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5951Re: Eckankar's Hierarchy and Initiation Process is Insulting

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  • prometheus_973
    Nov 30, 2011
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      Hello Diana and All,
      Way back before Twitchell
      became a religious scammer
      he shared some opinions
      that, I believe, were insightful.
      It was when he talked about
      being the Cliff Hanger and
      about being your own religion.
      IMO-This is the true "spiritual"
      path.

      Everything is individualized
      but has a group appeal, like
      with religion, including one's
      taste buds! Sometimes it's
      based upon culture. Even those
      who get along as best friends
      don't like the same foods. And,
      one might like coffee while the
      other prefers tea. It gets more
      detailed and individualized even
      for fellow coffee and tea drinkers.

      One person might prefer red
      wine to white or beer to wine
      or doesn't drink alcohol at all
      or might make exceptions for
      special occasions. These choices,
      too, can become complex. Yet,
      these same Twin Souls or Soul
      Mates will share a similar philosophy
      of life... or so it appears on
      the surface. After all, religions
      are based upon the ruling
      group's opinions. And, unseen/
      unknown and invisible masters
      (saints and angels too) prophetic
      opinions are always the same
      as the ruling hierarchy... why
      is that?

      I believe that we all travel
      a unique path which is
      comprised of fate and
      choice driven cycles. But
      alterations to this path/
      journey, created by choices,
      will influence future choices
      and even fate. The journey
      can change.

      I'm not so sure that karma
      is a truism. It helps to explain
      away a lot of bad things and
      gives people hope. Plus, bad
      people will be punished in
      the next lifetime. Or, are they,
      now, being punished in this
      lifetime?

      Therefore, why help a person
      who, obviously, made bad choices
      in a previous lifetime? Or, if
      you think you have some
      unresolved karma with someone
      why not go for it, now, instead
      of remaining true to one's
      mate since that "karma" has,
      obviously, been resolved?
      This is how many ECKists
      tend to rationalize and why
      they will jump from relationship
      to relationship!

      All in all, it seems that
      most people make choices
      according to what they
      think they really believe
      or what they think they
      should, need, and want
      to believe. One can go
      through the motions
      and fake it for others
      and even for oneself,
      to a certain extent, for
      years and years.

      However, most people
      don't want to admit that
      their opinions are influenced
      more by others, some they
      don't even know or would
      have much in common with,
      than they think. Not many
      can block out the effects of
      advertising and subliminal
      messages because people
      want to belong to or identify
      with some group. It's even
      worse when people decide
      to consciously brainwash
      themselves into believing
      what makes them feel good
      about life whether it's true
      or not. This is why religion
      works so well. If ECKists had
      half a brain and really thought
      it through the claims that
      are made don't make sense.

      Prometheus





      Diana Stanley wrote:

      I have decided there
      is no spiritual path.
      If you are sitting in
      your living room you
      don't need a path to
      find it! I feel it is a
      matter of becoming
      aware of who or what
      you are.
      Diana

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello AA,
      > I enjoy your perspective
      > and comments.
      >
      > I think that this site,
      > for me, is to explore
      > not only "why" we all
      > bought into Eckankar,
      > but why we felt we
      > needed another religion
      > per se.
      >
      > Then, again, it was
      > bait and switch since
      > most of us saw it (EK)
      > as a "spiritual path"
      > versus a religion. Some
      > are still under the mis-
      > understanding and
      > delusion that Eckankar
      > is a "path" versus a "religion."
      >
      > However, let's not forget
      > that Twitchell went back
      > on what he said about being
      > anti-religion and made
      > EK a religion for tax purposes
      > and for other non-profit
      > org benefits and protection.
      >
      > But, it was Klemp who came
      > up with "Religion" in Eckankar's
      > title and has brought his
      > Lutheran teachings and the
      > most inaccurate, King James,
      > version of the Christian Bible
      > (along with his one-dimensional
      > stories) into the mix with Twitchell's
      > Eastern compilations/distortions.
      >
      > IMO-It seems that there
      > is an innate desire, by each
      > Soul, to Know God and, yes,
      > to return Home. Unfortunately,
      > this, along with giving unscientific,
      > mystical and other imagined
      > explanations of cosmology
      > are, also, hooks that the religious
      > conmen use to grab and trap
      > ignorant and/or unsuspecting
      > people. With Eckankar, mostly,
      > New Age thinkers are the targets.
      >
      > Then again, we bought into
      > what the ego wanted to hear....
      > that this, Eckankar, was the
      > most advanced spiritual path
      > anywhere or ever! How Paul,
      > Darwin, and Harold got to be
      > "Mahantas" and greater than
      > the (4th Plane) God we once
      > worshipped was slid in under
      > the rug with some other crap
      > that we were asked to open
      > our minds to and to "prove"
      > on the "inner" in our "dreams."
      > Apparently, dreaming about
      > something validates what we
      > want/need to believe as being
      > true!
      >
      >
      > Also, this site (ESA)
      > is being used to reach
      > out to those Eckists
      > who look in, every
      > now and then, in order
      > to address issues that
      > they've decided to hide
      > from, often, out of convenience.
      > Sometimes it's easier
      > to remain in the cult
      > than to make changes
      > and to lose contact with
      > EK acquaintances, friends,
      > and family members.
      >
      > Nobody enjoys confrontation,
      > change, or loneliness.
      >
      > And, in Eckankar, there are
      > those "spiritual techniques"
      > that reenforces and sustains
      > both a conscious and subconscious
      > of belief that the EK dogma
      > is true... but it not! There's
      > more to Truth than the empty
      > and redundant words coming
      > from Klemp.
      >
      > Still, ECKists do a lot of
      > rationalizing in order to
      > live with/under all the
      > rules (spoken/written
      > and unspoken) for fear
      > of losing initiation and/or
      > position advancement.
      >
      > Having 20/20 hindsight,
      > still, doesn't always give
      > clarity.
      >
      > Yesterday I was waiting
      > for a haircut and some
      > older women (65 plus)
      > were discussing the OWS
      > protestors and the one
      > was saying how dirty they
      > were and other negative
      > things. True, I'm sure that
      > there are a lot of homeless
      > and street people as well
      > as criminals in the crowd
      > along with the protestors.
      > But, these women should
      > have remembered the sit-
      > ins and protests of the
      > 1960's and 70's in regard
      > to the Vietnam War. Or,
      > maybe they were too busy
      > working and raising their
      > children. In any case, look
      > at how the Vietnam protestors
      > were viewed then! They were
      > right! Look at how the anti-
      > Iraq protestors were viewed
      > and the intimidation tactics
      > used to get Congress in lock-
      > step to support the invasion.
      > And, where were those WMDs?
      >
      > So, when looking at Eckankar
      > or any religion we, also, need
      > to look at hierarchies and the
      > intimidation tactics that religions
      > use. It's interesting that we each
      > vote for a few of those within
      > our political hierarchies, but
      > are stuck for years with the
      > results, unless, we chose to
      > move to another city, county,
      > state, or country.
      >
      > However, with Eckankar,
      > chelas never get to vote
      > for the RESA! But the RESA
      > gets to vote on chelas.
      > This is why, sometimes,
      > it does help to have the
      > right RESA in order to be
      > promoted....but, then, one
      > will eventually hit their head
      > on the glass ceiling of the
      > 7th initiation.
      >
      > Yes, we've been there,
      > done that, and I actually
      > did buy an EK Tee-shirt
      > along with a coffee mug!
      > Plus, I spent thousands
      > of dollars on donations,
      > books, jewelry, tapes,
      > CDs, brochures, bookmarks,
      > pocket posters and cards,
      > etc., etc., etc. That's not
      > even counting the air fare
      > or hotel stays for all of
      > those seminars over the
      > years!
      >
      > Well, that's enough for
      > now. Got to go! However,
      > I encourage everyone here
      > to write or post something
      > about an ECKankar memory
      > ... a blast from the past!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Austin Atma wrote:
      >
      > Isn't it a little less strange
      > now that we're looking
      > at all this rap in our
      > rearview mirrors?
      >
      > We've all got the t-shirt.
      > Trips over.
      >
      > So are we going together
      > fooled again, stoke up
      > the opium pipe and toke
      > ourselves into religious
      > stupor? Or just rehash
      > (bad pun) the monomaniacal
      > mash up of PT and HK?
      >
      > Inoculation against self
      > delusive wishful thinking
      > and weaning ourselves
      > off the religious teat - not
      > finding another to suck on -
      > seems the way out of the
      > rat race of religious political
      > and social superstition once
      > and for all.
      >
      > I do enjoy dipping into the
      > Wreckankar coffee table
      > book of memories.
      >
      > Sometimes when I read the
      > stories of initiations missed
      > etc it reminds me of what
      > a stupid system we bought
      > into. Controlled by hierarchical
      > manipulations of undefinable,
      > yet socially related human
      > evaluations.
      >
      > As they say in the old country
      > frack that.
      >
      > AA
      >
      >
      > "Diana Stanley" wrote:
      >
      >
      > It's all too strange!
      > Diana
      >
      prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Diana and All,
      > > I remember going
      > > to the HK's first LEM
      > > Youth Conference in
      > > Chicago. Everyone was
      > > lined up to shake his
      > > hand because they/we
      > > wanted to ekperience
      > > the Darshan.
      > >
      > > Klemp later complained
      > > that some people squeezed
      > > his hand too hard but
      > > continued to shake
      > > hands at one or two
      > > more seminars until
      > > complaining about
      > > his hand hurting and
      > > discontinuing what
      > > was beginning to be
      > > seen as a new EK
      > > tradition. Anyway,
      > > at the next seminar
      > > I just stood back and
      > > watched the people
      > > stand in line to get
      > > near him to touch.
      > > It was very strange
      > > for me to see the
      > > looks on their faces.
      > >
      > > It seems that Klemp
      > > went back on what
      > > he said about not
      > > creating anymore
      > > 8th or 9th Initiates,
      > > but has slowed and
      > > limited them and all
      > > Higher Initiations.
      > >
      > > I know that back around
      > > 1987 that Klemp promoted
      > > one East European H.I.
      > > to the 9th. Elmo told me
      > > this and at the time Elmo
      > > was on the ECK Board
      > > and was, of course, an
      > > 8th himself and had been
      > > an 8th way before Klemp
      > > took power. I found out
      > > later that Elmo had told
      > > several people about this
      > > 9th. Actually, according
      > > to EK dogma the 9th isn't
      > > allowed to tell others
      > > that he/she is a 9th,
      > > but it doesn't prohibit
      > > others from telling. Well,
      > > there is the catch-all Law
      > > of Silence, but Elmo was
      > > a free thinker and who's
      > > going to censor him? Not
      > > Klemp! Of course Klemp
      > > can always mention who
      > > these 9ths are or introduce
      > > them as 9th Initiates. HK
      > > could make some H.I.s
      > > 12ths. They don't have to
      > > be LEMs! I wonder if the
      > > Initiation number 9 is on
      > > their ECK Membership Cards?
      > > Strange that a 12th can
      > > be known but a 9th can't?
      > > Too many stupid rules to
      > > follow let alone remember!
      > > I guess that's why the EK Law
      > > of Silence is used so often!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > dianastanley wrote:
      > > I remember when Harold
      > > first became the leader
      > > he went to vist a mutual
      > > friend. The guy asked
      > > him when there would
      > > be 8 an9th initiates.
      > >
      > > Harold said never!
      > >
      > > He also was freaked
      > > out at his first Seminar
      > > wondering why all
      > > these people were
      > > standing in line in
      > > front of him, Mike
      > > said they just want
      > > to shake your hand.
      > > Harold had no clue
      > > how to act so he
      > > began inventing
      > > all the rules anew.
      > > I believe when Harold
      > > goes Ecankar will
      > > begin to fall apart.
      > > Diana
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > <prometheus wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > I was thinking back
      > > > about being passed
      > > > over for a higher
      > > > initiation way way
      > > > back in the late 80s
      > > > and at the time it
      > > > really pissed me off.
      > > > I almost quit then
      > > > and there and wish
      > > > I would have. I had
      > > > ruffled a few feathers
      > > > and the timing was
      > > > bad. The initiation
      > > > list from the ESC had
      > > > just been received by
      > > > the RESAs and their
      > > > pettiness, suspicion,
      > > > and judgmental attitudes
      > > > were having an effect
      > > > upon, mostly, innocent
      > > > victims of Klemp's RESA
      > > > hierarchy.
      > > >
      > > > Why is Klemp and his
      > > > RESAs so stingy with
      > > > Higher Initiations?
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, I had to wait
      > > > awhile but did finally
      > > > get the pink slip. It
      > > > wasn't a big deal after
      > > > all, but we all made it
      > > > seem so didn't we!
      > > >
      > > > Then again, look at
      > > > all of those leadership
      > > > classes, intros, Satsang
      > > > classes, etc., etc. and
      > > > the time and money we
      > > > donated. We earned it
      > > > all but were never "paid"
      > > > as promised. ECK Initiations
      > > > are, supposedly, tied
      > > > directly to consciousness
      > > > so why does consciousness
      > > > (for most) end at the
      > > > 7th Initiation?
      > > >
      > > > BTW-Hundreds of 7th
      > > > Initiates have been stuck
      > > > on an "older" past level
      > > > of consciousness which
      > > > is lower than what many
      > > > 1st Initiates are at today.
      > > >
      > > > [Klemp stated, about ten
      > > > years ago, that most of
      > > > those (newbies) coming
      > > > into Eckankar, today, have
      > > > a higher state of consciousness
      > > > over that of many H.I.s]
      > > >
      > > > The only noticeable lower
      > > > and outer plane differences
      > > > is that newbies (1st Initiates)
      > > > are less indoctrinated with/by
      > > > dogma, ESC Guidelines, and
      > > > are less experienced with
      > > > putting on a good show and
      > > > with defensive double talk.
      > > > Plus, they feel less fearful
      > > > and less threatened for saying
      > > > the "wrong" thing or of being
      > > > too honest and truthful. Of
      > > > course they're less brainwashed,
      > > > as well, maybe that's another
      > > > reason why Klemp thinks
      > > > they're more pure of consciousness.
      > > > Eckankar's crap hasn't gummed
      > > > up the gears just yet and they
      > > > come across as more "real."

      > > > Yes, it has to be frustrating
      > > > and insulting for longtime
      > > > H.I.s to see Klemp's 30th
      > > > anniversary coming up for
      > > > 2012. Will this be his last
      > > > year? ECKists can only hope!
      > > > Will HK give Joan a 12th
      > > > before leaving office? She
      > > > can only hope! But would a
      > > > change in leadership produce
      > > > more and higher initiations?
      > > > What if it does? They're meaningless
      > > > anyway!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
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