I asked way too many questions at eck meetings that people started
      getting pissed at me. Of course I took it to mean that there must be something
      wrong with me for having doubts. I did have a tendency for lucid dreaming
      already. But there were so many other types of cults at that time that I became
      very confused by some of the experiences I would have and seeking a therapist
      seemed to be out of the question. Cults make you feel so nuts that you feel like
      there is no one to talk to. It has taken me years to come to terms with all of
      that and the difficulty is unfortunately having to deal with a family member who
      is still in the cult and sees you as a threat to their idiotic authoritarian
      beliefs as an eck drone. eckists see all others as eckists who just don't know
      it yet, and if you actually reject it, well then you are just a conscious agent
      of kal, right?

      ME: It's true that they always
      reflect the blame for your
      questions back at you in order
      to control and manipulate you.
      Klemp never takes responsibility
      for anything that happens within
      Eckankar or within chelas' lives.
      Yet, EKies will pray to him via
      asking the Mahanta (HK's alter
      ego) for parking spaces and
      for answers to their questions,
      or for job decisions and for
      health & prosperity. He's supposed
      to be taking care of his H.I.s
      but it doesn't happen anymore
      for Ekists than it does for
      Christians... actually "miracles"
      happen less for ECKists than
      for Christians. Google and
      compare the testimonials!

      I found some good stuff on this site that has some of Margaret Singer's writings
      on cults of all kinds and recovery.


      noneckster ; )

      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:

      It is a shame your brother would be abusive toward you because you didn't want
      eckankar. I guess they think the more people they can convince, then the more
      right they can feel about believing. It always seemed to me that they only
      abused lower members who didn't bow down and worship them as their superiors.

      ME: It's that way with all religions.
      The more the merrier... not! Yes,
      the more people believing the same
      lies and conforming to the same rules
      and laws is proof, for many, that the
      religion is valid and true. How can
      so many intelligent people be fooled
      an be wrong?

      I don't blame you for resenting it. It is uncalled for from any religious
      sect. I always disliked it when Christians would shovel out their beliefs like
      they couldn't accept anything but their own point of view. Tell your brother
      to follow the example of his beloved leader and check himself into a mental
      institution. Give him material that debunks his eckankar. Maybe eckankar is
      driving some people nuts if they need to get aggressive about it. If he is
      that forceful about it, I would worry about his mental state. Maybe you should
      suggest he gets some counselling since he can't exercise reasonable control
      about his beliefs.

      How they justify the lies that Paul and others told is by saying it was
      necessary to get eckankar established. These are things I was told as a new
      eckist by older eckist. They know you are going to hear about the lies.
      But if you are told another version by eckist first, you are more likely to
      ignore anyone who tries to point out the lies. It is drummed into you that
      eckankar has to be protected from those who just don't understand how great it

      ME: One becomes focused upon
      how to explain questions away
      without considering the premise
      that those uniform explanations
      are inaccurate and are designed
      to be intentionally misleading.

      I think you do become numb about what others say about eckankar when you are
      in. There's a subtle suggestion that eckankar is always under attack by non
      believers. I never heard anyone suggest aggression because of it but it was
      suggested that caution was needed when discussing eckankar with outsiders.
      What I got was that you don't talk about the org but it was okay to talk about
      what the teachings did for you in your own life.

      ME: Well, if you've ever been in an
      ECK booth at a secular event that
      was Not a Psychic Fair or a Body,
      Mind, Spirit Expo or a New Age
      event you might have a different
      experience. I have. Think about
      a 2 1/2 week State Fair with about
      750,000 in attendance. Or, how
      about an EK Booth at a street fair
      across from a major university.
      Anyway, we did come under verbal
      attack from time-to-time. Of course
      we really didn't care if they joined
      or not... that was their karma...
      we did our part by being there
      if nothing else. That reminds me.
      Remember how we were told that
      when we stir up deep seated truth
      that if will affect people negatively
      because they can't handle it. The
      same goes for what we're saying,
      here, about Eckankar. The Truth
      is being stirred up and ECkists
      can't handle it and that's what
      upsets them. Gotta Go... later!

      Besides, you only learn the truth about eckankar in degrees. Newbies aren't
      told how the whole thing works. They count on you getting hooked on the
      written works of eckankar before you learn the truth about how things really

      I take it you never were an eckist and it seems you want to understand how
      they can keep holding on to something based on lies. I think it is because
      like with all spiritual teachings there is enough truth in what they read that
      they think it is worth while. Paul compiled a lot of material that he gathered
      from various sources. There is some good stuff there while there is also a lot
      of contradictions. Some don't care that it was stolen material. It is like
      they think Paul brought all the great teachings together for their benefit.
      The biggest lie in eckankar is that eckankar is an ancient religion and instead
      of Paul stealing from other religions, they believe that other religions evolved
      from the ancient teachings of eckankar and only a select few can hear and see
      that eckankar is the original and true path. Well, that is how it was spoon
      fed to me anyway.

      Now, they even advertise on TV. What a crock of crap. The great secret
      teachings of eckankar being peddled on TV like just another info-mercial.
      Membership must be way down. Klemp must be getting desperate. Need more
      slaves to bring in more money and continue dragging in new dues paying

      Are eckankar members in general getting more aggressive about increasing their
      numbers? I couldn't say since I don't have any contact with any eckist. That
      would be interesting to know however.

      I got to have one final dig at eckankar so here goes. I remember that
      supposedly, the God man klemp has the ability to control the higher and lower worlds,
      so is it his fault that the whole world economy has gotten so bad? Why doesn't he do
      something about it? Has anyone heard what the great one has to say about it?

      eckchains wrote:

      At what point does deception become self-deception and then it becomes what is
      really just an outright lie. What does it take to lie to yourself? Denial. But
      denial pays a price at some point. At first there may be some discomfort or even
      pain. So to deny must involve some level of numbing out, covering up, becoming
      ever more deluded.
      My brother was quite forceful in his attempts to get me involved in eckankar
      and to be a member. He became quite nasty about it even and still is. Yes,
      denial is the root of hypocrisy, an attempt to not feel the harm they do to
      others and to themselves. (and then there are those who are just pathological
      and do not feeling normal guilt and this does not keep them up at night or if it
      does it is the fault of their victims somehow)
      Truth to them is just TWISTED.
      noneckster ; )
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