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5763Re: Klemp's Trickery of Belief

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  • Moby700
    May 20, 2011
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      I have really enjoyed this analysis. It makes sense that HI's would need a persona - how in the world could they ever authentically integrate all that e-crap?

      A RESA once told me that her favorite movie was "Date With An Angel". Ha. So help me. And that film is the most juvenile, nonsensical thing one could imagine.

      Thanks for the thoughtful response.

      Moby




      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Moby,
      > Yes, I had previously stated,
      >
      > "The longer one remains in Eckankar and the
      > higher in Initiations a person is (6-8) the less
      > advanced in consciousness they have become.
      > The delusion and the lie has become the truth.
      > True, they have become skilled speakers, promoters
      > and organizers but that's about it. And, yes,
      > the higher the rank the more they are admired."
      >
      >
      > One has to understand that people placed
      > in unique situations where certain nice, or
      > genteel behaviour is expected and required
      > are merely "acting" the part. What one sees
      > is the "tip of the iceberg" or a facade.
      >
      > Plus, there's the fact that many H.I. Leaders
      > and authors, speakers, and even musicians
      > are placed upon pedestals. It's not until one
      > gets to "know" these people under more normal
      > circumstances away from ECK events, outside
      > of their leadership or special role, does one
      > begin to understand what their broad range
      > of opinions (likes and dislikes) are and to see
      > into their truer personalities. Many are good
      > people just like us. They simply bought into
      > the Eckankar scam sooner and were promoted
      > faster. Generally these H.I. Leaders present,
      > or package, themselves differently because
      > their delusion has created a new persona.
      >
      > Many are good at expressing ideas that they
      > have gleaned, formulated, studied, rehearsed,
      > and that have been reinforced via role playing
      > experiences over time.
      >
      > The roles they have accepted and created are
      > based upon ECK dogma (the lies of Twitchell).
      > In truth, these H.I.s are just like anyone else
      > who buys into delusion. Their consciousness
      > and awareness, in fact, is often lower than one's
      > expectations. This is where the imagination
      > comes into play. 7ths imagine they are 8ths
      > on the inner which, btw, carries over to the
      > outer, and so on and so forth. Many H.I.s
      > are very naive, fearful, gullible, closed minded,
      > fantasize and have a degree of arrested development.
      > After all, the belief in a phony "Mahanta" cannot
      > elevate a person's consciousness... just the
      > opposite! It, at the least, creates co-dependency!
      > This is true even with those H.I.s who are
      > egomaniacal control freaks.
      >
      > Those H.I.s who are higher in initiations and
      > years of membership need to pretend, dream,
      > fantasize, and rationalize more than the average
      > ECKist. I'm amazed at their delusion and at the
      > limitations (analytical and sensual) they have
      > imposed upon themselves. Just ask them what
      > their favorite books or movies are and see how
      > limited and juvenile their interests are. Animal
      > Angels anyone? How about human ones?
      >
      > I'll admit that I once had H.I.s upon pedestals.
      > I've had non-Eckists and former Eckists upon
      > pedestals too. That changed when I was able
      > to speak to them more and find out more about
      > them when discussing other issues. One has to
      > get people to let their guard down in order to
      > discover the individual. I'll admit that I felt disillusioned
      > after learning the truth about my idols. Then,
      > I realized that I was the one who had given
      > them power over and above me. I imagined that
      > they knew more, and they did about some things,
      > but within Eckankar's org it's, basically, about
      > dogma, or an organizational (guideline) issue.
      >
      > I actually thought that some H.I.s were more
      > "spiritual" due to their Initiation rank or the
      > books they had written, etc.. Wow! I was wrong!
      > They were just more rehearsed.
      >
      > One's perspective and consciousness will change
      > and expand, naturally, when they leave religion
      > behind... Eckankar included.
      >
      > FYI-Some EK leaders are scammers and have
      > full knowledge of their deceptions. Klemp uses
      > generalities (dreams, etc.) to spread and "verify"
      > his false teachings, but it all needs enhancement
      > via the subjective imagination. Actually the false
      > prophets of Eckankar, Klemp especially, gave
      > themselves the power over us, and we bought
      > into it. We trusted and were fooled!
      >
      > IMO-We are all equals (as Soul). This is one of
      > the contradictions of Eckankar since initiations
      > take away equality. Look at how Klemp, a 14th,
      > is treated over 2nd, 6th, 7th or 8th initiates.
      > After all, earth and everything here is no higher
      > than the 4th Plane according to Eckankar. The
      > (two) Holy Books of Eckankar, the Shariyats,
      > are for the First Two Planes! And, Initiations
      > correspond to the God Worlds or Planes of EK.
      > What happened to Book 3 & 4 Harold?
      >
      > Actually, it's not necessary for Klemp to defend
      > himself because he doesn't have to. What he says
      > goes. He can make up anything and is believed.
      > ECKists have no choice but to take the good crap
      > with the bad crap, except, many will pick and choose
      > what they want to follow... including his guidelines
      > or RESAs.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Moby700 wrote:
      > Prometheus, you say something in this post which
      > I have been thinking about. I only spent 5 years
      > in ekult before I found numerous reasons to leave.
      > But I never considered the idea that HIs were not
      > advancing in consciousness. I can see your point,
      > though. It makes sense.
      >
      > You have known far more HIs than I will ever meet.
      > Did you find this consistently? That HIs are actually
      > lowering/limiting their consciousness?
      >
      > It is an interesting question.
      >
      > Moby...
      >
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > If someone told you that you appeared
      > > in their dream and were mean to them
      > > and wanted you to apologize would
      > > you?
      > >
      > > Eckists will sometimes dream of Klemp
      > > but he has no knowledge of them or of
      > > the dream. He has to be told of the dream
      > > in a snail mail letter. Then, he has to decide
      > > if it was a positive dream in order to share
      > > it in a talk, an ECK pub, or in another book.
      > > If it was negative then he doesn't take credit
      > > for it... that's the fault of the dreamer.
      > >
      > > Anyway, I thought this one-sided relationship
      > > was worth looking at again. However, I'm
      > > still puzzled as to why ECKists, who assume
      > > they are so "spiritually" advanced, don't see
      > > how someone else could use this same guise
      > > to scam people. If someone else could use it
      > > then why don't they think Klemp has? Maybe
      > > they're tired of looking for a religion and Eckankar
      > > at least talks about dreams and supports other
      > > New Age and Alternative Medicine beliefs.
      > >
      > > What's both amusing and sad are two factors.
      > > The longer one remains in Eckankar and the
      > > higher in Initiations a person is (6-8) the less
      > > advanced in consciousness they have become.
      > > The delusion and the lie has become the truth.
      > > True, they have become skilled speakers, promoters
      > > and organizers but that's about it. And, yes,
      > > the higher the rank the more they are admired.
      > >
      > > The other factor is even sadder. People have
      > > dedicated their lives and vocations to Eckankar
      > > and work at the ESC only to discover that it's
      > > not what they originally thought it was or what
      > > they thought they would become. They've become
      > > lost in another meaningless religion. Sure they
      > > have some ECK friends and they once believed
      > > that they made a difference and helped to raise
      > > world consciousness blah blah blah, instead, others
      > > have become alienated from them as they become
      > > walking talking ECK brochures. Pete and repeat!
      > > It's no wonder they dream about that crap! But
      > > those working at the ESC for all of those years
      > > are trapped. What else do they have, where else
      > > could they go? Just keep smiling and giving lip
      > > service to higher consciousness. Just remember
      > > one thing, if Klemp can fake it for all of those
      > > years then you can too! Well, actually, Klemp has
      > > an easier time at faking it since he's not around
      > > people all day long.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      >
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