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6011Re: Klemp's ECKankar Is Non-Pacifist... Why?

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  • prometheus_973
    Jan 6, 2012
      Hello All,
      Thanks for the post Non.
      I'll add my two cents worth
      below:

      "Non" wrote:
      Hi Prometheus,
      It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of consciousness, which
      are Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient are soo shallow. It would seem
      obvious that there is no need for violence and much room for Compassion.
      Self-defense would be a mute point. After all, if you are capable of changing
      the weather and so on then why not make it a nice happy day. But NOOOOOO, ekists
      claim that they must follow a path of noninterference and indifference. I do not
      claim any highest state of consciousness, but in my time on earth, I have
      learned, at least IMHO, that a path of destruction, arrogance, indifference
      without any sense of empathy is just plain wrong and at the very least
      unproductive. They may not necessarily be destructive overtly, but there is a
      sense of passive/aggressiveness and fake smiles.



      ME: ECKists are conflicted
      with their religious bullshit
      (dogma). It's obvious that
      people "feel" when they love
      whether it's people or pets.
      However, Eckists are instructed,
      early on, that "feelings" are
      wrong and negative and of
      the 2nd Astral Plane. But,
      "unconditional" love is, somehow,
      seen as being the highest
      form of love. Thus, non-judgmental
      love, i.e. unconditional love,
      is highly sought and is therefore
      portrayed and emulated.
      Unfortunately, ECKists don't
      see the fallacy of separating
      love and feelings and attempting
      to turn ECKists into unfeeling
      sociopathic "yes" men/women.



      NON-ECKSTER:
      Lets take one example, that of the use of religion to justify slavery. Many did
      so, causing great suffering to others and even when the slaves in the U.S. were
      freed, they were made to suffer for decades. Why aren't there any stories in ek
      lore about some ek master doing something to end the suffering of humankind or
      even animals. (Perhaps there is something I recall, about eck masters just
      hanging out observing and may step in at the last second to save the earth from
      utter destruction or some such nonsense.)


      ME: Right! Klemp has EK
      stories about this or that
      ECK Master (or the ECK)
      doing something, but it's
      all pretty much imagined,
      embellished, or distorted.
      And, the stories of these
      meetings and intercessions
      are never as good as the
      stories coming from Christians.
      I knew some EKists who
      had their embellished stories
      mentioned, on stage, by
      HK and three were printed
      in HK's Mahanta transcripts.
      I knew some of these ECkists
      well enough to know when
      they were lying. They had
      huge egos and always needed
      to be the center of attention.
      It was funny to listen to and
      see them believe that they
      were a part of the Mahanta's
      (versus the LEM's) inner
      circle. They had no respect
      for HK's RESAs or for other
      high ranking people at the
      ESC. These higher ups were
      seen more as experienced
      "administrators" and not as
      advanced, as the hanger-ons
      were, "spiritually."



      NON-ECKSTER:
      eckankar is all about power and arrogance. eckankar does not do any charitable
      work that I know of nor was it a high priority when I was a member. The highest
      priority was worship of the LEM, simply escaping the earth "ash can" to some
      other ethereal plane of existence. What then is their real understanding of
      LOVE. It is merely a concept devoid of any real feeling of the true sense of the
      word and expression. Theirs is a religion based on FEAR of AUTHORITY. It is also
      very escapist rather than engaging in making the world a better place. It's like
      a mutual admiration society studying their dogma theocracy of fraudulent facts
      and Narcissisticaly looking at themselves in there make believe dreams.



      ME: Charity begins at home...
      is probably the motto Klemp
      would use to justify his position.
      There's always an underlying
      reason for anything Eckankar
      does and it's connected to
      gaining members and making
      money via membership fees,
      donations, and merchandise
      sales.

      Actually it seems like "Mahanta"
      worship is stressed more than
      LEM worship. This is, of course,
      a Black Magician slight-of-hand
      trick, or shell game, since Klemp
      is both the LEM and the Mahanta.
      Yes, Klemp is very adamant about
      Not worshipping or praying to
      him as the Living ECK Master (LEM).
      But, it's expected and encouraged,
      to pray to and worship the Mahanta!
      Yes, ECKists are instructed to dream
      of his image and to contemplate
      upon (pray) to the Mahanta (Klemp)
      for intercession and protection.
      EK Spiritual Exercises were designed
      to focus upon Klemp's picture
      (sold at ECK Centers, or by phone,
      or online at the ESC. All major
      credit cards are accepted... I'm told).

      NON-ECKSTER:
      What good did any eck master (fictional anyway) ever really do. Klemp will never
      get a Nobel Peace Prize, that's for sure.


      ME: It makes for a good story
      that's hard to disprove. People
      have seen and talked to the
      ECK Masters! Can you prove
      that they don't exist? What's
      interesting is that there's more
      evidence that Santa Claus and
      the Easter Bunny exist. Or, that
      Superman exists or that Jesus
      still exists... or existed.

      There's no record beyond
      Twitchell's works, or before
      Twitchell, naming any of the
      ECK Masters. Except, of course,
      for those Twitchell stole from
      history and other religions.
      When people want and need
      to believe and are encouraged
      to dream and to use their
      imaginations to meet with
      entities on other "planes,"
      then, of course they will "see"
      and "talk" to these guys.

      Basically, ECKists Fear Responsibility
      and their own Mastership.
      That's why they need to
      become and remain codependent
      upon Klemp.

      They won't admit to it, but
      he's got the promises via
      higher initiations, and that
      makes him the EK Messiah...
      who's not to be worshipped.
      Tell that to all of those giddy,
      cheering, enamored ECkies
      hanging onto every silly word
      when HK comes out of his
      cave and onto the stage. I've
      seen it for myself and he is
      worshipped!

      Still, it's a schizophrenic game
      that is being played, but that's
      the goal... to confuse and distract!

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      Hello All,
      I was wondering as to
      why a religion that claims
      to be of the "Highest
      Consciousness" anywhere,
      and for all time, and to
      be the "most direct path
      to God" doesn't practice
      pacifism/peaceful action.

      The argument could be
      that there would be no
      one left to practice their
      belief if they turned the
      other cheek and didn't
      defend themselves by
      killing their enemies
      or those of their country.

      However, the eradication
      of one's enemies isn't an
      option for pacifist religions.
      Everyday life is, of course,
      seen as a test of faith, but
      they take it a step further
      and to the next level.

      Why does ECKankar have
      the same views as other Non-
      Pacifist (violence condoning)
      religions?

      And, what's really interesting
      is that these Pacifist religions,
      EACH, have more members,
      worldwide, and are more widely
      known via historical records
      than ECKankar! The Pacifists
      have a real religious history!
      "ECK" does not!

      So, one has to wonder why
      Klemp (the 14th Plane Mahanta)
      states that it's okay for ECKists
      to be members of the military.
      Is it because he was in the
      U.S. Air Force during the
      Vietnam War and that he
      enjoyed his military experience?

      And, let's not forget that
      the founder of ECKankar,
      Twitchell, was in the U.S.
      Navy during WWII and he,
      also, enjoyed the experience!
      He made it seem that he
      was a real hero!

      Here's a site that lists the
      various Pacifist religions:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pacifist_faiths#Religion

      Interesting, too, that this
      topic of pacifism is yet another
      unexplored/discussed aspect
      of the ECK Teachings that is
      quickly slid in under the rug
      and is accepted by longtime
      members (H.I.s) without question.
      And, these Higher 6th & 7th
      Initiates, supposedly, have
      a "Spiritual Consciousness"
      beyond that of the *4th Plane
      God (KAL, i.e. the Devil, Satan)
      the Pacifists worship! Amazing!

      Prometheus
      *Autobiography of a Modern
      Prophet, page 385, by Harold
      Klemp
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