Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

6044Re: I'm Surprised That Klemp (ECKankar) Isn't Suing Them!

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Jan 12, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Allen and All,
      Let's face it. This Sri
      Kahtifji is either a
      conman, like Twitchell,
      or is deluded. Maybe
      a combo of both!

      Allen, if you would take
      the time to look at the
      PT info, older post below,
      from his June, 1971 interviews
      you would see that Twit
      was a liar, poser, conman
      and a self-promoter.
      These quotes were taken
      from "Difficulties Of
      Becoming The Living
      ECK Master."

      [If you have "Difficulties"
      see pgs. 38-48, 70-71]

      1. Twitchell never travelled
      to India, especially, with his
      sister and, especially, from
      Paris, France, when he was
      15 years old (circa 1923).
      Kay-Dee was in school in
      Paris, Kentucky.

      This means that Twitchell
      never received his 2nd initiation
      (at this time or place) from
      either Sudar, or Kirpal Singh.
      It didn't happen!

      2. Therefore, any follow-up
      (2nd & 3rd) visits to India
      (1947 & 1951) to see Rebazar
      and to receive initiations 3-7
      and then 8-12 were also lies.
      Sudar was actually Kirpal Singh
      and he was Paul's real Master
      from 1955-1965, but Kirpal
      had a falling out with Paul due
      to exaggerations and pure
      fiction PT used in his Tiger's
      Fang manuscript. PT has Sudar
      (Kirpal) dying in 1937, but Kirpal
      actually outlived Paul by three
      years and died in 1974 at 80
      years old while Paul was 63.

      Rebazar (among other EK
      Masters like Fubbi) were/are
      imaginary characters created
      by Twitchell in order to establish
      an ancient "line of Mastership."
      Rebazar was created so that
      Twitchell could initiate himself
      as a 12th Plane "Master." Later,
      1969, Paul made himself a
      14th Plane Mahanta/Master.

      These ego-driven conmen always
      need to one-up the competition
      by giving themselves more and
      more phony initiation numbers
      and more glorified titles! Their
      deluded followers will believe
      anything they say. Look around,
      it's the same with all religions!

      3. Anyone believing Twitchell
      was a "Master" and was not a
      liar, or that Rebazar and Fubbi
      actually exist are either delusional,
      stupid, fearful, insane, weak
      minded, are conmen themselves,
      or are a combo of all the above!

      Prometheus
      BTW- Allen, I really doubt that
      you've done a research of info
      in "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      Living ECK Master?" Do you have
      this book in order to verify the
      info I've posted from pages 38-48
      and 70-71? Really, Paul was never
      in Paris, France at 15 years of age!

      Have you ever read "The Path of
      the Masters" or Ford Johnson's
      book "Confessions of a God-Seeker?"
      I you had read these (not a speed
      read like Twit would do), and kept
      an open mind while doing so, you
      would begin to see through all of
      Twitchell's bullshit and that of his
      Eckankar con.


      ********
      Just thought I'd bring
      this back to the front
      page for another look.

      This LSM character is
      saying that there's no
      empirical evidence showing
      that Paul wasn't what
      he claimed. That's not
      true! We have Paul's
      own words that prove
      he lied about and stole
      almost everything that
      became Eckankar. Would
      a spiritual "Master" lie
      or would a conman lie?

      What's the difference
      between the two?
      One is deluded while
      the other is dishonest!
      Both are vain and toot
      their own horns.

      It's also interesting that
      this Akshar Master is using
      ECK Master Fubbi Quantz
      as the (replacement) 972nd
      LSM while he's the 973rd
      replacement for Klemp!
      Too funny!

      p.s. What's also funny is
      that this LSM states that
      PT was in charge (as LEM
      or LSM?) from 65-72. Did
      he just round it off to 72?
      Or should it have been
      66-72?

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab,
      > I'll have to agree that
      > Sudar Singh was really
      > Kirpal Singh. Paul lied
      > about who Sudar was.
      >
      > BTW- Sudar Singh is
      > listed in Klemp's ECK
      > Lexicon as the LEM who
      > taught Twitchell, thus,
      > it seems that Kirpal
      > (Sudar) was actually
      > the 970th LEM since
      > Rebazar is fictitious.
      >
      > Also, in Twitchell's June
      > 1971 interviews printed
      > in:
      >
      > "Difficulties Of Becoming
      > The Living ECK Master."
      >
      > PT stated that he was 15
      > years old (pg. 48) when
      > he traveled from "Paris"
      > to India where PT states
      > he got his 2nd initiation
      > from Sudar Singh. All of
      > this distorted info comes
      > directly from Twitchell's
      > own mouth!
      >
      > Even the ECKankar spokes-
      > person, Doug Marman,
      > has stated that Twitchell
      > was lying and misdirected
      > people into thinking this
      > was Paris, France (where
      > PT went to visit his sister)
      > when it was actually Paris,
      > Kentucky! I, also, doubt
      > that Twit flew from Paris,
      > Kentucky to India! When
      > you catch a person in one
      > lie it makes you wonder
      > how many other lies there
      > were/are.
      >
      > Klemp states that PT was
      > born in 1908, but it really
      > doesn't matter because it
      > was between 1908-1910.
      >
      > Let's say PT was born
      > in 1908. This means
      > that when he was 15
      > (pg.48) and got his 2nd
      > initiation from Sudar
      > the year was 1923.
      >
      > Note: Klemp mentions
      > in the Paul Twitchell
      > (born 1908) info on
      > Eckankar.org that PT
      > was "Twisting Facts"
      > and "Exaggerating"
      > at age 27 (1935) to
      > get into "Who's Who
      > in Kentucky" and that
      > Twitchell had never
      > been all that far from
      > home. Paul's first wife
      > stated that he had
      > never been outside
      > of the U.S. until he
      > joined the Navy in 1942.
      >
      > PT claims that on the
      > next (2nd) trip to India
      > it was 1947. This was
      > when he met Rebazar
      > and received initiations
      > 3-7.
      >
      > BTW- It seems that Twitchell
      > was a 2nd initiate from
      > 1923-1947....{Sudar had
      > died in 1937 (pg. 45)}
      >
      > I wonder who PT's master
      > was from 1937-47 since
      > he says he didn't meet RT
      > until 1947?
      >
      > And, this means that Twitchell
      > was a 2nd initiate for 24
      > years... 1923-47!
      >
      > And, Rebazar was the fill-
      > in LEM since 1937.
      >
      > PT claims to have gone
      > from 3rd to 7th initiate
      > in six to seven months!
      >
      > On Twitchell's 3rd trip
      > to India (1951), to meet
      > Rebazar for the second
      > time, PT says he "got the
      > finish of my initiations."
      > I'm assuming this was
      > 8-12!
      >
      > Now, maybe I'm wrong
      > that Sudar Singh was the
      > 970th LEM.
      >
      > Maybe Sudar was the 969th
      > LEM and Rebazar (as fill-in)
      > was the 970th LEM since
      > he, supposedly, gave PT
      > the 12th and made him
      > the LEM.
      >
      > However, was Twitchell
      > the LEM in 1951? It sure
      > doesn't seem so according
      > to Twitchell's writings.
      > Or, did Twit get the 12th
      > but Not the LEM position?
      >
      > This would mean that Rebazar
      > was the LEM from 1937-65!
      > The truth is, it's all a lie!
      >
      > Plus, let's remember this
      > too. Twitchell is telling all
      > of this in a series of interviews
      > in June, 1971 (as the Mahanta).
      > And, this was just a few
      > months before his untimely
      > death. Lies and more lies up
      > to his death!
      >
      > Anyway, pages 38-48, 70-71
      > have all of the info one needs.
      > Just remember that Twitchell
      > was born in 1908 (close enough),
      > and that in June, 1966 Kirpal
      > Singh (Paul's real Master)
      > returned PT's "The Tiger's Fang"
      > manuscript to him. Plus, it
      > was January, 1969 that the
      > word "Mahanta" was first used
      > in print by Twitchell.
      >
      > Think about this. If PT was in
      > training by Rebazar over all
      > these years, as he claimed, and
      > received 12 initiations from him,
      > one would think that RT would
      > have told PT about the 14th
      > level/plane and that PT would
      > have used the term "Mahanta"
      > before 1969!
      >
      > Sure, anything can be debated,
      > but credibility goes a long way
      > in deciding if the person telling
      > you all this stuff can be trusted.
      > Twitchell was a known and proven
      > plagiarist and a liar as pointed
      > out by former RESA Ford Johnson,
      > by Doug Marman, and even by
      > Harold Klemp!
      >
      > Regardless of proven facts,
      > common sense, logic, and
      > past behavior, some people
      > will still believe this crap.
      > They need to believe in
      > something/anything bigger
      > and greater than themselves.
      > They allow their minds and
      > imaginations to be programmed
      > to expect and dream of
      > scenarios that are "spiritual."
      >
      > Prometheus

      "allen4447" wrote:
      >
      > Hello Everyone,
      >
      > If you look at Paul Twitchell's "Spiritual Notebook" 1981 edition which I believe is identical to older copies on page 106 you will see a 12th plain chart that is almost identical to the AKATHA chart that's at:
      >

      > http://www.akatha.com/akatha-god-worlds-chart-showing-lower-and-higher-plains.html
      >

      > A look through the old Eckankar dictionary from 1973 shows I believe that all AKATHA terms except AKATHA are listed. see:
      >
      http://www.akatha.com/akatha-glossary.html
      >

      > All that this proves is that AKATHA and Paul's old time Eckankar (pre 1972) are as Prometheus stated almost identical. I believe that Sri Kahtifji would probably agree, stating he holds the Rod of SRAOSHA power which is really the same as the rod of Eck power that Paul Twichell held till 1971. I believe Sri Kahtifji has also stated somewhere (not sure where) that AKATHA is really Old time Eckankar (pre 1971) So AKATHA being similar to old time Eckankar this is not something AKATHA is trying to hid from anyone.

      > So all we are left with is who believes what?

      > This is the problem with debating anything of a spiritual nature whether its AKATHA, Eckankar, Christianity, Buddhism, etc.
      >
      > I am no fan of the "New Eckankar" that Klemp created.

      > I am a former Eck chela for 29 years I'm glad I got out! I do not recommend the "New Klemp Eckankar"

      > But I have to say in all honesty from my viewpoint Paul Twichell was a Spiritual Giant.

      > And so is Sri Kahtifji. I know most of you will probably disagree but this is the nature of Spiritual Debating. Or Discussion : ) How can anyone ever win an augment about Spirituality?

      > All you can do is find a path that makes seems to you and feels right to you and give it a try and see where it leads you. Some chose to follow "Science" what ever that means. Others AKATHA. Others Eckankar or Christian Mysticism or what ever. I frankly can't blame some of you for being so annoyed with the new Eckankar as I agree there is a lot of nonsense going on.

      > But some of us are God seekers who truly desire to find God. And so it goes we go down all kinds of avenues trying to find answers to questions that seem almost impossible to answer!

      > AKATHA has done more for me over the last 3 months then Eckankar did over the last 29 years.

      > But its an individual thing and we all need to find our own path what ever the word Path means to us individually.
      >
      > Allen
      >
      >
      prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > Just Google: Living SRAOSHA
      > > Master and the site comes up.
      > >
      > > This guy copied Paul's God
      > > World Chart, which was copied
      > > and plagiarized info, and then
      > > tweaked it by adding a couple
      > > of Higher Planes that Twit, Darwin,
      > > and Klemp had overlooked.
      > >
      > > After all, Why should Sugmad
      > > reside on the 10th Plane (ANAMI
      > > LOK) and not a higher one when
      > > the LEM is of the 12th Plane and
      > > the Mahanta of the 14th Plane!
      > >
      > > The Living Sraosha Master (LSM),
      > > [BTW-SRAOSHA means ECK, see
      > > pg. 200 of the 1998 EK Lexicon
      > > and page 51 of The Path of the
      > > Masters] is just another conman.
      > >
      > > Anyway, what's funny is that
      > > anyone can simply insert their
      > > own name in place of this guy's
      > > and who's to disprove his "inner"
      > > experiences and the story he's
      > > spinning? It like with Twitchell's
      > > bullshit which Darwin and Klemp
      > > inherited by playing-the-game.
      > >
      > > So, Twitchell's and Klemp's "God
      > > Worlds Chart" i.e. "Worlds of ECK"
      > > goes to the 10th Plane. This below
      > > chart goes to the 12th Plane. The
      > > 12th Plane is the AKSHAR and the
      > > 11th is a derivative of this... I forget
      > > exactly what it was. In any case
      > > AKSHAR means SUGMAD and it
      > > can be found in "Path" on pages
      > > 264, 284, and 305.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > **********************
      > > AKATHA God Worlds Chart - Lower and Higher Planes
      > > A message from Sri Kahtifji, the Mahaji, the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master regarding the God Worlds Chart
      > >
      > > "The AKATHA God Worlds chart is very important insofar as the chela (student of AKATHA) needs to see it in order to know how to negotiate through the God Worlds. It is especially important to manoeuvre through the lower worlds getting to the Soul Plane as quickly as possible. Still that paradox exists regarding the essence of man as Soul wherein each one is the Sound and Light of SRAOSHA and therefore, dwells really upon the Soul Plane. The problem is that those outside AKATHA do not know it. We are fortunate to have this God knowlege, the Para-Vidya, in AKATHA. Still Soul needs to see the God Worlds superstructure for the true matrix of the universe. This mapping is very old, older than time itself. Hence, we again are fortunate that Paulji (Paul Twitchell) was the pioneer for this mapping in the recent past. Otherwise, we would not know were to go on the inner. The chela should really appreciate that we know were to go spiritually in AKATHA."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > You can view the AKATHA GOD WORLDS CHART by clicking on the PDF link below or viewing in Scribd.
      > >
      > > the_god_worlds_of_akatha_31.pdf
      > > Download File
      > >
      >
    • Show all 8 messages in this topic