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6103Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud

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  • prometheus_973
    Feb 5 2:46 PM
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      Hello Again Apollonius,
      I reread my comments
      to you and feel that I
      should apologize for
      some of what I said.

      My opinions of Eckankar
      and of the harm caused
      by Twitchell's and Klemp's
      fraud still stands.

      Yes, we all need to cut the
      ties to any and all religions.
      Religions are distortions
      of Truth that are designed
      around mass consumption.

      A group consciousness,
      and even that within a
      "circle of initiation," will
      always be lower or stunted
      than what the individual
      can/will achieve when free
      and unimpeded. Of course,
      all initiations, of any sort,
      are fraudulent!

      Consciousness is not handed
      out by a demigod and printed
      on an EK membership card.

      Prometheus



      prometheus_wrote:
      >
      > Hello Apollonius and All,
      > I'm not wrong. One cannot
      > find enlightenment via the
      > the false teachings of Eckankar.
      > It's called delusional, wishful,
      > and magical thinking.
      >
      > However, it's possible that
      > one might find enlightenment
      > despite Eckankar and by seeing
      > the truth about Eckankar and
      > that of all religions and group
      > manmade dogmas. Man created
      > God in man's image and man
      > created religion as well. Women
      > created mankind, but men still
      > won't give them credit! LOL!
      >
      > As for the Blue Light thingie.
      > That's something that many
      > people will see irregardless of
      > Eckankar. It's been proven and
      > written about and that's how
      > PT found it. He stole everything
      > and probably never had an
      > original thought worth anything.
      >
      > Remember, the liar Twitchell
      > didn't create the Mahanta or
      > the Blue Light of the Mahanta
      > until Jan. 1969. This has been
      > proven via past Wisdom Notes.
      >
      > Yes, I too knew Helen and
      > Millie (Workman) Moore.
      > Did you, too, go to HK's
      > Satsang class with Helen
      > across the desert of LV?
      >
      > Just because you had a
      > personal spiritual experience
      > and connect that to some
      > of PT's H.I.s, tricked by this
      > same charismatic conman,
      > doesn't mean you should
      > give Klemp a free pass. He's
      > done much more harm than
      > good by making Eckists
      > codependent upon him.
      >
      > The lies do matter!
      >
      > If you haven't figured that out
      > you're as deluded as the rest.
      >
      > That one experience you had,
      > long ago, was probably "caused"
      > by your belief in Eckankar and
      > influenced by other people and
      > the nature of the situation. All
      > of you were looking/seeking for
      > something, a sign, and a feeling
      > and it's what you and your mental
      > impressions created/deciphered
      > and found.
      >
      > I'm not saying that we don't
      > or can't have real spiritual
      > experiences. But, when we
      > do it certainly isn't because
      > of Eckankar, or Klemp. This
      > belief and person are not
      > spiritual conduits! Just the
      > opposite! Belief in Eckankar
      > and in "the Mahanta" will
      > only produce deluding Astral
      > experiences which appear
      > greater and "spiritual" in
      > the mind's eye!
      >
      > I, too, have experienced
      > sounds like running water,
      > thunder, buzzing bees,
      > violins and flutes with
      > blue, yellow, golden and
      > bright white lights and
      > more! So what! That's
      > merely the phenomenal
      > world! Much was experienced
      > prior to, some during,
      > and even greater things
      > after Eckankar!
      >
      > If you believe in the KAL,
      > then, deceivers and liars
      > who misrepresent truth
      > are of the KAL.
      >
      > Therefore, as you said, Twitchell
      > and Klemp with their distortions
      > and plagiarisms of Radhasoami
      > and Ruhani Satsang would be of
      > the KAL because they have taken
      > upon themselves to use the trickster
      > trappings and characteristics of KAL.
      >
      > But, all religions are of the KAL
      > or Satan. These religions that
      > Twitchell stole dogma from are
      > just as deceitful and off the mark
      > spiritually.
      >
      > What Eckankar is selling and
      > what you are receiving is not
      > Truth! If you don't understand
      > the ramifications of this, then,
      > you are as deluded and lost as
      > they are. Enjoy your peyote!
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      > BTW- RUMI worshipped Muhammad.
      > This was who he prayed to and
      > wrote poems to. Thus, he couldn't
      > have been all that enlightened. Mo
      > wasn't a very nice guy. And, even
      > Twitchell said Rumi was merely a
      > "follower" of ECK. Of course, the
      > physical plane is of the "ECK" too
      > correct?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > apollonius wrote:
      > Greetings Prometheus and all,
      >
      > I have read with great interest your postings over the years. I must however
      > disagree with your hypothesis that Spiritual Freedom can never be reached in
      > Eckankar. In 1973 when I joined Eckankar it was accepted that the LEM was GOD.
      > However that year, Helen Frye, Pat Henderson and Charlie Wallace (later Millie
      > Moore and Helen Baird) took me under their wings and mentored me to a better
      > realization. It was, they said, "The Sound current that was the MOST important
      > part of the students growth, not a Master or even a LEM". It was when sleeping
      > by Oak creek in Helen's front yard that I first heard the single note of the
      > flute above the flowing waters of Oak Creek, Sedona. A most
      > magical/Mystical/Real occurrence I can assure you.
      >
      > The ECK/Battica/Spirit had appeared to me earlier in life while touring as a
      > professional performer in the 1960's. Each night on stage I looked out to the
      > thousands in attendance and saw a blue haze/light surrounding all. I did not
      > know what this was until much later, but I knew at the time that this light gave
      > me comfort.
      >
      > Because of this one realization I will never criticize Paul/Harold/Eckankar for
      > making up names and using other paths' verbiage. It just doesn't matter once you
      > have/hear the true sound current as I did those many years ago sleeping in
      > Helen's front yard. IT set me free for all my 33 years in Eckankar and beyond to
      > this day.
      >
      > Everything depends on the individual creating their own universe. "Unfold your
      > own Myth" as Rumi said. The teachings do give you the tools but can't actually
      > do it for you despite any claims to the contrary. It is absolutely what YOU do
      > with the tools that makes for spiritual advancement, not any initiations or
      > recognition from the physical org called Eckankar. Spiritual
      > advancement/realization is not hindered by any physical org or person unless you
      > allow it. No one can be conned if they are sincere in the light and sound.
      >
      > Keep up the good work,
      >
      > From the Heart,
      >
      > Apollonius
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > It's interesting to see
      > > and hear what the religious
      > > tricksters and conmen
      > > come up with in order
      > > to rationalize their guilt
      > > away. They will claim to
      > > be providing a "service"
      > > for people... to comfort
      > > them and take away their
      > > fears.
      > >
      > >
      > > Klemp certainly gives Lip
      > > Service to this claim:
      > >
      > > How do the teachings
      > > of Eckankar help people?
      > >
      > > The most important
      > > concept we need to
      > > get across is the continuity
      > > of life and going from
      > > this world to the next
      > > and beyond. People worry
      > > most about meeting
      > > the end of this life. [end]
      > >
      > >
      > > Really? I disagree!
      > >
      > > Now, it could be that
      > > Klemp is concerned with
      > > death since he was born
      > > in 1942. He's getting closer
      > > and closer to the grave.
      > >
      > > And, I'm sure that many
      > > from the Baby Boomer
      > > generation (the generation
      > > Klemp dislikes most) are
      > > thinking more about their
      > > health and the end of life.
      > >
      > > But there are those living
      > > in politically unstable countries
      > > who have more immediate
      > > fears concerning day-to-
      > > day life and freedoms.
      > >
      > > What many people
      > > are concerned about,
      > > here and now, in this
      > > present time versus the
      > > future is having enough
      > > money to pay the bills in
      > > order to continue and
      > > maintain a healthy life
      > > style. And, not being
      > > alone and, thus, dying
      > > alone is an important
      > > issue too.
      > >
      > > Let's face it. People
      > > need God more than
      > > God needs them, unless,
      > > you're Klemp... a false
      > > God called Mahanta!
      > >
      > > Klemp needs his flock
      > > of suckers. Even if HK
      > > stepped aside for the
      > > next conman to take
      > > over he'd still be writing
      > > his trashy books and
      > > be posing as a God of
      > > some sorts. Maybe he'd
      > > move to some private
      > > island and start rumors
      > > that he had been reborn
      > > as Rebazar had. Klemp
      > > wants to continue the
      > > myth to be remembered!
      > >
      > > Young people certainly
      > > aren't concerned about
      > > death... they're concerned
      > > about finding a spouse,
      > > and having a good job,
      > > a place to live, and money
      > > for more education and
      > > a car, and gas.... maybe
      > > a new computer or i-phone/
      > > droid.
      > >
      > > In truth, HK is trying
      > > to purge himself of
      > > his Guilt for not only
      > > having deficiencies
      > > as a God/Master but
      > > for his continued deceit.
      > >
      > > Consequently, he'll boost
      > > his ego and self-important
      > > image and, thus, feel
      > > good hand important
      > > that he's providing a
      > > "spiritual" service for
      > > the New Age segment
      > > of the population who
      > > are attracted to Eckankar's
      > > (Twitchell's) Western
      > > twist and edit of Radhasoami
      > > and Ruhani Satsang.
      > >
      > > But, it (religion) is all
      > > the same... just different
      > > dogma and jargon. Klemp's
      > > Eckankar is no exception!
      > >
      > > HK has millions squirreled
      > > away in an off-shore
      > > account so money and
      > > financial security is not
      > > a problem for him. Time
      > > is Klemp's big enemy
      > > and fear. That's why he
      > > wants to be remembered
      > > as being a great spiritual
      > > master even though his
      > > followers are deluded.
      > >
      > > Don't Eckists "worship"
      > > Klemp, their Mahanta?
      > > Sure! That's Klemp's plan
      > > to trick them! But, he
      > > sees it as being for their
      > > own good... he's helping
      > > them to find peace and
      > > happiness without fear.
      > > Eckists should believe
      > > in themselves, as Soul,
      > > and not give-up Soul's
      > > authority to decide and
      > > know. Initiations are
      > > bogus anyway and are
      > > simply used to dangle
      > > in front of people....
      > > that's the real "plus
      > > element" in Eckankar.
      > > There's Service, Coin,
      > > Time, Promises of
      > > Protection and Guidance
      > > "plus" that next initiation!
      > >
      > > Look at the Spiritual
      > > Exercises of EK that
      > > are designed around
      > > this purpose. Eckists
      > > will dream of, contemplate
      > > upon, and beseech
      > > their God/Mahanta
      > > for all sorts of things.
      > >
      > > These S.E.s are designed
      > > for Eckists to see HK's
      > > physical image don't
      > > they? Thus, the Mahanta
      > > brainwashing is reenforced
      > > over and over on a daily
      > > basis.
      > >
      > > And, this is why it's so
      > > difficult to escape from
      > > codependency. There
      > > can never be real/truthful
      > > "Spiritual Freedom" for
      > > Eckists. They will always
      > > need Klemp... he's their
      > > crutch and their meth.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      >
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