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5762Re: Klemp's Trickery of Belief

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  • prometheus_973
    May 19, 2011
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      Hello Moby,
      Yes, I had previously stated,

      "The longer one remains in Eckankar and the
      higher in Initiations a person is (6-8) the less
      advanced in consciousness they have become.
      The delusion and the lie has become the truth.
      True, they have become skilled speakers, promoters
      and organizers but that's about it. And, yes,
      the higher the rank the more they are admired."


      One has to understand that people placed
      in unique situations where certain nice, or
      genteel behaviour is expected and required
      are merely "acting" the part. What one sees
      is the "tip of the iceberg" or a facade.

      Plus, there's the fact that many H.I. Leaders
      and authors, speakers, and even musicians
      are placed upon pedestals. It's not until one
      gets to "know" these people under more normal
      circumstances away from ECK events, outside
      of their leadership or special role, does one
      begin to understand what their broad range
      of opinions (likes and dislikes) are and to see
      into their truer personalities. Many are good
      people just like us. They simply bought into
      the Eckankar scam sooner and were promoted
      faster. Generally these H.I. Leaders present,
      or package, themselves differently because
      their delusion has created a new persona.

      Many are good at expressing ideas that they
      have gleaned, formulated, studied, rehearsed,
      and that have been reinforced via role playing
      experiences over time.

      The roles they have accepted and created are
      based upon ECK dogma (the lies of Twitchell).
      In truth, these H.I.s are just like anyone else
      who buys into delusion. Their consciousness
      and awareness, in fact, is often lower than one's
      expectations. This is where the imagination
      comes into play. 7ths imagine they are 8ths
      on the inner which, btw, carries over to the
      outer, and so on and so forth. Many H.I.s
      are very naive, fearful, gullible, closed minded,
      fantasize and have a degree of arrested development.
      After all, the belief in a phony "Mahanta" cannot
      elevate a person's consciousness... just the
      opposite! It, at the least, creates co-dependency!
      This is true even with those H.I.s who are
      egomaniacal control freaks.

      Those H.I.s who are higher in initiations and
      years of membership need to pretend, dream,
      fantasize, and rationalize more than the average
      ECKist. I'm amazed at their delusion and at the
      limitations (analytical and sensual) they have
      imposed upon themselves. Just ask them what
      their favorite books or movies are and see how
      limited and juvenile their interests are. Animal
      Angels anyone? How about human ones?

      I'll admit that I once had H.I.s upon pedestals.
      I've had non-Eckists and former Eckists upon
      pedestals too. That changed when I was able
      to speak to them more and find out more about
      them when discussing other issues. One has to
      get people to let their guard down in order to
      discover the individual. I'll admit that I felt disillusioned
      after learning the truth about my idols. Then,
      I realized that I was the one who had given
      them power over and above me. I imagined that
      they knew more, and they did about some things,
      but within Eckankar's org it's, basically, about
      dogma, or an organizational (guideline) issue.

      I actually thought that some H.I.s were more
      "spiritual" due to their Initiation rank or the
      books they had written, etc.. Wow! I was wrong!
      They were just more rehearsed.

      One's perspective and consciousness will change
      and expand, naturally, when they leave religion
      behind... Eckankar included.

      FYI-Some EK leaders are scammers and have
      full knowledge of their deceptions. Klemp uses
      generalities (dreams, etc.) to spread and "verify"
      his false teachings, but it all needs enhancement
      via the subjective imagination. Actually the false
      prophets of Eckankar, Klemp especially, gave
      themselves the power over us, and we bought
      into it. We trusted and were fooled!

      IMO-We are all equals (as Soul). This is one of
      the contradictions of Eckankar since initiations
      take away equality. Look at how Klemp, a 14th,
      is treated over 2nd, 6th, 7th or 8th initiates.
      After all, earth and everything here is no higher
      than the 4th Plane according to Eckankar. The
      (two) Holy Books of Eckankar, the Shariyats,
      are for the First Two Planes! And, Initiations
      correspond to the God Worlds or Planes of EK.
      What happened to Book 3 & 4 Harold?

      Actually, it's not necessary for Klemp to defend
      himself because he doesn't have to. What he says
      goes. He can make up anything and is believed.
      ECKists have no choice but to take the good crap
      with the bad crap, except, many will pick and choose
      what they want to follow... including his guidelines
      or RESAs.

      Prometheus




      Moby700 wrote:
      Prometheus, you say something in this post which
      I have been thinking about. I only spent 5 years
      in ekult before I found numerous reasons to leave.
      But I never considered the idea that HIs were not
      advancing in consciousness. I can see your point,
      though. It makes sense.

      You have known far more HIs than I will ever meet.
      Did you find this consistently? That HIs are actually
      lowering/limiting their consciousness?

      It is an interesting question.

      Moby...



      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > If someone told you that you appeared
      > in their dream and were mean to them
      > and wanted you to apologize would
      > you?
      >
      > Eckists will sometimes dream of Klemp
      > but he has no knowledge of them or of
      > the dream. He has to be told of the dream
      > in a snail mail letter. Then, he has to decide
      > if it was a positive dream in order to share
      > it in a talk, an ECK pub, or in another book.
      > If it was negative then he doesn't take credit
      > for it... that's the fault of the dreamer.
      >
      > Anyway, I thought this one-sided relationship
      > was worth looking at again. However, I'm
      > still puzzled as to why ECKists, who assume
      > they are so "spiritually" advanced, don't see
      > how someone else could use this same guise
      > to scam people. If someone else could use it
      > then why don't they think Klemp has? Maybe
      > they're tired of looking for a religion and Eckankar
      > at least talks about dreams and supports other
      > New Age and Alternative Medicine beliefs.
      >
      > What's both amusing and sad are two factors.
      > The longer one remains in Eckankar and the
      > higher in Initiations a person is (6-8) the less
      > advanced in consciousness they have become.
      > The delusion and the lie has become the truth.
      > True, they have become skilled speakers, promoters
      > and organizers but that's about it. And, yes,
      > the higher the rank the more they are admired.
      >
      > The other factor is even sadder. People have
      > dedicated their lives and vocations to Eckankar
      > and work at the ESC only to discover that it's
      > not what they originally thought it was or what
      > they thought they would become. They've become
      > lost in another meaningless religion. Sure they
      > have some ECK friends and they once believed
      > that they made a difference and helped to raise
      > world consciousness blah blah blah, instead, others
      > have become alienated from them as they become
      > walking talking ECK brochures. Pete and repeat!
      > It's no wonder they dream about that crap! But
      > those working at the ESC for all of those years
      > are trapped. What else do they have, where else
      > could they go? Just keep smiling and giving lip
      > service to higher consciousness. Just remember
      > one thing, if Klemp can fake it for all of those
      > years then you can too! Well, actually, Klemp has
      > an easier time at faking it since he's not around
      > people all day long.
      >
      > Prometheus
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