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5962Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?

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  • Austin Atma
    Dec 6, 2011
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      Sharon,  Nicely put.  Yes, I understand, and I think you and Pro make good points about speaking the lingo of the locals when you are in local land, as long as it doesn't become locospeak in locoville ;-).  

      I was in the cult for 30+ years and never really fully behaved myself.  I get the feeling very few of us did.

      The "danger" is how much of that stuff we internalize and how it can become invisible to us.  I've worked with other anti-cult organizations and in many ways wreckankar is more difficult for people to extract and scrape off their shoes because in many ways it is subtle.  Not always but in comparison to the ones where people lock you in rooms or make you marry people ;-). 

      The carrot of initiatory "salvation" is a key hook that cults use, It's no wonder there are energies that swirl around our recollections and experiences of the hierarchy of initiations,  I tend to think it is best to understand their manipulative nature and let the stickiness of the manipulation wash away in a way that agrees with your own consciousness.  


      From: Sharon <brighttigress@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 2:44 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?

      Hi Austin & Prometheus,

      Maybe it's just me, but reading the daily digest of this thread, it seems to me that there's some misunderstanding of what the other's saying.

      Austin - I think what you're saying perhaps refers to Prometheus frequently posting about initiations & the "glass ceiling", and not exactly the language he uses. "Eckspeak" is a handy term, plus any word using the prefix "eck" is, in my opinion, insulting - at least, that's how I always try to use it, like making up words like "eckancrap". Also, there's that cult language that's a part of every cult/religion/ (or sports! <gg>) - the way they express their beliefs & dogma - I can still speak/write that way because it's a very effective way of addressing the b.s. in a way even totally brainwashed true-blue ecksheep can understand, and then you can knock that particular belief down with the same "eckspeak", because ekult "teachings" don't even agree with themselves. Do you know what I mean? When you're in a foreign country, you need to speak the language in order to communicate effectively.

      Prometheus - I've noticed you frequently point out the ridiculousness of the initiation system. Now, don't take this the wrong way - you've been where I haven't been, up there at the "top". I have no idea how other eckists feel about those initiations, but I was never really that interested in them, I remember when I got my pink slip for my third, the letter said something like congratultions, you've mastered the astral plane - and I thought whoa, I haven't mastered earth yet and I doubt if I ever will!

      An eckist friend, years after I got out, admitted they thought it was all b.s. but dammit, they'd spent 20 years in the cult, and by golly they'd earned that 5th initiation, and they wanted to be able to perform marriages, etc. Good grief!!

      So, maybe the frequent bitching about how initiations have been slowed down & basically frozen over the years is a very effective way of communicating with eckists who give those initiations importance.

      On the other hand - and oh horrors, I feel awful about this, but perhaps, Prometheus, sometimes you come across as someone who'd placed a great deal of importance on the initiations and were pissed off that you were frozen. And I've learned that yes, although they meant nothing to me, they mean a lot to many eckists, some of whom seem to base their self-worth on their Official Cult ID card.

      I never knew many HIs, and to be honest, was a bit shocked when towards the end I attended a big seminar & volunteered, and got a *very* bad impression of HIs as a group, they seemed like a bunch of total idiots who were stuck on themselves and their "status".

      I think it's quite possible that many start out because of a true spirituality, but the cult places so much emphasis on "advancement", on recruiting, earning more initiations, giving "service" to the cult - which means recruiting and putting on programs & stuff to keep current members busy with cult stuff. In fact, I think few people are aware of what Twitch's original plans for cult members were, to keep them busy 24/7 with books, tapes, doing the spex, going to meetings, and writing reports about what they were learning, etc. He quickly learned that it wasn't necessary to keep his ecksheep so busy, though - and he didn't have to work as hard as he originally thought he'd have to.

      I remember awhile back, reading one of Klemp's "new" discourses, I forget which specific one it was, but it focused on the issue of the "outer" initiations being slowed down, and said that people shouldn't be concerned because they'd get lots of inner "mini" initiations - ha, like 5.1, etc. This IMO is just another way the cult gets people to fantasize whatever they need to keep them happy & continue to send in their $.

      I remember years back, comments about the whole world's "spiritual progress", like when they made hu-chants "public" and started the Official Cult Sunday Worship Service - some eckists were disturbed that the high-holey "hu" seemed to be being downgraded, but my group's HI, who often seemed disturbed about things personally but kept her mouth shut & did as she was told, explained that the "public" hu-chants had lower "vibes" than the "higher" members-only ones. And when they started the Official Clergy thing, which seemed to me (and others) as totally not-eck, she explained that it didn't really mean anything, it just made it possible for eckists to visit in prisons & hospitals, etc., and get better parking spaces. <gg>

      Supposedly, the whole earth grew spiritually, I forget which initiation it's supposedly in, but unless they totally dropped that particular nonsense, I'd think it would've gotten another one by now! <gg> Whether it "earned" it or not.

      Okay, just some thoughts here!!



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma <austinatma@...> wrote:
      > From one perspective these questions reinforce the fundamentally delusional system. Analysis of the card stock used to build the house of cards.
      > Life provides initiatory experiences and our "spiritual" vision is deepened and broadened as we learn to implement what we learn.
      > The self-created drama of initiation and status bestowed is a distractive system of control and influence.
      > The master mirage we imbued with our own capacity to love and connect lives on long after membership has been severed. The use of the eckankar priestcraft language reinforces the illusions and the symbiotic memes that are still active in many of us.
      > On Nov 19, 2011, at 2:56 PM, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      > > Hello All,
      > > It occurred to me
      > > to ask something...
      > > some ECK trivia.
      > >
      > > Is Klemp, as the
      > > Physical (or lower)
      > > Plane Living ECK
      > > Master (LEM), a 12th
      > > Initiate or is he a
      > > 14th Initiate? Is the
      > > LEM (outer) position
      > > limited to being a
      > > 12th?
      > >
      > > Now, I know that
      > > as the Inner Plane
      > > "Mahanta" HK's
      > > supposed to be
      > > a 14th, but is that,
      > > also, true as/for
      > > the LEM? Or, is HK,
      > > also, a 14th Plane
      > > LEM?
      > >
      > > You see, there's that
      > > "coarse vibration" thing
      > > going on.... right?
      > >
      > > Isn't this why more
      > > H.I.s can't be too
      > > refined or advanced
      > > in order to protect
      > > themselves (Soul)
      > > from such coarseness,
      > > here, on the Physical
      > > Plane?
      > >
      > > Is this why most imagine
      > > themselves to be "higher"
      > > on the "inner planes?"
      > > But, it's okay for Klemp
      > > to be able to handle the
      > > coarse vibes, except, for
      > > EMF! If Klemp can't handle
      > > it then maybe he's not
      > > as "high" as he claims...
      > > maybe HK fell from Sugmad's
      > > Grace (like Darwin) and
      > > is hiding this fact. ECKists
      > > had good dreams with
      > > Darwin showing up with
      > > a Blue Light or Blue Star
      > > during the time he, supposedly,
      > > fell... according to Klemp
      > > who, btw, received, more
      > > than a half dozen Higher
      > > Initiations from Darwin.
      > >
      > > Really, though, since
      > > ECKankar is such an
      > > advanced "spiritual
      > > path" why aren't there
      > > a dozen or so 12th
      > > Initiates along with
      > > 11ths, 10ths, and
      > > many more 9ths and
      > > 8ths?
      > >
      > > See, this part doesn't
      > > make sense, or does it?
      > >
      > > What's Klemp afraid of
      > > or is he just petty and
      > > selfish and wants to
      > > remain B.M.O.C.?
      > >
      > > Maybe HK's afraid
      > > of competition. If he
      > > promoted H.I.'s to these
      > > higher initiations, like
      > > the 12th, maybe they'd
      > > leave and start their own
      > > EK Sect. But, wait! They've
      > > already done this and
      > > one was even a 2nd Initiate!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I was thinking back
      > > about being passed
      > > over for a higher
      > > initiation way way
      > > back in the late 80s
      > > and at the time it
      > > really pissed me off.
      > > I almost quit then
      > > and there and wish
      > > I would have. I had
      > > ruffled a few feathers
      > > and the timing was
      > > bad. The initiation
      > > list from the ESC had
      > > just been received by
      > > the RESAs and their
      > > pettiness, suspicion,
      > > and judgmental attitudes
      > > were having an effect
      > > upon, mostly, innocent
      > > victims of Klemp's RESA
      > > hierarchy.
      > >
      > > Why is Klemp and his
      > > RESAs so stingy with
      > > Higher Initiations?
      > >
      > > Anyway, I had to wait
      > > awhile but did finally
      > > get the pink slip. It
      > > wasn't a big deal after
      > > all, but we all made it
      > > seem so didn't we!
      > >
      > > Then again, look at
      > > all of those leadership
      > > classes, intros, Satsang
      > > classes, etc., etc. and
      > > the time and money we
      > > donated. We earned it
      > > all but were never "paid"
      > > as promised. ECK Initiations
      > > are, supposedly, tied
      > > directly to consciousness
      > > so why does consciousness
      > > (for most) end at the
      > > 7th Initiation?
      > >
      > > BTW-Hundreds of 7th
      > > Initiates have been stuck
      > > on an "older" past level
      > > of consciousness which
      > > is lower than what many
      > > 1st Initiates are at today.
      > >
      > > [Klemp stated, about ten
      > > years ago, that most of
      > > those (newbies) coming
      > > into Eckankar, today, have
      > > a higher state of consciousness
      > > over that of many H.I.s]
      > >
      > > The only noticeable lower
      > > and outer plane differences
      > > is that newbies (1st Initiates)
      > > are less indoctrinated with/by
      > > dogma, ESC Guidelines, and
      > > are less experienced with
      > > putting on a good show and
      > > with defensive double talk.
      > > Plus, they feel less fearful
      > > and less threatened for saying
      > > the "wrong" thing or of being
      > > too honest and truthful. Of
      > > course they're less brainwashed,
      > > as well, maybe that's another
      > > reason why Klemp thinks
      > > they're more pure of consciousness.
      > > Eckankar's crap hasn't gummed
      > > up the gears just yet and they
      > > come across as more "real."
      > >
      > > Yes, it has to be frustrating
      > > and insulting for longtime
      > > H.I.s to see Klemp's 30th
      > > anniversary coming up for
      > > 2012. Will this be his last
      > > year? ECKists can only hope!
      > > Will HK give Joan a 12th
      > > before leaving office? She
      > > can only hope! But would a
      > > change in leadership produce
      > > more and higher initiations?
      > > What if it does? They're meaningless
      > > anyway!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >

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