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5963Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Karma and Consciousness

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Dec 6, 2011
      A long time ago I remember people were encouraged to speak to others in
      "their own language" & NOT to use a whole bunch of Eckankar terms.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:54 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Karma and Consciousness

      Hello Diana and All,
      Thanks for sharing your
      thoughts and for getting
      me to rethink some positions.

      IMO-It's really hard to
      say what is what, especially,
      after the Eckankar experience
      and the uncovering of
      more and more religious
      lies. It's difficult to express
      one's beliefs without using
      some/much of that what
      we have learned during
      the years of our religious
      including the pre-Eckankar

      Plus, sometimes semantics
      tend to get in the way
      by confusing the issue.

      It is good, however, when
      we are able to use our own
      words and our own unique
      consciousness to express
      ourselves. Eckankar didn't
      allow this, therefore, every
      Vahana (missionary) needed
      to be trained to talk and
      respond in an "approved"
      manner and sound like an
      EK brochure. Even ECK
      Clerics need to have RESA/
      ESC "approved" topics for
      ECK Worship Services (EWS).
      It seems that there is little
      trust that H.I.s (who are
      supposedly higher in
      consciousness to the 4th
      Plane "God" other religions
      worship) actually have the
      inner communication with
      their "Mahanta," or a higher
      awareness to know how
      or which topic to present
      at an EWS. Eckankar has
      too many outer controls
      (Guidelines) for a rational
      person to buy into the
      premise that there is valid
      "inner" and "higher" plane
      communication between
      Klemp and his H.I.s.

      EK Higher Initiations,
      supposedly, represent
      a Higher Consciousness
      and greater "Inner"
      awareness with the Will
      of the Mahanta/Klemp?
      So, why does Klemp have
      all of the controls on
      speech via the guidelines
      if this was true? Why have
      "outer" physical plane
      seminars for H.I.s?

      Most ECKists don't know
      about the extent of the
      EK "Guidelines" but these
      even show How the ECK
      Centers are to be decorated
      and which books are to
      be displayed, and how,
      and which ones are no
      longer in vogue. I'm not
      clear on this... do Eckists
      believe they have "spiritual
      freedom," now, or will they
      have it later (in the next life)
      after achieving a "Master's"

      An EK leader needs to give
      the impression that they are
      "plugged-in" to the will of
      the Mahanta (the "God" they
      pray to, contemplate upon,
      dream of, and beseech with
      requests... parking spaces
      included... really!).

      Yes, I agree that consciousness
      is always in flux, as is matter.

      I guess that consciousness will
      incarnate, but does that mean
      that people (or Souls) do as well?
      I'm not so sure about that or
      how and why that works. Maybe
      it's truer that it's consciousness
      that incarnates while people
      merely live and die but are the
      vehicles of/for consciousness.

      Is "Soul" a part of this consciousness
      or is this just a religious term
      used to explain away or place
      a spin on cosmology and to
      alleviate our fear of death?

      So, what is this consciousness
      and does it have many degrees,
      shapes, meanings, and take
      many forms? I guess we could
      use many terms and words
      to call or rename it (IT?) as we
      please and this is how religions
      are built. Of course with religion
      one group of people always
      has the inside truth over all
      others and has the might to
      be more right and to influence
      and intimidate other groups
      of believers. That's what dogma,
      jargon, and hierarchies are
      all about.

      Perhaps "personality" is this
      consciousness when it takes
      or enters an intelligent form?
      I wonder how much intelligence
      is required for consciousness
      to instill a personality?

      Of course we have the term
      Group Consciousness too.
      Maybe this is more a Group
      Personality than it is consciousness
      or maybe it's just a lower form
      of consciousness?

      IMO Group Consciousness
      (mostly religions and political
      parties) are always at a lower
      level than individuals within
      the group. This is why Eckankar
      only works for those whose
      consciousness has become


      Diana Stanley wrote:
      I don't believe in Karma.

      I believe counciousness
      is always taking form.

      When a form is no longer
      able to function or die
      counciousness simply
      returns to itself. The
      aspect of it takes on a
      new form.

      So in away counciousness
      continues to incarnate but
      what we know as the personality
      is for the present life.

      prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Diana and All,
      > Way back before Twitchell
      > became a religious scammer
      > he shared some opinions
      > that, I believe, were insightful.
      > It was when he talked about
      > being the Cliff Hanger and
      > about being your own religion.
      > IMO-This is the true "spiritual"
      > path.
      > Everything is individualized
      > but has a group appeal, like
      > with religion, including one's
      > taste buds! Sometimes it's
      > based upon culture. Even those
      > who get along as best friends
      > don't like the same foods. And,
      > one might like coffee while the
      > other prefers tea. It gets more
      > detailed and individualized even
      > for fellow coffee and tea drinkers.
      > One person might prefer red
      > wine to white or beer to wine
      > or doesn't drink alcohol at all
      > or might make exceptions for
      > special occasions. These choices,
      > too, can become complex. Yet,
      > these same Twin Souls or Soul
      > Mates will share a similar philosophy
      > of life... or so it appears on
      > the surface. After all, religions
      > are based upon the ruling
      > group's opinions. And, unseen/
      > unknown and invisible masters
      > (saints and angels too) prophetic
      > opinions are always the same
      > as the ruling hierarchy... why
      > is that?
      > I believe that we all travel
      > a unique path which is
      > comprised of fate and
      > choice driven cycles. But
      > alterations to this path/
      > journey, created by choices,
      > will influence future choices
      > and even fate. The journey
      > can change.
      > I'm not so sure that karma
      > is a truism. It helps to explain
      > away a lot of bad things and
      > gives people hope. Plus, bad
      > people will be punished in
      > the next lifetime. Or, are they,
      > now, being punished in this
      > lifetime?
      > Therefore, why help a person
      > who, obviously, made bad choices
      > in a previous lifetime? Or, if
      > you think you have some
      > unresolved karma with someone
      > why not go for it, now, instead
      > of remaining true to one's
      > mate since that "karma" has,
      > obviously, been resolved?
      > This is how many ECKists
      > tend to rationalize and why
      > they will jump from relationship
      > to relationship!
      > All in all, it seems that
      > most people make choices
      > according to what they
      > think they really believe
      > or what they think they
      > should, need, and want
      > to believe. One can go
      > through the motions
      > and fake it for others
      > and even for oneself,
      > to a certain extent, for
      > years and years.
      > However, most people
      > don't want to admit that
      > their opinions are influenced
      > more by others, some they
      > don't even know or would
      > have much in common with,
      > than they think. Not many
      > can block out the effects of
      > advertising and subliminal
      > messages because people
      > want to belong to or identify
      > with some group. It's even
      > worse when people decide
      > to consciously brainwash
      > themselves into believing
      > what makes them feel good
      > about life whether it's true
      > or not. This is why religion
      > works so well. If ECKists had
      > half a brain and really thought
      > it through the claims that
      > are made don't make sense.
      > Prometheus
      Diana Stanley wrote:
      > I have decided there
      > is no spiritual path.
      > If you are sitting in
      > your living room you
      > don't need a path to
      > find it! I feel it is a
      > matter of becoming
      > aware of who or what
      > you are.
      > Diana
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