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6032Re: About Rebazar Tarzs

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  • prometheus_973
    Jan 10, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Etznab,
      I'll have to agree that
      Sudar Singh was really
      Kirpal Singh. Paul lied
      about who Sudar was.

      BTW- Sudar Singh is
      listed in Klemp's ECK
      Lexicon as the LEM who
      taught Twitchell, thus,
      it seems that Kirpal
      (Sudar) was actually
      the 970th LEM since
      Rebazar is fictitious.

      Also, in Twitchell's June
      1971 interviews printed
      in:

      "Difficulties Of Becoming
      The Living ECK Master."

      PT stated that he was 15
      years old (pg. 48) when
      he traveled from "Paris"
      to India where PT states
      he got his 2nd initiation
      from Sudar Singh. All of
      this distorted info comes
      directly from Twitchell's
      own mouth!

      Even the ECKankar spokes-
      person, Doug Marman,
      has stated that Twitchell
      was lying and misdirected
      people into thinking this
      was Paris, France (where
      PT went to visit his sister)
      when it was actually Paris,
      Kentucky! I, also, doubt
      that Twit flew from Paris,
      Kentucky to India! When
      you catch a person in one
      lie it makes you wonder
      how many other lies there
      were/are.

      Klemp states that PT was
      born in 1908, but it really
      doesn't matter because it
      was between 1908-1910.

      Let's say PT was born
      in 1908. This means
      that when he was 15
      (pg.48) and got his 2nd
      initiation from Sudar
      the year was 1923.

      Note: Klemp mentions
      in the Paul Twitchell
      (born 1908) info on
      Eckankar.org that PT
      was "Twisting Facts"
      and "Exaggerating"
      at age 27 (1935) to
      get into "Who's Who
      in Kentucky" and that
      Twitchell had never
      been all that far from
      home. Paul's first wife
      stated that he had
      never been outside
      of the U.S. until he
      joined the Navy in 1942.

      PT claims that on the
      next (2nd) trip to India
      it was 1947. This was
      when he met Rebazar
      and received initiations
      3-7.

      BTW- It seems that Twitchell
      was a 2nd initiate from
      1923-1947....{Sudar had
      died in 1937 (pg. 45)}

      I wonder who PT's master
      was from 1937-47 since
      he says he didn't meet RT
      until 1947?

      And, this means that Twitchell
      was a 2nd initiate for 24
      years... 1923-47!

      And, Rebazar was the fill-
      in LEM since 1937.

      PT claims to have gone
      from 3rd to 7th initiate
      in six to seven months!

      On Twitchell's 3rd trip
      to India (1951), to meet
      Rebazar for the second
      time, PT says he "got the
      finish of my initiations."
      I'm assuming this was
      8-12!

      Now, maybe I'm wrong
      that Sudar Singh was the
      970th LEM.

      Maybe Sudar was the 969th
      LEM and Rebazar (as fill-in)
      was the 970th LEM since
      he, supposedly, gave PT
      the 12th and made him
      the LEM.

      However, was Twitchell
      the LEM in 1951? It sure
      doesn't seem so according
      to Twitchell's writings.
      Or, did Twit get the 12th
      but Not the LEM position?

      This would mean that Rebazar
      was the LEM from 1937-65!
      The truth is, it's all a lie!

      Plus, let's remember this
      too. Twitchell is telling all
      of this in a series of interviews
      in June, 1971 (as the Mahanta).
      And, this was just a few
      months before his untimely
      death. Lies and more lies up
      to his death!

      Anyway, pages 38-48, 70-71
      have all of the info one needs.
      Just remember that Twitchell
      was born in 1908 (close enough),
      and that in June, 1966 Kirpal
      Singh (Paul's real Master)
      returned PT's "The Tiger's Fang"
      manuscript to him. Plus, it
      was January, 1969 that the
      word "Mahanta" was first used
      in print by Twitchell.

      Think about this. If PT was in
      training by Rebazar over all
      these years, as he claimed, and
      received 12 initiations from him,
      one would think that RT would
      have told PT about the 14th
      level/plane and that PT would
      have used the term "Mahanta"
      before 1969!

      Sure, anything can be debated,
      but credibility goes a long way
      in deciding if the person telling
      you all this stuff can be trusted.
      Twitchell was a known and proven
      plagiarist and a liar as pointed
      out by former RESA Ford Johnson,
      by Doug Marman, and even by
      Harold Klemp!

      Regardless of proven facts,
      common sense, logic, and
      past behavior, some people
      will still believe this crap.
      They need to believe in
      something/anything bigger
      and greater than themselves.
      They allow their minds and
      imaginations to be programmed
      to expect and dream of
      scenarios that are "spiritual."

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:
      >
      > The following two quotes are from Introduction to Eckankar, 1966 by Paul
      Twitchell
      >
      > "My sole purpose was to find the elusive Tibetan Lama, known as Rebazar Tarzs,
      of whom I had heard much of from the late Sudar Singh at Allahabad. [....] - p.
      27
      >
      > "Sudar Singh often spoke of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan saint, whom he said was
      reputed to be over five hundred years old, and was at the time, living in the
      foothills between Darjeeling and Gangtock somewhere ... ." - p. 28
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Apparently, according to the stories told by Paul Twitchell early on, he heard
      about Rebazar Tarzs from Sudar Singh; later on he would write (in so many words)
      that Sudar Singh led him to Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > When the glossary for Eckankar, The Key to Secret Worlds appeared in print, it
      said about Rebazar Tarzs:
      >
      > "The great ECK master living in the Hindu Kush mountains, supposedly over five
      hundred years old. He is the emissary of ECKANKAR in the physical universe." -
      p. 249
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Apparently then, Rebazar Tarzs fits the characterization of someone living
      near the Himalayas and reported to be over 500 years old.
      >
      > Since Radhasoami & Ruhani Satsang don't (far as I know) tell stories about a
      character fitting that description, I doubt the person (Sudar Singh) that Paul
      referred to (in this instance) could be Kirpal Singh. It would be more logical,
      IMO, to look at Swami Premananda and Kriya Yoga stories where the number 500
      years and older does appear; and fits the description for a master said to be
      living in the same general neighborhood as (described by Paul for) Rebazar
      Tarzs.
      >
      > I'm simply trying to trace certain history of Rebazar Tarzs and where it might
      have originated. Truth is, there was another 500+ master in the foothills of the
      Himalayas.
      >
      > "In 1861, Lahiri was transferred to Ranikhet, in the foothills of the
      Himalayas. One day, while walking in the hills, he heard a voice calling to him.
      After climbing further, he met his Guru Mahavatar Babaji, who initiated him into
      the techniques of Kriya Yoga. Babaji told Lahiri that the rest of his life was
      to be given to spreading the Kriya message.[1]"
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahiri_Mahasaya
      >
      > "Swami Pranabananda Giri, another disciple of Lahiri Mahasaya, also met
      Mahavatar Babaji in the presence of Lahiri Mahasaya, at Lahiri's home.
      Pranabananda asked Mahavatar Babaji his age. Mahavatar Babaji responded that he
      was about 500 years old at that time.[4]"
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavatar_Babaji
      >
      > I've no doubt Paul Twitchell heard the stories about Babaji when he lived near
      the Self-Revelation compound in D.C. for nearly 5 years from 1950-1955. Eckankar
      stories have it that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951. Notice how it
      says "first met ... in 1951":
      >
      > "Paul first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the foothills of the Himalayas near
      Darjeeling. [....]" - Harold Klemp
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man2.html
      >
      > OK. So David Lane talked with Paul Twitchell's first wife who lived with him
      at the ashram. David writes:
      >
      > "Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor, states univocally that they
      never traveled together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere outside of the
      United States. Indeed, she says Paul and her were doing the 'Self-Revelation
      Church of Absolute Monism' at the time and helping to edit their publications.
      [....]"
      >
      > http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html
      >
      > Harold Klemp writes:
      >
      > "Paul became interested in occult teachings around 1950. About this time he
      hooked up with Swami Premananda, who headed the Self-Revelation Church of
      Absolute Monism in Washington, D.C. Paul and his wife lived in the ashram on
      church property for quite some time."
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html#trail
      >
      > According to David Lane:
      >
      > He [Paul Twitchell] replaced the names of his actual teachers, Swami
      Premananda and Kirpal Singh, with the names "Sudar Singh" and "Rebazar Tarzs."
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
      >
      > I'm not certain why David Lane wrote that. Perhaps he had some literal
      examples to back up the statement. What is interesting to me is that Paul
      Twitchell did "go from Premananda to Kirpal Singh". (Remember, according to
      Paul's story - the later version, at least - it was Sudar Singh who led him to
      Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > The whole thing gets really confusing because "Sudar Singh" also appears in
      place of Kirpal Singh.
      >
      > Chapter 1, March-April, 1966, Orion Magazine: "Each has had a place in my
      growth toward the spiritual goal; each are equally great in their work for
      mankind. However, I have felt a closer kinship and friendliness to Kirpal
      Singh, who has shown me a lot of the other work during my first year or so under
      him. Since we have parted he keeps an impartial view toward me and my research.
      Therefore, if I quote him in these pages it is because I feel that he is
      sympathetic and interested in my work."
      >
      > Chapter 1, The Flute of God, 1970: "Each has had a place in my growth toward
      the spiritual goal; each is equally great in his work for mankind. However, I
      have felt a closer kinship and friendliness to Sudar Singh, who showed me a
      lot of the other work, during my first year or so under him. Since we have
      parted he has retained an impartial view toward me and my research.
      > "If I quote him in these pages it is because I feel that he is
      sympathetic and interested in my work and led me to Rebazar Tarzs."
      >
      > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Five.htm
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm2.html
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
      >
      > Sudar Singh led Paul Twitchell to Rebazar Tarzs?
      >
      > Sudar Singh often spoke of Rebazar Tarzs?
      >
      > Paul Twitchell heard much of Rebazar Tarzs from Sudar Singh?
      >
      > [Then where is Sudar Singh mentioned in the book: Those Wonderful Eck Masters?
      Where is Sudar Singh depicted in the new pictorial timeline of Eckankar Masters
      displayed at public Eckankar events?]
      >
      > IMO, stories are what they are. Whether true or false is debatable.
      >People do this without putting
      much thought and investigation
      into it, after, they taken the bait.
      Now they're hooked!

      How many people believe in Big
      Foot and alien abductions? Lots!
      I don't! But, these are still topics
      to be debated and they are money
      makers for those promoting and
      selling this crap.

      Prometheus






      "etznab wrote:
      >
      > The following two quotes are from Introduction to Eckankar, 1966 by Paul
      Twitchell
      >
      > "My sole purpose was to find the elusive Tibetan Lama, known as Rebazar Tarzs,
      of whom I had heard much of from the late Sudar Singh at Allahabad. [....] - p.
      27
      >
      > "Sudar Singh often spoke of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan saint, whom he said was
      reputed to be over five hundred years old, and was at the time, living in the
      foothills between Darjeeling and Gangtock somewhere ... ." - p. 28
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Apparently, according to the stories told by Paul Twitchell early on, he heard
      about Rebazar Tarzs from Sudar Singh; later on he would write (in so many words)
      that Sudar Singh led him to Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > When the glossary for Eckankar, The Key to Secret Worlds appeared in print, it
      said about Rebazar Tarzs:
      >
      > "The great ECK master living in the Hindu Kush mountains, supposedly over five
      hundred years old. He is the emissary of ECKANKAR in the physical universe." -
      p. 249
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Apparently then, Rebazar Tarzs fits the characterization of someone living
      near the Himalayas and reported to be over 500 years old.
      >
      > Since Radhasoami & Ruhani Satsang don't (far as I know) tell stories about a
      character fitting that description, I doubt the person (Sudar Singh) that Paul
      referred to (in this instance) could be Kirpal Singh. It would be more logical,
      IMO, to look at Swami Premananda and Kriya Yoga stories where the number 500
      years and older does appear; and fits the description for a master said to be
      living in the same general neighborhood as (described by Paul for) Rebazar
      Tarzs.
      >
      > I'm simply trying to trace certain history of Rebazar Tarzs and where it might
      have originated. Truth is, there was another 500+ master in the foothills of the
      Himalayas.
      >
      > "In 1861, Lahiri was transferred to Ranikhet, in the foothills of the
      Himalayas. One day, while walking in the hills, he heard a voice calling to him.
      After climbing further, he met his Guru Mahavatar Babaji, who initiated him into
      the techniques of Kriya Yoga. Babaji told Lahiri that the rest of his life was
      to be given to spreading the Kriya message.[1]"
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahiri_Mahasaya
      >
      > "Swami Pranabananda Giri, another disciple of Lahiri Mahasaya, also met
      Mahavatar Babaji in the presence of Lahiri Mahasaya, at Lahiri's home.
      Pranabananda asked Mahavatar Babaji his age. Mahavatar Babaji responded that he
      was about 500 years old at that time.[4]"
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavatar_Babaji
      >
      > I've no doubt Paul Twitchell heard the stories about Babaji when he lived near
      the Self-Revelation compound in D.C. for nearly 5 years from 1950-1955. Eckankar
      stories have it that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951. Notice how it
      says "first met ... in 1951":
      >
      > "Paul first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the foothills of the Himalayas near
      Darjeeling. [....]" - Harold Klemp
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man2.html
      >
      > OK. So David Lane talked with Paul Twitchell's first wife who lived with him
      at the ashram. David writes:
      >
      > "Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor, states univocally that they
      never traveled together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere outside of the
      United States. Indeed, she says Paul and her were doing the 'Self-Revelation
      Church of Absolute Monism' at the time and helping to edit their publications.
      [....]"
      >
      > http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html
      >
      > Harold Klemp writes:
      >
      > "Paul became interested in occult teachings around 1950. About this time he
      hooked up with Swami Premananda, who headed the Self-Revelation Church of
      Absolute Monism in Washington, D.C. Paul and his wife lived in the ashram on
      church property for quite some time."
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html#trail
      >
      > According to David Lane:
      >
      > He [Paul Twitchell] replaced the names of his actual teachers, Swami
      Premananda and Kirpal Singh, with the names "Sudar Singh" and "Rebazar Tarzs."
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
      >
      > I'm not certain why David Lane wrote that. Perhaps he had some literal
      examples to back up the statement. What is interesting to me is that Paul
      Twitchell did "go from Premananda to Kirpal Singh". (Remember, according to
      Paul's story - the later version, at least - it was Sudar Singh who led him to
      Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > The whole thing gets really confusing because "Sudar Singh" also appears in
      place of Kirpal Singh.
      >
      > Chapter 1, March-April, 1966, Orion Magazine: "Each has had a place in my
      growth toward the spiritual goal; each are equally great in their work for
      mankind. However, I have felt a closer kinship and friendliness to Kirpal
      Singh, who has shown me a lot of the other work during my first year or so under
      him. Since we have parted he keeps an impartial view toward me and my research.
      Therefore, if I quote him in these pages it is because I feel that he is
      sympathetic and interested in my work."
      >
      > Chapter 1, The Flute of God, 1970: "Each has had a place in my growth toward
      the spiritual goal; each is equally great in his work for mankind. However, I
      have felt a closer kinship and friendliness to Sudar Singh, who showed me a
      lot of the other work, during my first year or so under him. Since we have
      parted he has retained an impartial view toward me and my research.
      > "If I quote him in these pages it is because I feel that he is
      sympathetic and interested in my work and led me to Rebazar Tarzs."
      >
      > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Five.htm
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm2.html
      >
      > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
      >
      > Sudar Singh led Paul Twitchell to Rebazar Tarzs?
      >
      > Sudar Singh often spoke of Rebazar Tarzs?
      >
      > Paul Twitchell heard much of Rebazar Tarzs from Sudar Singh?
      >
      > [Then where is Sudar Singh mentioned in the book: Those Wonderful Eck Masters?
      Where is Sudar Singh depicted in the new pictorial timeline of Eckankar Masters
      displayed at public Eckankar events?]
      >
      > IMO, stories are what they are. Whether true or false is debatable.
      >
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