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5953Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's Hierarchy and Initiation Process is Insulting

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  • Austin Atma
    Dec 4, 2011
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      Exactly... Selling water to fish.  

      On Nov 28, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:

       

      I have decided there is no spiritual path. If you are sitting in your living room you don't need a path to find it! I feel it is a matter of becoming aware of who or what you are.
      Diana

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello AA,
      > I enjoy your perspective
      > and comments.
      >
      > I think that this site,
      > for me, is to explore
      > not only "why" we all
      > bought into Eckankar,
      > but why we felt we
      > needed another religion
      > per se.
      >
      > Then, again, it was
      > bait and switch since
      > most of us saw it (EK)
      > as a "spiritual path"
      > versus a religion. Some
      > are still under the mis-
      > understanding and
      > delusion that Eckankar
      > is a "path" versus a "religion."
      >
      > However, let's not forget
      > that Twitchell went back
      > on what he said about being
      > anti-religion and made
      > EK a religion for tax purposes
      > and for other non-profit
      > org benefits and protection.
      >
      > But, it was Klemp who came
      > up with "Religion" in Eckankar's
      > title and has brought his
      > Lutheran teachings and the
      > most inaccurate, King James,
      > version of the Christian Bible
      > (along with his one-dimensional
      > stories) into the mix with Twitchell's
      > Eastern compilations/distortions.
      >
      > IMO-It seems that there
      > is an innate desire, by each
      > Soul, to Know God and, yes,
      > to return Home. Unfortunately,
      > this, along with giving unscientific,
      > mystical and other imagined
      > explanations of cosmology
      > are, also, hooks that the religious
      > conmen use to grab and trap
      > ignorant and/or unsuspecting
      > people. With Eckankar, mostly,
      > New Age thinkers are the targets.
      >
      > Then again, we bought into
      > what the ego wanted to hear....
      > that this, Eckankar, was the
      > most advanced spiritual path
      > anywhere or ever! How Paul,
      > Darwin, and Harold got to be
      > "Mahantas" and greater than
      > the (4th Plane) God we once
      > worshipped was slid in under
      > the rug with some other crap
      > that we were asked to open
      > our minds to and to "prove"
      > on the "inner" in our "dreams."
      > Apparently, dreaming about
      > something validates what we
      > want/need to believe as being
      > true!
      >
      >
      > Also, this site (ESA)
      > is being used to reach
      > out to those Eckists
      > who look in, every
      > now and then, in order
      > to address issues that
      > they've decided to hide
      > from, often, out of convenience.
      > Sometimes it's easier
      > to remain in the cult
      > than to make changes
      > and to lose contact with
      > EK acquaintances, friends,
      > and family members.
      >
      > Nobody enjoys confrontation,
      > change, or loneliness.
      >
      > And, in Eckankar, there are
      > those "spiritual techniques"
      > that reenforces and sustains
      > both a conscious and subconscious
      > of belief that the EK dogma
      > is true... but it not! There's
      > more to Truth than the empty
      > and redundant words coming
      > from Klemp.
      >
      > Still, ECKists do a lot of
      > rationalizing in order to
      > live with/under all the
      > rules (spoken/written
      > and unspoken) for fear
      > of losing initiation and/or
      > position advancement.
      >
      > Having 20/20 hindsight,
      > still, doesn't always give
      > clarity.
      >
      > Yesterday I was waiting
      > for a haircut and some
      > older women (65 plus)
      > were discussing the OWS
      > protestors and the one
      > was saying how dirty they
      > were and other negative
      > things. True, I'm sure that
      > there are a lot of homeless
      > and street people as well
      > as criminals in the crowd
      > along with the protestors.
      > But, these women should
      > have remembered the sit-
      > ins and protests of the
      > 1960's and 70's in regard
      > to the Vietnam War. Or,
      > maybe they were too busy
      > working and raising their
      > children. In any case, look
      > at how the Vietnam protestors
      > were viewed then! They were
      > right! Look at how the anti-
      > Iraq protestors were viewed
      > and the intimidation tactics
      > used to get Congress in lock-
      > step to support the invasion.
      > And, where were those WMDs?
      >
      > So, when looking at Eckankar
      > or any religion we, also, need
      > to look at hierarchies and the
      > intimidation tactics that religions
      > use. It's interesting that we each
      > vote for a few of those within
      > our political hierarchies, but
      > are stuck for years with the
      > results, unless, we chose to
      > move to another city, county,
      > state, or country.
      >
      > However, with Eckankar,
      > chelas never get to vote
      > for the RESA! But the RESA
      > gets to vote on chelas.
      > This is why, sometimes,
      > it does help to have the
      > right RESA in order to be
      > promoted....but, then, one
      > will eventually hit their head
      > on the glass ceiling of the
      > 7th initiation.
      >
      > Yes, we've been there,
      > done that, and I actually
      > did buy an EK Tee-shirt
      > along with a coffee mug!
      > Plus, I spent thousands
      > of dollars on donations,
      > books, jewelry, tapes,
      > CDs, brochures, bookmarks,
      > pocket posters and cards,
      > etc., etc., etc. That's not
      > even counting the air fare
      > or hotel stays for all of
      > those seminars over the
      > years!
      >
      > Well, that's enough for
      > now. Got to go! However,
      > I encourage everyone here
      > to write or post something
      > about an ECKankar memory
      > ... a blast from the past!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Austin Atma wrote:
      >
      > Isn't it a little less strange
      > now that we're looking
      > at all this rap in our
      > rearview mirrors?
      >
      > We've all got the t-shirt.
      > Trips over.
      >
      > So are we going together
      > fooled again, stoke up
      > the opium pipe and toke
      > ourselves into religious
      > stupor? Or just rehash
      > (bad pun) the monomaniacal
      > mash up of PT and HK?
      >
      > Inoculation against self
      > delusive wishful thinking
      > and weaning ourselves
      > off the religious teat - not
      > finding another to suck on -
      > seems the way out of the
      > rat race of religious political
      > and social superstition once
      > and for all.
      >
      > I do enjoy dipping into the
      > Wreckankar coffee table
      > book of memories.
      >
      > Sometimes when I read the
      > stories of initiations missed
      > etc it reminds me of what
      > a stupid system we bought
      > into. Controlled by hierarchical
      > manipulations of undefinable,
      > yet socially related human
      > evaluations.
      >
      > As they say in the old country
      > frack that.
      >
      > AA
      >
      >
      > "Diana Stanley" wrote:
      >
      >
      > It's all too strange!
      > Diana
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Diana and All,
      > > I remember going
      > > to the HK's first LEM
      > > Youth Conference in
      > > Chicago. Everyone was
      > > lined up to shake his
      > > hand because they/we
      > > wanted to ekperience
      > > the Darshan.
      > >
      > > Klemp later complained
      > > that some people squeezed
      > > his hand too hard but
      > > continued to shake
      > > hands at one or two
      > > more seminars until
      > > complaining about
      > > his hand hurting and
      > > discontinuing what
      > > was beginning to be
      > > seen as a new EK
      > > tradition. Anyway,
      > > at the next seminar
      > > I just stood back and
      > > watched the people
      > > stand in line to get
      > > near him to touch.
      > > It was very strange
      > > for me to see the
      > > looks on their faces.
      > >
      > > It seems that Klemp
      > > went back on what
      > > he said about not
      > > creating anymore
      > > 8th or 9th Initiates,
      > > but has slowed and
      > > limited them and all
      > > Higher Initiations.
      > >
      > > I know that back around
      > > 1987 that Klemp promoted
      > > one East European H.I.
      > > to the 9th. Elmo told me
      > > this and at the time Elmo
      > > was on the ECK Board
      > > and was, of course, an
      > > 8th himself and had been
      > > an 8th way before Klemp
      > > took power. I found out
      > > later that Elmo had told
      > > several people about this
      > > 9th. Actually, according
      > > to EK dogma the 9th isn't
      > > allowed to tell others
      > > that he/she is a 9th,
      > > but it doesn't prohibit
      > > others from telling. Well,
      > > there is the catch-all Law
      > > of Silence, but Elmo was
      > > a free thinker and who's
      > > going to censor him? Not
      > > Klemp! Of course Klemp
      > > can always mention who
      > > these 9ths are or introduce
      > > them as 9th Initiates. HK
      > > could make some H.I.s
      > > 12ths. They don't have to
      > > be LEMs! I wonder if the
      > > Initiation number 9 is on
      > > their ECK Membership Cards?
      > > Strange that a 12th can
      > > be known but a 9th can't?
      > > Too many stupid rules to
      > > follow let alone remember!
      > > I guess that's why the EK Law
      > > of Silence is used so often!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > dianastanley wrote:
      > > I remember when Harold
      > > first became the leader
      > > he went to vist a mutual
      > > friend. The guy asked
      > > him when there would
      > > be 8 an9th initiates.
      > >
      > > Harold said never!
      > >
      > > He also was freaked
      > > out at his first Seminar
      > > wondering why all
      > > these people were
      > > standing in line in
      > > front of him, Mike
      > > said they just want
      > > to shake your hand.
      > > Harold had no clue
      > > how to act so he
      > > began inventing
      > > all the rules anew.
      > > I believe when Harold
      > > goes Ecankar will
      > > begin to fall apart.
      > > Diana
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > <prometheus wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > I was thinking back
      > > > about being passed
      > > > over for a higher
      > > > initiation way way
      > > > back in the late 80s
      > > > and at the time it
      > > > really pissed me off.
      > > > I almost quit then
      > > > and there and wish
      > > > I would have. I had
      > > > ruffled a few feathers
      > > > and the timing was
      > > > bad. The initiation
      > > > list from the ESC had
      > > > just been received by
      > > > the RESAs and their
      > > > pettiness, suspicion,
      > > > and judgmental attitudes
      > > > were having an effect
      > > > upon, mostly, innocent
      > > > victims of Klemp's RESA
      > > > hierarchy.
      > > >
      > > > Why is Klemp and his
      > > > RESAs so stingy with
      > > > Higher Initiations?
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, I had to wait
      > > > awhile but did finally
      > > > get the pink slip. It
      > > > wasn't a big deal after
      > > > all, but we all made it
      > > > seem so didn't we!
      > > >
      > > > Then again, look at
      > > > all of those leadership
      > > > classes, intros, Satsang
      > > > classes, etc., etc. and
      > > > the time and money we
      > > > donated. We earned it
      > > > all but were never "paid"
      > > > as promised. ECK Initiations
      > > > are, supposedly, tied
      > > > directly to consciousness
      > > > so why does consciousness
      > > > (for most) end at the
      > > > 7th Initiation?
      > > >
      > > > BTW-Hundreds of 7th
      > > > Initiates have been stuck
      > > > on an "older" past level
      > > > of consciousness which
      > > > is lower than what many
      > > > 1st Initiates are at today.
      > > >
      > > > [Klemp stated, about ten
      > > > years ago, that most of
      > > > those (newbies) coming
      > > > into Eckankar, today, have
      > > > a higher state of consciousness
      > > > over that of many H.I.s]
      > > >
      > > > The only noticeable lower
      > > > and outer plane differences
      > > > is that newbies (1st Initiates)
      > > > are less indoctrinated with/by
      > > > dogma, ESC Guidelines, and
      > > > are less experienced with
      > > > putting on a good show and
      > > > with defensive double talk.
      > > > Plus, they feel less fearful
      > > > and less threatened for saying
      > > > the "wrong" thing or of being
      > > > too honest and truthful. Of
      > > > course they're less brainwashed,
      > > > as well, maybe that's another
      > > > reason why Klemp thinks
      > > > they're more pure of consciousness.
      > > > Eckankar's crap hasn't gummed
      > > > up the gears just yet and they
      > > > come across as more "real."
      > > >
      > > > Yes, it has to be frustrating
      > > > and insulting for longtime
      > > > H.I.s to see Klemp's 30th
      > > > anniversary coming up for
      > > > 2012. Will this be his last
      > > > year? ECKists can only hope!
      > > > Will HK give Joan a 12th
      > > > before leaving office? She
      > > > can only hope! But would a
      > > > change in leadership produce
      > > > more and higher initiations?
      > > > What if it does? They're meaningless
      > > > anyway!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      >

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