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5772Re: H.I. Letter- June 2011- Ask the Master

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  • prometheus_973
    Jun 12, 2011
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      Hello Non eckster and All,
      Before I forget, would you mind commenting
      on Klemp's front page article of the June 2011
      H.I. Letter (Klemp gives a psychic reading).

      Yes, Klemp seems very aloof but then again
      he's greater than God, who is a 4th plane deity,
      according to HK's Autobiography (p. 385) and
      according to Twitchell's Shariyat. It's kind of
      counter productive to tell Eckists not to worship
      him since he claims to be higher than the "God"
      (by whatever name) that other religions and
      millions, if not billions, of people pray to and
      worship.

      Yes, Klemp states that he learned "How to
      play the game" in order to be released early
      when locked up in a mental institution due
      to his ECK Master/bridge-tender delusions,
      suicide attempt and airport strip tease. Later,
      while working at the ESC in Menlo Park Klemp,
      again, played his game of deception but this
      time it was played upon Darwin in order to
      be chosen as a non-threatening replacement
      LEM. Darwin trusted Klemp but because of
      some behind-the-scenes disagreements due
      to poor business choices and a lack of ethics
      Darwin was kicked to the curb. The Lack of
      compassion, forgiveness, love and empathy
      seem to be long-time personality traits of
      Klemp's.

      FYI: All Eckists should read Klemp's 1987
      book "Soul Travelers of the Far Country."
      Klemp conveniently omitted much key info
      given in this book when he rewrote it for
      his Autobiography. Chapter 7 is really good
      and tells about that Sound Proof (no Sound)
      Dark Room (no Light) where HK worked daily
      at the ESC and how he got Darwin to "hesitantly"
      meet with him there (twice) to discuss the
      transition. HK also admits to his frustration
      even after being given his 7th or 8th initiation
      and Marge saying, Why not be happy with
      being an Eck Master? Although, according
      to the Shariyat, only after the 12th can one
      be asked to become Eck Master.

      What's even more ironic is that there are
      hundreds of Eckists, mostly female, that
      could do a better job at running Eckankar
      than Klemp! But, females are excluded from
      the top spot because of some silly crap that
      Twitchell dreamed up. What's even more
      amazing is that these Eckankar women
      believe this stupid "negative atom" B.S.!
      Both Positive and Negative are all of the
      Eck in the lower planes. Therefore, it
      shouldn't matter... especially for Higher
      Initiates who have established their con
      in the Higher God Worlds of EK... correct?
      It's just stupid that these EK women have
      submitted themselves to, yet, another
      religion run by Males Only. Women do
      most of the work in Eckankar but will
      never sit on the throne, hence, even
      a male Eckist who is now a second initiate
      has the potential to far exceed ALL current
      or future female RESAs, 8th or 9th initiates.

      Prometheus


      "Non" eckchains wrote:
      >
      Hi Prometheus,

      Yes it does sound like there is a lot of lying and distortion. It just seems like Klemp is contemptuous about something. I have heard that other Cult leaders often were Bullies in childhood. Also, as you noted, who knows about those boy's religious Boarding Schools. Maybe there is also just some kind of Psychiatric problems as well, A penchant for getting naked in air ports and jumping off bridges, etc. He's already admitted having to lie to the Psychiatrist, right?

      Anytime there is this weird self-hate about sexuality it seems like all kinds of perverse manifestations occur. Religions always seem to equate "Purity" with virginity, which is ridiculous, especially when it seems like it is usually the women who have to be the most pure by being a virgin. Of course this never really fits with reality as a human biological being. Lust. Talk about cognitive dissonance. So much attention is placed on supposed negativity. It is so obvious as a control tactic. Don't feel anything like doubt or anger at the hypocritical lem.

      Non eckster ; )

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Non eckster,
      I don't believe Klemp had a
      tough or an abusive childhood
      except for having to do farm
      chores, but that was expected
      from all farm kids. FYI, HK had
      an Older brother and a younger
      sister and brother as well. Thus,
      there was no "Virgin Birth" as
      required in Eckankar's first Holy
      Book the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
      Book One, Chapter 6.

      Klemp's father died (Oct. 1971)
      when he was around 30 years old.

      BTW- I always heard that Hitler
      had a charitable and protective
      mother and that his father died
      when he was a young boy. Then
      again, I can see why he lied about
      having it tough just as Klemp lies.
      But, it could be that this is just more
      delusional thinking and a means
      of coping which comes from an
      overprotective ego.

      As far as that All Boys Lutheran
      School that Klemp attended...
      it wasn't because little Harold
      was spiritual or was seeking God.
      He has admitted that he wanted
      to go because his cousin was
      attending... and he wanted to
      get away from having to do farm
      chores, especially, during those
      Wisconsin winters. But, remember
      too, HK also isolated himself from
      his siblings.


      The funny thing is that Twitchell
      (the first Mahanta) had something
      negative to say about these "All
      Boys Schools." In the Summer
      of 1971 Twitchell gave some
      interviews that were put into
      the book, "Difficulties Of Becoming
      The Living ECK Master." On pages
      46-48 the Mahanta/LEM gives
      this explanation and warning:

      "This is one reason we don't have
      ashrams in ECKANKAR. They can
      create unhealthy situations and
      individuals seldom have their own
      psychic space to breathe in. Now
      you see, the same thing occurs in
      seminaries of the Christian church.
      These Christian seminaries, when
      you're training young boys to grow
      up, they are looking for all the
      things which will explain to them
      manhood or the problems of life.
      It can create sexual aberrations.
      ... you can walk around the corner
      of one of these ashrams or the
      monasteries and find the boys there
      abusing themselves... this seems
      to be part of the animal nature in
      which Indians in the religious orders
      allow these young people to do. I
      had always been surprised to see
      that myself, no matter how much
      I had become accustomed to chancing
      upon such a thing."

      In the next sentence (page 48) Twitch
      mentions leaving India and that he
      was about 16 years old at this time...
      liar! Even Klemp states on Eckankar.org
      that at age 27, in 1935, that Twitchell
      had never travelled far from home
      when he was "exaggerating" and
      "twisting facts" to get into "Who's
      Who in Kentucky." Interesting, that
      in 1971, that Twichell (the Mahanta)
      is still lying about his past. But, what
      does this really tell us? It tells us that
      Gross and Klemp merely inherited
      an organization/church (scam) built
      upon a foundation of lies. Klemp is
      both the protector and perpetrator
      of lies, distortion, and delusion.

      Anyway, it seems that Twitchell and
      Klemp have an opposite view on the
      subject of masturbation. Klemp
      recently commented on the subject
      and said that it was okay. However,
      IMO, the act itself fulfills (natural)
      desires of lust. It's quite a quagmire
      for the Mahanta and Spiritual Leader
      of Eckankar and Modern Prophet
      (Klemp) to take such a position.
      Does one repress these innate desires
      and become frustrated, or become
      a "spiritual" hypocrite by saying one
      thing and doing another? Or, is one
      able to take the, supposedly, higher
      "spiritual" path and remain chaste
      and devoid of "bad" lower plane
      desires and attachments? Apparently
      Klemp is saying no!

      Prometheus


      eckchains wrote:
      Interesting history of Klemp's childhood. Seems odd that his father would pay
      for him to go to a religious boarding school. But who knows for sure the
      dynamics involved. We don't know what kind of discipline was used. Shaming and
      and physical abuse can make a child grow up to be a sociopath and they learn not
      to really feel empathy, often mistreating their own children. Of course it is
      not 100%. There are also examples of those who had a stronger constitution and
      eventually learned how to change and be a better person instead, but usually it
      requires a willingness to accept help, whatever the form.

      When I watch Klemp he seems to always have this superior, contemptuous look in
      his eyes, no matter how big the intermittent practiced grin. It is reported that
      Hitler was beaten on almost a daily basis, and bragged about how much of a
      beating he could take without crying. He was a gang leader in his teens, shall
      we say the worst kind of Cult leader, ruthless.

      It is also interesting that Klemp has a ruthless quality to his personality.
      When he fought it out with Gross in court over who was the real eck master or
      mahanta he eventually claimed absolute power over his little eck kingdom. H.I.
      eckists I know have that same ruthless quality, in that they are ready to go to
      war if you ask too many questions about their precious eckankar. They are also
      big hypocrites. Anyone want some eck love?

      Non eckster ; )

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Non eckster and All,
      > I always thought that a combination
      > of karma and choice were available
      > to Souls who were future Eckists in
      > this lifetime. After all, it has been stated
      > that we had been EK chelas in past lives.
      > Therefore, the Mahanta would intervene
      > for us and by-pass the Lords of Karma,
      > and, if we had advanced far enough that
      > we would be permitted to have some
      > choices as well.
      >
      >
      > Here's Klemp's response:
      > "Your experience was much like mine
      > too. I would have thought long and hard
      > before engaging in another lifetime with
      > Dad for a parent. He had many good points,
      > to be sure. However, as I left childhood,
      > we were increasingly uncomfortable around
      > each other."
      >
      > ME: Klemp is not being completely honest.
      > Little Harold was uncomfortable around most
      > people, especially, adults. He criticized and
      > judged people constantly and had a negative
      > attitude. Klemp chose to be sent to an all boys
      > Lutheran school and this was a financial burden
      > to his family, but instead of appreciation he gave
      > them disdain. And, little Harold only contributed
      > to farm chores during the Summer, thus, putting
      > more strain on other family members. HK's unloving
      > attitude and lack of empathy is transparent.
      >
      > HK: "People often have an exalted view of
      > how much they say they have in their own
      > lives. Usually it amounts to very little.
      >
      > BUT to gain esteem in their own eyes for
      > dreams unmet, they tell others that they
      > were spiritually advanced enough to choose
      > the conditions of their own rebirth. It really
      > is an excuse in delusion." [end]
      >
      > ME: Isn't that what Klemp has done? Isn't
      > that what Paul and Darwin did as well?
      > True, there are a lot of delusional H.I.'s,
      > but can one blame them when they emulate
      > Klemp? The Catch-22 is that even though
      > Klemp's warning is put into print it won't
      > matter. The delusion is so thick and encrusted
      > that neither Klemp or his H.I.s will recognize
      > it! Delusion protects them (and their egos)
      > from the Truth. If anyone has an "exalted
      > view" of who they think they are it's the
      > fake Mahanta/Spiritual Master Klemp! LOL!
      > It's the blind leading the blind!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > eckchains wrote:
      > Parents and society are responsible for nurturing and raising their children
      > with compassion and non abusively. It is an absurd New Age belief that
      children
      > choose their parents. Children do not have that choice. Abused children often
      > feel responsible for bad parenting, and are soooo much better off if the
      parents
      > are there for them and doing the best they can without being authoritarian or
      > neglectful. Psychological studies bear this out
      >
      > I heard on the radio that it is even stated in the Bible and other idiotic
      > religious texts, that those who do not "honor" their parents should be put to
      > death. Children aren't property. And some parents should be in prison, IMHO.
      >
      > Non eckster ; )
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > > Q: "Several times in the last few
      > > days I have heard different Eckists,
      > > an H.I. included, talk about how
      > > people, as Soul, choose their parents
      > > and the circumstances into which
      > > they will be born. Most of the chelas
      > > in my area seem to subscribe to
      > > this belief. My understanding is that
      > > some Souls have worked out their
      > > karma enough to have earned the
      > > right to choose for themselves but
      > > that maybe not all people or even
      > > all Eckists fit into this category.
      > >
      > > One night in the dream state, I was
      > > shown what occurred before I was
      > > born into this lifetime. I was before
      > > the Lords of Karma. They told me
      > > what the conditions would be for the
      > > first eighteen years of this lifetime.
      > > I did not have a choice in the matter.
      > > I would appreciate any clarity or
      > > insights you could give me about
      > > this aspect of the ECK teachings."
      > >
      > > ME: Before giving Klemp's response
      > > does anyone else want to comment
      > > and give their opinions. Since Klemp
      > > had issues with his father and didn't
      > > chose to attend his father's funeral
      > > or comfort his mother from her grief
      > > his response to this topic will be more
      > > bias. What would be a balanced and
      > > detached response to this Lords of
      > > Karma issue on a Soul level?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
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