6181Re: The Dark Side of ECKankar (Revisited)
- May 3, 2012Hello Janice and All,
Interesting. I think I'll
share some comments
to your insights below.
Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
Now that is very interesting.
I, myself, felt I suffered some kind of an attack about a year or so before I got out. I believe it happened because I just wasn't falling in line like a good little eckist but maybe I was robbed of energy. My experience was that I was just before falling asleep one night and I heard a loud voice which used a word I couldn't remember later. I know it started with a P.
Anyway, as this word was being shouted, I got a jolt of some kind and then I felt a wave of nausea and weakness. This wasn't a dream but I was only half awake. The voice I heard wasn't wimpy sounding klemp. It was a strong male voice. A few nights later, I did dream that an ugly looking little troll like figure came into my room and stood gazing at me through the metal barks on the foot board of my bed. In my dream I told it to get out now and never come back. It did.
Then I started having dreams that portrayed the eck master rebazar as being a thief and a con artist. The experience was weird and the dreams were even more so. While an early eckist, I guess rebazar was my favorite character. He seemed the most spiritual at the time. I found it very confusing to have these dreams.
I began to realize how stale my life had become. I was in a long term relationship with a high initiate. I started asking the questions that got me yelled at by the area resa. I had read nothing but eck teachings since becoming an eckist. I thought while an ekist there was true beauty in the teachings."
ME (Prometheus): I know that
many of us have had similar
experiences of being attacked
by negative entities and having
to defend ourselves. In this case
your RESA was, also, one of these
negative beings. Too bad you
couldn't protect yourself from
them, but it's deceptive when
one has placed trust in a RESA
by assuming they are always
positive and always on your side.
They are as closed minded and
defensive as is any religionist
when protecting their dogma
from too much scrutiny.
"And so I began to see eckankar with all its manipulation and how it attempts to break a person down. I walked away and I started reading all the things I would not read as an eckist. It took me about another year to start feeling like a normal person. I must say that the attack seemed to be aimed at my brain and not my heart as these great ones of eckankar claim in theirs writings. It didn't appear to be a positive thing and I wondered if an attempt had been made to harm me since I wasn't conforming properly. I didn't insult people or even respond to them with rudeness but I did maintain my right to privacy on many occasions when asked personal questions. Privacy doesn't seem to be respected in eckankar and a lot of eckist were usually telling stories about the personal lives of other eckist."
ME: Yes. One has to give-in and give-up.
Some say, Let-go and Let-God. But, with
ECKankar they will say to remain skeptical
until you can "prove it" to yourself. But,
the catch is that there's a time limit for
being skeptical. True, when one seeks
the "Truth" via introspection and uses
meditation/contemplation one will change
and see with new eyes, but that's not due
to any fake Mahanta or borrowed and
tweaked Sant Mat dogma. One will naturally
dream and imagine all sorts of things
when attention is placed upon these
areas and topics. That's what Twitchell
and every other conman knew and uses
and what Klemp continues to use as
a hook. It's a slight-of-hand deception
the magician uses while the viewer's
attention is distracted elsewhere.
"I think some higher part of me was showing me the truth behind eckankar after the attack but I never associated the experience with demons. I am not sure demons are real and separate entities. I have always felt that a lot of Christians will declare anything evil or demonic that threatens their views so if I read what they have to say, I dismiss a lot of it. If evil didn't exist then Christianity wouldn't have a reason to exist. This article starts out like most religious hipe but they did make a few good points about the destructive nature of eckankar."
ME: I'm, also, not so sure that demons
are real. It could very well be that demons
are metaphors for those things that bother
and bind us to negativity, fear, self-doubt
and even to self-loathing. Actually, isn't
all religious dogma full of hidden metaphors?
This is where the fanatics and the fundamentalists
have problems since they tend to pick and
choose what is easy for them to believe
since they tend to be more simple-minded
and tend to see most everything in literal,
"I honestly believe that klemp thinks he is the living eck master and he thinks he is doing a lot of good. I think he is just the puppet for the more scheming higher ups. I really don't s
see anything really outstanding about klemp at all. That was my biggest problem with eckankar. When I would do the gazing at the mahanta thing using klemps picture, all I could see was a sickly looking man. He even looked miserable. I saw no power. He wasn't charismatic. He wasn't very intelligent and he had no creative ability that I could see. He like twitchell seemed to need to draw from sources outside of eckankar for spiritual inspiration and his attempts were to me at times comical. As long as he was being told he was the great eck master, he probably was easily controlled by the gang of money hounds making up corporate eckankar."
ME: Klemp is the Higher Up.
He had the by-laws changed
after he took over from D.G.
and neither the President nor
the EK Board has any voting
authority. Only Klemp can hire
and fire. The local Satsang
Societies and local Boards have
been set up the same (As Above).
Thus, the RESAs can hire and
fire the local Presidents and
Board members and the votes
of Board members carry no
authority! The RESA has the
sole authority, unless, a higher
authority at the ESC steps in.
However, when this is done
it is always with the approval
of Klemp and under his direction.
"It is true that eckankar gets rid of things that were written by twitchell and others that the average person would think is not spiritual. I never heard of twitchells written rantings about his great power and influence so by the time I was in, I guess it had been removed from print."
ME: "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living
ECK Master" was the best book written
depicting Twitchell's egomaniacal rants.
There were three interviews done around
June 1971 while PT was the full blown
self-proclaimed Mahanta. What's amazing
is that after all of these years he's still
lying about his past. Klemp has stated
on Eckankar.org that Twit was "exaggerating"
and "twisting facts" to get into Kentucky's
Who's Who and had never traveled all that
far from home. Yet, Twitchell (in this June,
1971 interview), is saying he was almost
16 years old when he, first, went from
Paris to India, with his sister, to be with
Sudar Singh. There are more examples
that are even more outlandish. Paul's
comments about how he confused things
and screwed up paperwork so that he
could take it easy during the start of
WWII showed a level of subversion and
sabotage that even the Nazis couldn't
"I've never talked about the experience before because I found it so confusing and during that time, I wondered if I had gotten a little bit nuts to even have those things. Any feed back from more knowledgeable eckist would be greatly appreciated. I don't know about demons but it was strange and enough to cause the process of breaking the chains of eckankar for me. They need more slaves to bring in recruits for more money and more influence. I wasn't doing that. I am thankful that although I did perform tasks for the local area, I did not drag a single soul into eckankar. Well, not that I know of anyway. Guess I wasn't a very good eckiest. I wasn't capable of it and I am ashamed of myself for ever being a member. Coming out of it, I think most people feel dumb, gullible and used."
ME: I think that we all have to get
over the guilt and shame of being
tricked. Look at all of those who
belong to a religion and donate
time and money in order to get
their "feel good" fix. Religions
are types of opiates... Eckankar
too! People need to believe in
something that can give them
hope and to help them to maintain
a positive outlook. And, conmen
know what people want and need.
Attitude is, also, important but
there's a fine line between being
positive and being delusional.
Sometimes it's difficult to know
where to draw the line and some
of us have more difficulty with
seeing the good versus seeing
the bad. However, I don't think
that seeing the glass half-empty
is always wrong, but it does present
more of a challenge to overcome.
"Something else kind of made me realize that eckankar wasn't healthy. I am by no means saying that all eckist have mental problems. Some of them had a great need to talk to some one. I listened a lot. Anyway, I was told by some eckist that they were diagnosed with severe mental conditions previously or since becoming eckist. But why couldn't this great living eck master help them over come these things or at least help them adjust better to the physical world? If the living eck master had to go nuts to find his spiritual power does that mean it is necessary to become a spiritually enlightened being? Why does klemp describe his psychotic episode as something spiritual, when no one with a sound mind or high spiritual powers, would remove their clothes in public? Not in my opinion anyway. Is it because after being proclaimed the living eck master, it might be revealed by the media and so it was woven into a spiritual experience as kind of a necessary ordeal? Did he go psychotic because he was attempting to follow in twitchells shoes and he mentally duplicated twithells experience?"
ME: I don't believe that Twitchell
ever needed to jump off a bridge
and do a strip tease at an airport
and choose jail or a mental institution
in order to "find God." Besides, Twit
was a liar up to the moment of his
untimely death and, thus, was not
a "spiritual being." It was all about
him. Besides, many people have
done stupid things when confused
with life and have sought "spiritual
solutions." If one chose to, one could
claim that their mental missteps
and episodes were "spiritual
experiences" as Klemp has done.
Klemp is merely doing a 20/20
hindsight, and PR rewrite, to
excuse his mental confusion.
After all, HK's the leader of a
church and has to be above
and beyond reproach. It's a
pretend game where he has
to, partially, buy into the hype
in order to seem authentic.
"I did meet some eckist that I still remember with fondness and who appeared to be warm caring human beings. Some appeared to be well adjusted people. Also, I just read a posting by an eckist on this article that sounded remarkably insightful and loving. Maybe it is possible to grow in eckankar."
ME: I, too, know and remember some
H.I.s whom I like. They are nice people...
as long as they don't know who I am.
That could/would change I'm sure.
They would feel betrayed and insulted
and I could understand that, however,
that, too, would be a "spiritual" test!
To "grow in eckankar?" Sure, but it's
not due to Eckankar or because of
inner guidance by a fake mahanta.
That crap just gets in the way and
causes more codependency. Any
growth or realization leading to
an expanded awareness is learned
and earned by the individual. It's
their own personal and private
relationship to the Holy Spirit or
whatever one wants to call this
divine essence, or not, that leads
to a divine knowingness and to
"I had one eckist tell me that he didn't care where the teachings came from because they worked for him. I had conversations with several high initiates who were aware of the deception in eckankar and simply accepted it without any attempts to rationalize it. It appeared that the only truth that did exist for a lot of them was what ever seemed relevant at the time. One female told me, you take the parts you can use and toss the rest. I guess the idea was that with the teachings being so vast, it was up to a person to decide for themselves which ones to keep. Also, if twitchell made a habit of lying then truth wasn't anything concrete at all but something to be manipulated as needed. Well, that is what I got any from conversations. I think this concept corrodes the moral fiber of a person. Lies should not be knowingly condoned."
ME: Actually, accepting Eckankar
while knowing about the deceptions
and lies is rationalizing. It's like,
if it's not broke why fix it? Or,
why throw the baby out with the
(dirty) bath water? Nothing, and
nobody (Klemp), in the lower worlds
of KAL is perfect. Thus, if it (Eckankar)
works why complain? H.I.s have
put blinders on in order to stay
the course and maintain their
prestigious positions which took
them decades of time and money
to obtain. Many have rejected, in
part, HK's RESA structure and the
ESA Guidelines. Yes, I knew of H.I.s
that did the same... picked and
chose what they wanted to follow
and believe. However, that's not
the way Eckankar is supposed to
work. One is supposed to take
the bait and swallow it hook, line,
and sinker! Twit, supposedly, took
only the best from all of the other
religions and experts, etc. in order
to create (or bring forth) the EK
dogma to the modern Western
world. Thus, how can one pick
and chose when it's all, supposedly,
relevant? If a person is not consciously
following the guidance and the will
of the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp), then,
they are heretics!
"I just believe the good people just refused to see anything other than eckankar because they needed to belong to something they view as greater than anything else. They are under the eckankar spell. I still wouldn't want contact with them though. I just couldn't listen that eckankar dribble ever again and I would have to show how sorry I feel for them. It would serve no healthy purpose for me or them. So, I just remember the good and bless them in my heart."
ME: True! It's nice to belong.
Humans are social animals
and most like to follow in
one way or another because
it's easier to follow than to
lead. Being a follower requires
less thought and energy. It's
less demanding, less consuming,
and is less stressful. It is true
that the Higher one is with
initiations, years, and titles
the more lost that individual
is. They've bought into it
to the extreme. Look at Marge
Klemp! However, the ones
to really feel sorry for are those
ESC staffers who know it's all
a sham and Klemp is a poser,
but they have to put on an act
in order to keep their jobs,
health care, retirement, etc.
"Anyway, this article named a few people that I am not familiar with. I will look them up but any info any of you can share would be appreciated. Who is Dave Marman, Bill Schnoebelen and Robert Marsh? Are these really old names in eckankar history? Bill Schnoebelen was an eckist according to this article. The other two appear to be writers."
ME: Doug Marman is an old
friend of Klemp's who's an
apologist for Eckankar. I think
he's a 7th. He's got some books
out there that have overlooked
many facts and are based upon
lies and hearsay. What's funny,
however, is that Doug's stated
that Twitchell lied about traveling
to Paris, France to visit his sister
when it was, actually, Paris, Kentucky.
And, Marman's stated that Rebazar
was probably made up by Twitchell.
After all, PT needed to have
someone other than Kirpal Singh,
his real master, initiate him.
Thus, PT created RT in order to
initiate himself. Plus, Marman
has admitted that Twitchell
created the Mahanta title in
January 1969. Yet, Marman
omits all of this information
in his books!
"Telling my experience wasn't easy for me. Although I tend to be a private person, I felt a need to write it.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity Prometheus.
May you all be blessed with good things especially fruitful spiritual experiences."
ME: Thanks for sharing this.
It was interesting for me to
This is an entertaining approach.
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