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6186Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Dark Side of ECKankar (Revisited)

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  • etznab@aol.com
    May 5, 2012
      I have the information recorded someplace about Marman's Rebazar Tarzs
      comments. I believe it's on a.r.e. someplace. Give me some time to find
      it ... if you don't find it sooner.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 4:28 pm
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Dark Side of ECKankar

      You have no idea how comforting your comments are to me.  It gives me
      peace of mind to know that others did have them too.  Thank you for
      being such a wise soul.
      Can you give more detail about the conditions that Doug Marman admitted
      that rebazar was imaginary?  To whom did he tell this and why?  The
      circus of eckankar is mind boggling.  The more I hear from experienced
      eckist, the harder it is to believe that it can stand as an
      organization.  It appears like a house of cards.  Do you think more
      people are becoming disenchanted with eckankar and do you think the org
      is losing ground?  I have read they exaggerate their membership by
      counting anyone who has ever attended an eck event.  Any ideas?

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Dark Side of ECKankar
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 7:33 PM

      Hello Janice and All,
      Interesting. I think I'll
      share some comments
      to your insights below.

      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:

      Now that is very interesting.

      I, myself, felt I suffered some kind of an attack about a year or so
      before I got out. I believe it happened because I just wasn't falling
      in line like a good little eckist but maybe I was robbed of energy. My
      experience was that I was just before falling asleep one night and I
      heard a loud voice which used a word I couldn't remember later. I know
      it started with a P.

      Anyway, as this word was being shouted, I got a jolt of some kind and
      then I felt a wave of nausea and weakness. This wasn't a dream but I
      was only half awake. The voice I heard wasn't wimpy sounding klemp. It
      was a strong male voice. A few nights later, I did dream that an ugly
      looking little troll like figure came into my room and stood gazing at
      me through the metal barks on the foot board of my bed. In my dream I
      told it to get out now and never come back. It did.

      Then I started having dreams that portrayed the eck master rebazar as
      being a thief and a con artist. The experience was weird and the dreams
      were even more so. While an early eckist, I guess rebazar was my
      favorite character. He seemed the most spiritual at the time. I found
      it very confusing to have these dreams.

      I began to realize how stale my life had become. I was in a long term
      relationship with a high initiate. I started asking the questions that
      got me yelled at by the area resa. I had read nothing but eck teachings
      since becoming an eckist. I thought while an ekist there was true
      beauty in the teachings."

      ME (Prometheus): I know that
      many of us have had similar
      experiences of being attacked
      by negative entities and having
      to defend ourselves. In this case
      your RESA was, also, one of these
      negative beings. Too bad you
      couldn't protect yourself from
      them, but it's deceptive when
      one has placed trust in a RESA
      by assuming they are always
      positive and always on your side.
      They are as closed minded and
      defensive as is any religionist
      when protecting their dogma
      from too much scrutiny.

      "And so I began to see eckankar with all its manipulation and how it
      attempts to break a person down. I walked away and I started reading
      all the things I would not read as an eckist. It took me about another
      year to start feeling like a normal person. I must say that the attack
      seemed to be aimed at my brain and not my heart as these great ones of
      eckankar claim in theirs writings. It didn't appear to be a positive
      thing and I wondered if an attempt had been made to harm me since I
      wasn't conforming properly. I didn't insult people or even respond to
      them with rudeness but I did maintain my right to privacy on many
      occasions when asked personal questions. Privacy doesn't seem to be
      respected in eckankar and a lot of eckist were usually telling stories
      about the personal lives of other eckist."

      ME: Yes. One has to give-in and give-up.
      Some say, Let-go and Let-God. But, with
      ECKankar they will say to remain skeptical
      until you can "prove it" to yourself. But,
      the catch is that there's a time limit for
      being skeptical. True, when one seeks
      the "Truth" via introspection and uses
      meditation/contemplation one will change
      and see with new eyes, but that's not due
      to any fake Mahanta or borrowed and
      tweaked Sant Mat dogma. One will naturally
      dream and imagine all sorts of things
      when attention is placed upon these
      areas and topics. That's what Twitchell
      and every other conman knew and uses
      and what Klemp continues to use as
      a hook. It's a slight-of-hand deception
      the magician uses while the viewer's
      attention is distracted elsewhere.

      "I think some higher part of me was showing me the truth behind
      eckankar after the attack but I never associated the experience with
      demons. I am not sure demons are real and separate entities. I have
      always felt that a lot of Christians will declare anything evil or
      demonic that threatens their views so if I read what they have to say,
      I dismiss a lot of it. If evil didn't exist then Christianity wouldn't
      have a reason to exist. This article starts out like most religious
      hipe but they did make a few good points about the destructive nature
      of eckankar."

      ME: I'm, also, not so sure that demons
      are real. It could very well be that demons
      are metaphors for those things that bother
      and bind us to negativity, fear, self-doubt
      and even to self-loathing. Actually, isn't
      all religious dogma full of hidden metaphors?
      This is where the fanatics and the fundamentalists
      have problems since they tend to pick and
      choose what is easy for them to believe
      since they tend to be more simple-minded
      and tend to see most everything in literal,
      narrow, terms.

      "I honestly believe that klemp thinks he is the living eck master and
      he thinks he is doing a lot of good. I think he is just the puppet for
      the more scheming higher ups. I really don't s
      see anything really outstanding about klemp at all. That was my biggest
      problem with eckankar. When I would do the gazing at the mahanta thing
      using klemps picture, all I could see was a sickly looking man. He even
      looked miserable. I saw no power. He wasn't charismatic. He wasn't very
      intelligent and he had no creative ability that I could see. He like
      twitchell seemed to need to draw from sources outside of eckankar for
      spiritual inspiration and his attempts were to me at times comical. As
      long as he was being told he was the great eck master, he probably was
      easily controlled by the gang of money hounds making up corporate

      ME: Klemp is the Higher Up.
      He had the by-laws changed
      after he took over from D.G.
      and neither the President nor
      the EK Board has any voting
      authority. Only Klemp can hire
      and fire. The local Satsang
      Societies and local Boards have
      been set up the same (As Above).
      Thus, the RESAs can hire and
      fire the local Presidents and
      Board members and the votes
      of Board members carry no
      authority! The RESA has the
      sole authority, unless, a higher
      authority at the ESC steps in.
      However, when this is done
      it is always with the approval
      of Klemp and under his direction.

      "It is true that eckankar gets rid of things that were written by
      twitchell and others that the average person would think is not
      spiritual. I never heard of twitchells written rantings about his great
      power and influence so by the time I was in, I guess it had been
      removed from print."

      ME: "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living
      ECK Master" was the best book written
      depicting Twitchell's egomaniacal rants.
      There were three interviews done around
      June 1971 while PT was the full blown
      self-proclaimed Mahanta. What's amazing
      is that after all of these years he's still
      lying about his past. Klemp has stated
      on Eckankar.org that Twit was "exaggerating"
      and "twisting facts" to get into Kentucky's
      Who's Who and had never traveled all that
      far from home. Yet, Twitchell (in this June,
      1971 interview), is saying he was almost
      16 years old when he, first, went from
      Paris to India, with his sister, to be with
      Sudar Singh. There are more examples
      that are even more outlandish. Paul's
      comments about how he confused things
      and screwed up paperwork so that he
      could take it easy during the start of
      WWII showed a level of subversion and
      sabotage that even the Nazis couldn't

      "I've never talked about the experience before because I found it so
      confusing and during that time, I wondered if I had gotten a little bit
      nuts to even have those things. Any feed back from more knowledgeable
      eckist would be greatly appreciated. I don't know about demons but it
      was strange and enough to cause the process of breaking the chains of
      eckankar for me. They need more slaves to bring in recruits for more
      money and more influence. I wasn't doing that. I am thankful that
      although I did perform tasks for the local area, I did not drag a
      single soul into eckankar. Well, not that I know of anyway. Guess I
      wasn't a very good eckiest. I wasn't capable of it and I am ashamed of
      myself for ever being a member. Coming out of it, I think most people
      feel dumb, gullible and used."

      ME: I think that we all have to get
      over the guilt and shame of being
      tricked. Look at all of those who
      belong to a religion and donate
      time and money in order to get
      their "feel good" fix. Religions
      are types of opiates... Eckankar
      too! People need to believe in
      something that can give them
      hope and to help them to maintain
      a positive outlook. And, conmen
      know what people want and need.
      Attitude is, also, important but
      there's a fine line between being
      positive and being delusional.
      Sometimes it's difficult to know
      where to draw the line and some
      of us have more difficulty with
      seeing the good versus seeing
      the bad. However, I don't think
      that seeing the glass half-empty
      is always wrong, but it does present
      more of a challenge to overcome.

      "Something else kind of made me realize that eckankar wasn't healthy. I
      am by no means saying that all eckist have mental problems. Some of
      them had a great need to talk to some one. I listened a lot. Anyway, I
      was told by some eckist that they were diagnosed with severe mental
      conditions previously or since becoming eckist. But why couldn't this
      great living eck master help them over come these things or at least
      help them adjust better to the physical world? If the living eck master
      had to go nuts to find his spiritual power does that mean it is
      necessary to become a spiritually enlightened being? Why does klemp
      describe his psychotic episode as something spiritual, when no one with
      a sound mind or high spiritual powers, would remove their clothes in
      public? Not in my opinion anyway. Is it because after being proclaimed
      the living eck master, it might be revealed by the media and so it was
      woven into a spiritual experience as kind of a necessary ordeal? Did he
      go psychotic because he was attempting to follow in twitchells shoes
      and he mentally duplicated twithells experience?"

      ME: I don't believe that Twitchell
      ever needed to jump off a bridge
      and do a strip tease at an airport
      and choose jail or a mental institution
      in order to "find God." Besides, Twit
      was a liar up to the moment of his
      untimely death and, thus, was not
      a "spiritual being." It was all about
      him. Besides, many people have
      done stupid things when confused
      with life and have sought "spiritual
      solutions." If one chose to, one could
      claim that their mental missteps
      and episodes were "spiritual
      experiences" as Klemp has done.
      Klemp is merely doing a 20/20
      hindsight, and PR rewrite, to
      excuse his mental confusion.
      After all, HK's the leader of a
      church and has to be above
      and beyond reproach. It's a
      pretend game where he has
      to, partially, buy into the hype
      in order to seem authentic.

      "I did meet some eckist that I still remember with fondness and who
      appeared to be warm caring human beings. Some appeared to be well
      adjusted people. Also, I just read a posting by an eckist on this
      article that sounded remarkably insightful and loving. Maybe it is
      possible to grow in eckankar."

      ME: I, too, know and remember some
      H.I.s whom I like. They are nice people...
      as long as they don't know who I am.
      That could/would change I'm sure.
      They would feel betrayed and insulted
      and I could understand that, however,
      that, too, would be a "spiritual" test!
      To "grow in eckankar?" Sure, but it's
      not due to Eckankar or because of
      inner guidance by a fake mahanta.
      That crap just gets in the way and
      causes more codependency. Any
      growth or realization leading to
      an expanded awareness is learned
      and earned by the individual. It's
      their own personal and private
      relationship to the Holy Spirit or
      whatever one wants to call this
      divine essence, or not, that leads
      to a divine knowingness and to

      "I had one eckist tell me that he didn't care where the teachings came
      from because they worked for him. I had conversations with several high
      initiates who were aware of the deception in eckankar and simply
      accepted it without any attempts to rationalize it. It appeared that
      the only truth that did exist for a lot of them was what ever seemed
      relevant at the time. One female told me, you take the parts you can
      use and toss the rest. I guess the idea was that with the teachings
      being so vast, it was up to a person to decide for themselves which
      ones to keep. Also, if twitchell made a habit of lying then truth
      wasn't anything concrete at all but something to be manipulated as
      needed. Well, that is what I got any from conversations. I think this
      concept corrodes the moral fiber of a person. Lies should not be
      knowingly condoned."

      ME: Actually, accepting Eckankar
      while knowing about the deceptions
      and lies is rationalizing. It's like,
      if it's not broke why fix it? Or,
      why throw the baby out with the
      (dirty) bath water? Nothing, and
      nobody (Klemp), in the lower worlds
      of KAL is perfect. Thus, if it (Eckankar)
      works why complain? H.I.s have
      put blinders on in order to stay
      the course and maintain their
      prestigious positions which took
      them decades of time and money
      to obtain. Many have rejected, in
      part, HK's RESA structure and the
      ESA Guidelines. Yes, I knew of H.I.s
      that did the same... picked and
      chose what they wanted to follow
      and believe. However, that's not
      the way Eckankar is supposed to
      work. One is supposed to take
      the bait and swallow it hook, line,
      and sinker! Twit, supposedly, took
      only the best from all of the other
      religions and experts, etc. in order
      to create (or bring forth) the EK
      dogma to the modern Western
      world. Thus, how can one pick
      and chose when it's all, supposedly,
      relevant? If a person is not consciously
      following the guidance and the will
      of the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp), then,
      they are heretics!

      "I just believe the good people just refused to see anything other than
      eckankar because they needed to belong to something they view as
      greater than anything else. They are under the eckankar spell. I still
      wouldn't want contact with them though. I just couldn't listen that
      eckankar dribble ever again and I would have to show how sorry I feel
      for them. It would serve no healthy purpose for me or them. So, I just
      remember the good and bless them in my heart."

      ME: True! It's nice to belong.
      Humans are social animals
      and most like to follow in
      one way or another because
      it's easier to follow than to
      lead. Being a follower requires
      less thought and energy. It's
      less demanding, less consuming,
      and is less stressful. It is true
      that the Higher one is with
      initiations, years, and titles
      the more lost that individual
      is. They've bought into it
      to the extreme. Look at Marge
      Klemp! However, the ones
      to really feel sorry for are those
      ESC staffers who know it's all
      a sham and Klemp is a poser,
      but they have to put on an act
      in order to keep their jobs,
      health care, retirement, etc.

      "Anyway, this article named a few people that I am not familiar with. I
      will look them up but any info any of you can share would be
      appreciated. Who is Dave Marman, Bill Schnoebelen and Robert Marsh? Are
      these really old names in eckankar history? Bill Schnoebelen was an
      eckist according to this article. The other two appear to be writers."

      ME: Doug Marman is an old
      friend of Klemp's who's an
      apologist for Eckankar. I think
      he's a 7th. He's got some books
      out there that have overlooked
      many facts and are based upon
      lies and hearsay. What's funny,
      however, is that Doug's stated
      that Twitchell lied about traveling
      to Paris, France to visit his sister
      when it was, actually, Paris, Kentucky.
      And, Marman's stated that Rebazar
      was probably made up by Twitchell.
      After all, PT needed to have
      someone other than Kirpal Singh,
      his real master, initiate him.
      Thus, PT created RT in order to
      initiate himself. Plus, Marman
      has admitted that Twitchell
      created the Mahanta title in
      January 1969. Yet, Marman
      omits all of this information
      in his books!

      "Telling my experience wasn't easy for me. Although I tend to be a
      private person, I felt a need to write it.

      Thanks for giving me the opportunity Prometheus.

      May you all be blessed with good things especially fruitful spiritual

      ME: Thanks for sharing this.
      It was interesting for me to

      prometheus wrote:

      This is an entertaining approach.


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