5771Re: H.I. Letter- June 2011- Ask the Master
- Jun 11, 2011Hi Prometheus,
Yes it does sound like there is a lot of lying and distortion. It just seems like Klemp is contemptuous about something. I have heard that other Cult leaders often were Bullies in childhood. Also, as you noted, who knows about those boy's religious Boarding Schools. Maybe there is also just some kind of Psychiatric problems as well, A penchant for getting naked in air ports and jumping off bridges, etc. He's already admitted having to lie to the Psychiatrist, right?
Anytime there is this weird self-hate about sexuality it seems like all kinds of perverse manifestations occur. Religions always seem to equate "Purity" with virginity, which is ridiculous, especially when it seems like it is usually the women who have to be the most pure by being a virgin. Of course this never really fits with reality as a human biological being. Lust. Talk about cognitive dissonance. So much attention is placed on supposed negativity. It is so obvious as a control tactic. Don't feel anything like doubt or anger at the hypocritical lem.
Non eckster ; )
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
> Hello Non eckster,
> I don't believe Klemp had a
> tough or an abusive childhood
> except for having to do farm
> chores, but that was expected
> from all farm kids. FYI, HK had
> an Older brother and a younger
> sister and brother as well. Thus,
> there was no "Virgin Birth" as
> required in Eckankar's first Holy
> Book the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
> Book One, Chapter 6.
> Klemp's father died (Oct. 1971)
> when he was around 30 years old.
> BTW- I always heard that Hitler
> had a charitable and protective
> mother and that his father died
> when he was a young boy. Then
> again, I can see why he lied about
> having it tough just as Klemp lies.
> But, it could be that this is just more
> delusional thinking and a means
> of coping which comes from an
> overprotective ego.
> As far as that All Boys Lutheran
> School that Klemp attended...
> it wasn't because little Harold
> was spiritual or was seeking God.
> He has admitted that he wanted
> to go because his cousin was
> attending... and he wanted to
> get away from having to do farm
> chores, especially, during those
> Wisconsin winters. But, remember
> too, HK also isolated himself from
> his siblings.
> The funny thing is that Twitchell
> (the first Mahanta) had something
> negative to say about these "All
> Boys Schools." In the Summer
> of 1971 Twitchell gave some
> interviews that were put into
> the book, "Difficulties Of Becoming
> The Living ECK Master." On pages
> 46-48 the Mahanta/LEM gives
> this explanation and warning:
> "This is one reason we don't have
> ashrams in ECKANKAR. They can
> create unhealthy situations and
> individuals seldom have their own
> psychic space to breathe in. Now
> you see, the same thing occurs in
> seminaries of the Christian church.
> These Christian seminaries, when
> you're training young boys to grow
> up, they are looking for all the
> things which will explain to them
> manhood or the problems of life.
> It can create sexual aberrations.
> ... you can walk around the corner
> of one of these ashrams or the
> monasteries and find the boys there
> abusing themselves... this seems
> to be part of the animal nature in
> which Indians in the religious orders
> allow these young people to do. I
> had always been surprised to see
> that myself, no matter how much
> I had become accustomed to chancing
> upon such a thing."
> In the next sentence (page 48) Twitch
> mentions leaving India and that he
> was about 16 years old at this time...
> liar! Even Klemp states on Eckankar.org
> that at age 27, in 1935, that Twitchell
> had never travelled far from home
> when he was "exaggerating" and
> "twisting facts" to get into "Who's
> Who in Kentucky." Interesting, that
> in 1971, that Twichell (the Mahanta)
> is still lying about his past. But, what
> does this really tell us? It tells us that
> Gross and Klemp merely inherited
> an organization/church (scam) built
> upon a foundation of lies. Klemp is
> both the protector and perpetrator
> of lies, distortion, and delusion.
> Anyway, it seems that Twitchell and
> Klemp have an opposite view on the
> subject of masturbation. Klemp
> recently commented on the subject
> and said that it was okay. However,
> IMO, the act itself fulfills (natural)
> desires of lust. It's quite a quagmire
> for the Mahanta and Spiritual Leader
> of Eckankar and Modern Prophet
> (Klemp) to take such a position.
> Does one repress these innate desires
> and become frustrated, or become
> a "spiritual" hypocrite by saying one
> thing and doing another? Or, is one
> able to take the, supposedly, higher
> "spiritual" path and remain chaste
> and devoid of "bad" lower plane
> desires and attachments? Apparently
> Klemp is saying no!
> eckchains wrote:
> Interesting history of Klemp's childhood. Seems odd that his father would pay
> for him to go to a religious boarding school. But who knows for sure the
> dynamics involved. We don't know what kind of discipline was used. Shaming and
> and physical abuse can make a child grow up to be a sociopath and they learn not
> to really feel empathy, often mistreating their own children. Of course it is
> not 100%. There are also examples of those who had a stronger constitution and
> eventually learned how to change and be a better person instead, but usually it
> requires a willingness to accept help, whatever the form.
> When I watch Klemp he seems to always have this superior, contemptuous look in
> his eyes, no matter how big the intermittent practiced grin. It is reported that
> Hitler was beaten on almost a daily basis, and bragged about how much of a
> beating he could take without crying. He was a gang leader in his teens, shall
> we say the worst kind of Cult leader, ruthless.
> It is also interesting that Klemp has a ruthless quality to his personality.
> When he fought it out with Gross in court over who was the real eck master or
> mahanta he eventually claimed absolute power over his little eck kingdom. H.I.
> eckists I know have that same ruthless quality, in that they are ready to go to
> war if you ask too many questions about their precious eckankar. They are also
> big hypocrites. Anyone want some eck love?
> Non eckster ; )
> prometheus wrote:
> > Hello Non eckster and All,
> > I always thought that a combination
> > of karma and choice were available
> > to Souls who were future Eckists in
> > this lifetime. After all, it has been stated
> > that we had been EK chelas in past lives.
> > Therefore, the Mahanta would intervene
> > for us and by-pass the Lords of Karma,
> > and, if we had advanced far enough that
> > we would be permitted to have some
> > choices as well.
> > Here's Klemp's response:
> > "Your experience was much like mine
> > too. I would have thought long and hard
> > before engaging in another lifetime with
> > Dad for a parent. He had many good points,
> > to be sure. However, as I left childhood,
> > we were increasingly uncomfortable around
> > each other."
> > ME: Klemp is not being completely honest.
> > Little Harold was uncomfortable around most
> > people, especially, adults. He criticized and
> > judged people constantly and had a negative
> > attitude. Klemp chose to be sent to an all boys
> > Lutheran school and this was a financial burden
> > to his family, but instead of appreciation he gave
> > them disdain. And, little Harold only contributed
> > to farm chores during the Summer, thus, putting
> > more strain on other family members. HK's unloving
> > attitude and lack of empathy is transparent.
> > HK: "People often have an exalted view of
> > how much they say they have in their own
> > lives. Usually it amounts to very little.
> > BUT to gain esteem in their own eyes for
> > dreams unmet, they tell others that they
> > were spiritually advanced enough to choose
> > the conditions of their own rebirth. It really
> > is an excuse in delusion." [end]
> > ME: Isn't that what Klemp has done? Isn't
> > that what Paul and Darwin did as well?
> > True, there are a lot of delusional H.I.'s,
> > but can one blame them when they emulate
> > Klemp? The Catch-22 is that even though
> > Klemp's warning is put into print it won't
> > matter. The delusion is so thick and encrusted
> > that neither Klemp or his H.I.s will recognize
> > it! Delusion protects them (and their egos)
> > from the Truth. If anyone has an "exalted
> > view" of who they think they are it's the
> > fake Mahanta/Spiritual Master Klemp! LOL!
> > It's the blind leading the blind!
> > Prometheus
> > eckchains wrote:
> > Parents and society are responsible for nurturing and raising their children
> > with compassion and non abusively. It is an absurd New Age belief that
> > choose their parents. Children do not have that choice. Abused children often
> > feel responsible for bad parenting, and are soooo much better off if the
> > are there for them and doing the best they can without being authoritarian or
> > neglectful. Psychological studies bear this out
> > I heard on the radio that it is even stated in the Bible and other idiotic
> > religious texts, that those who do not "honor" their parents should be put to
> > death. Children aren't property. And some parents should be in prison, IMHO.
> > Non eckster ; )
> > prometheus wrote:
> > > Q: "Several times in the last few
> > > days I have heard different Eckists,
> > > an H.I. included, talk about how
> > > people, as Soul, choose their parents
> > > and the circumstances into which
> > > they will be born. Most of the chelas
> > > in my area seem to subscribe to
> > > this belief. My understanding is that
> > > some Souls have worked out their
> > > karma enough to have earned the
> > > right to choose for themselves but
> > > that maybe not all people or even
> > > all Eckists fit into this category.
> > >
> > > One night in the dream state, I was
> > > shown what occurred before I was
> > > born into this lifetime. I was before
> > > the Lords of Karma. They told me
> > > what the conditions would be for the
> > > first eighteen years of this lifetime.
> > > I did not have a choice in the matter.
> > > I would appreciate any clarity or
> > > insights you could give me about
> > > this aspect of the ECK teachings."
> > >
> > > ME: Before giving Klemp's response
> > > does anyone else want to comment
> > > and give their opinions. Since Klemp
> > > had issues with his father and didn't
> > > chose to attend his father's funeral
> > > or comfort his mother from her grief
> > > his response to this topic will be more
> > > bias. What would be a balanced and
> > > detached response to this Lords of
> > > Karma issue on a Soul level?
> > >
> > > Prometheus
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