6133Re: Where I Stand
- Feb 18, 2012While on the link, also search for the word "conspir" - that will bring up all the words containing it and the places where they appear.
What was that personal e-mail sent to Prometheus recently that got posted here? Didn't it presume something about a group of people, whatever, doing something.
I have to check if the word conspired was there.
OK. Just adding links and noting information for reference purposes.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
> Page search for the word amended here.
> If link doesn't work, try this one.
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
> > I was reading Minnesota's requirements for a nonprofit org since the rules for such are governed by state laws except for some federal regulations concerning tax exemptions.Â According to what I read, members of a nonprofit org have a right to vote on the board of directors.Â I don't recall eckankar ever giving card toting members a chance to make any decisions much less vote on who occupies the board of directors.Â I also read that the board members and other officials can change the by laws of the org as they see fit.Â
> > Â
> > I was reading about such things because I wondered if the state of Minnesota was especial beneficial as far as gaining and maintaining nonprofit status.Â I am thinking that they have a lot more casual view of nonprofit orgs than maybe most others.Â So maybe it is not just that it is familiar territory for Klemp.Â They may actually have an easier time maintianing their status there.
> > Â
> > Any comments about members being allowed to vote on the board members?Â Can you imagine eckankar letting members do that?Â I wonder if that would pertain to all members or just local members?Â I guess what I mean is if that would pertain to out of state and or out of country members.
> > --- On Fri, 2/17/12, etznab@ <etznab@> wrote:
> > From: etznab@ <etznab@>
> > Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Where I Stand
> > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
> > Â
> > "Plus, Gail's not going to tell him the truth anyway because she'd be
> > admitting to her participation
> > in the scam!"
> > According to the "contract of sale", I believe, Gail was released from
> > all liability for the writings of Paul Twitchell. Therefore it is
> > possible that Gail is not legally liable for any of it.
> > There was a copy of the contract of sale on the Internet once, but I
> > don't believe it's available any more. I do remember something about
> > this, though. As I read the document when it was public domain.
> > I do see your point about Gail not admitting much. However, I really,
> > really, really wish she would write a tell-all book some day. I think
> > she could make a fortune on something like this. Really I do! At the
> > same time, I also wonder about if any other "legal" agreements were
> > struck between Gail and others that are not available to the public. I
> > haven't seen any, but I do wonder if Gail ever agreed (in writing) NOT
> > TO do something like a tell-all book. Not now. Not ever.
> > Etznab
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
> > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
> > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 4:11 pm
> > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Where I Stand
> > Â
> > Hello All,
> > Interesting. Yes, Klemp,
> > Gross and Twitchell
> > have taught us about
> > the religious con. Many
> > Eckists are still learning
> > and will never understand
> > the lesson. The longer
> > one remains under the
> > influence the more stuck
> > they become. These long-
> > time EKists are generally
> > identified via impressive
> > titles and higher initiations.
> > Other than that these three
> > were not true teachers and
> > certainly weren't masters...
> > except at deceit.
> > I think that the best lie can
> > be told when the teller allows
> > himself to believe it as well.
> > Plus, of course, a little truth
> > mixed in also helps to make
> > it more believable.
> > Twitchell (and Gail) were the
> > two originators of the lie and
> > were more aware of the distortions
> > than the Twitchells' followers.
> > Next came Gross (and Gail
> > again). By being once removed
> > from the con it appears that
> > Darwin did, at first, believe
> > some of Twitchell's religious
> > myth. But, Gail, of course,
> > never believed any of Paul's
> > Mastership Stories. She did
> > like the attention, to a degree,
> > and the friendships she had
> > made. Mostly, she likes the
> > things that money could/can
> > buy.
> > Next came Klemp. He despised
> > Darwin because of the womanizing,
> > flashy egocentric appearance,
> > and DG's big spending habits.
> > However, HK was also envious
> > of Darwin's power and title/status.
> > Klemp learned how to "play-the-
> > game" in order to be released
> > early from a mental institution
> > in 1970 and flew under the radar
> > to have Darwin trust him and
> > need him (depend upon him)
> > to write EK publications.
> > Klemp showed Darwin what he
> > wanted to see... a meek and mild
> > admirer who was easily controlled.
> > This way Darwin could continue
> > to have fun and the admiration
> > of Eckists while Klemp would run
> > the business and write the books.
> > Since Klemp is more removed
> > from the original truth of Eckankar
> > being a scam and a vocation for
> > the Twitchells' I do think that he's
> > deluded enough to believe the
> > hype... to a certain point. Plus,
> > Gail's not going to tell him the
> > truth anyway because she'd be
> > admitting to her participation
> > in the scam! BTW- Did you know
> > that Harold's daughter, Marion,
> > has the middle name of Gail.
> > Klemp wants to believe the hype
> > because he's not only a narcissist,
> > and is vain, but he's also mentally
> > unstable.
> > He a big fan of the "as if" pretend
> > principle. When people write to him
> > and say they saw him in their dreams
> > yada, yada, yada, he actually believes
> > it.... to a degree. The problem is
> > that Klemp doesn't remember any
> > of it! He's unaware of what's going
> > on (on the "INNER") and that's why
> > he needs Eckists to "write" to him
> > via their snail-mail testimonials.
> > So, how does HK rationalize it?
> > Well, he's getting what he wants...
> > financial security, admiration,
> > and he's the boss!
> > Eckists get what they want
> > and need. Someone to look
> > up to, worship, dream of &
> > journal, believe in and trust!
> > And, they have EK Centers,
> > Worship Services, HU Sings,
> > Harji potlucks, their books,
> > CDs, DVDs, jewelry, a Temple,
> > seminars, invisible and
> > immortal ECK Masters and
> > those Higher Initiations!
> > Prometheus
> > Janice wrote:
> > Thank you Russ for such a good description of your experience. I too
> > enjoyed the sound part of eckankar teachings and I continued to use Hu
> > for a while after leaving until I found other words to use. There was
> > a lot of good stuff in eckankar teachings but for me it was spoiled by
> > the fact that Twitchell stole most of it from others. I would prefer
> > to read the originals. The way I see it is that eckankar can't stop
> > those who leave from using any of the techniques they learned as eckist
> > if it is beneficial. The effect eckankar has had on me is lasting. I
> > don't feel I could ever feel comfortable joining any kind of spiritual
> > or religious group again. I read all kinds of stuff and find bits and
> > pieces that are useful to me. I don't know if this is the best way or
> > not to seek enlightenment but it is the only way I can go at this
> > point. I do so enjoy reading the experiences that others have had in
> > eckankar and since leaving. It makes me feel less alone in my own
> > journey. It can feel lonely when you aren't able to share with others
> > what I consider the most crucial part of my life and development. The
> > one thing I can't forgive or forget about eckankar is the lies. To me
> > this is inexcusable. I hope through hearing from people like you I
> > will be able to put these things more in prospective one way or
> > another. I feel it would be better for me to let go of it all together
> > because in sorting out these things for myself, eckankar still has a
> > certain amount of my attention. I don't think about it continually but
> > wasting any time on eckankar to me some how seems like a waste. There
> > will always be people like Klemp, Twitchell and Gross who use other
> > people for self glorification. Part of me just can't seem to let go
> > because I see eckankar as highly destructive to impressionable people
> > who are looking for truth while eckankar will give them only lies.
> > Sometimes I feel pulled by what is right for me and the idea that since
> > I participated, maybe I have some responsibility toward others. These
> > can be such gray areas when one seeks to do what is right. I could
> > certainly use yours and the ideas of others about how you view these
> > things. Thanks
> > Russ wrote:
> > Good Day All!
> > Take what is good and leave the rest behind.
> > I naturally gravitated toward the part of Eckankar that had been
> > missing in my spiritual practice and that something was the sound
> > current.
> > What I did was put faith in the lem though in my heart I know/knew that
> > it was a crutch. I even stayed in for 33 years. I was afraid I would be
> > severed from the sound current if I left. Absurd really.
> > I came to my senses and I can say that the practice of chanting hu
> > (there are many other words that are effective too}established in me an
> > awareness of sound and light. So, I now have a certain beingness, a
> > part of me that knows about this connection to the Higher Self.
> > I also find myself wishing that PT had honored his real teachers and
> > simply wrote his books as his own opinion. I don't know or really care
> > about his motives. I believe that truth can be discovered anywhere but
> > only with a quality of sincerety. Every teacher is limited but
> > followers pull a teacher/leader into a position of authority. Not many
> > can resist the pull. We humans under the pull of illusion have to
> > believe that something is the greatest when in fact it might be new to
> > us but pretty ordinary otherwise. Experience is indeed the best
> > teacher.
> > So, yea I got a lot out of eckankar but guess what? I got more out of
> > leaving it and shaking off the dependency. I feel more empowered, real
> > and clear about my reality. So, the final test of a disiple(sp) is to
> > thank the teacher and move on. That's the honorable thing to do. imho.
> > And avoid the master-chela trap and counsel others when possible to
> > also avoid this trap. The power and love are within you.
> > What I do know is that what is REAL stands the test of time. Let the bs
> > faall awwaaaay.
> > Russ
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