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5340Re: Indian Americans and the caste system - and EK

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  • prometheus_973
    Sep 8 11:01 AM
      Hello Jonathan and All,
      I agree that it's hard to get the real truth
      from any religionist... Eckankar included.
      Yes, the caste system was "outlawed" in
      India (for show) but it's functioning quite

      Eckankar's Caste System equates to: Level
      of Initiation.

      Let's face it, a lower initiate's opinion or
      even their "spiritual" experiences (especially
      those coming from 1st, 2nd or 3rd initiates)
      mean little to most Higher Initiates. These
      "experiences" may be worthy enough to
      place into an ECK pub for publicity purposes,
      but have no real value otherwise, except
      to other Lower Initiates (wannabes). In truth,
      these Lower Initiates are disrespected by
      H.I.s because their Initiation Level is a "Yardstick"
      of their level of inner experience and consciousness.

      Yes, some Lower Initiates may have good
      business and communication skills, but this
      is not the same as having a higher "spiritual"
      consciousness. On the other hand these Eckists
      who do have unique worldly skills are usually
      those who get initiated faster and higher.
      Thus, "professionals," in Eckankar, get promoted
      faster and higher than those who don't have
      the "credentials." This in and of itself shows
      a "caste consciousness." Professionals are
      "fast tracked" on Initiations, but almost all
      will hit the glass ceiling of the 7th Initiation.

      BTW- Klemp has stated, in the past, that some
      Lower Initiates are "higher" than some Higher
      Initiates. However, if this were true then why
      did these "Higher" Initiates get promoted in
      the first place and/or why have they kept their
      Higher Initiation rank?

      Plus, why weren't these "Lower" Initiates, with
      a H.I. level of consciousness as HK claimed,
      promoted to the 5th or 6th Initiation? I knew
      one or two and they were never promoted.
      Klemp's words are useless because the proof
      is in the pudding... so to speak. If someone
      coming into ECKankar really does have a level
      of spiritual consciousness equating to the 5th,
      6th, or 7th Plane then why aren't they promoted
      to at least the 5th? And, why aren't some H.I.s
      demoted if they don't demonstrate, via behaviour,
      a Higher "Spiritual" Consciousness?

      Well, it's obvious why it doesn't make sense.
      Klemp is a fraud! He has no idea of what is
      going on with anyone unless someone sends
      him an email, gives him or Joan a phone call,
      or he receives a snail-mail letter. Of course
      he does hear about it in person at times from
      Board members, or from RESAs when there's
      a big RESA meeting.

      However, much of this communication HK has
      (involving other ECKists) is merely hearsay and
      is not verified. The big point is, there's no "Inner"
      communication that takes place with Klemp (the
      LEM/Mahanta) and with his Higher Initiates. A
      few ECKists having an occasional dream, etc.
      with Klemp showing up doesn't really amount
      to having "inner communication." This is just
      another use of the mind's imagination giving
      a religious follower what they have expected
      and desired to experience. All religions use
      these "experiences"or miracles or whatever as
      "proof" that their religion is better than another
      or all others!

      I'm rather surprised that many ECKists have
      limited curiosity as to the beginnings of Eckankar
      and don't see the correlations with other religions
      like Sant Mat or with secret visitations and miracles.
      Apparently, most ECKistss threw their memories
      of this out with the bath water, and don't read
      anything outside of the EK teachings due to an
      innate fear of learning the Truth. Most people
      need to feel secure and special and this requires
      a personal "God" and Eckankar is no exception.


      Jonathan wrote:

      I'm not so sure speaking with a Hindu or Sikh is worthwhile either, but mostly
      because I'm not certain that they will tell me the truth.

      I knew a Brahmin lady from India. Over a year ago she told me that the caste
      system was gone in India. Somebody who knows her very well recently told me that
      her daughter was preparing to go to college. And this lady spent a tremendous
      amount of time researching all the colleges she was interested in to verify that
      there were a lot of Brahmins attending the school? I suspected that it had to do
      with meeting possible marriage partners, but this person told me that the mother
      (my acquaintance) wanted to make sure that there were enough Brahmin girls there
      so her daughter could have enough Brahmin girlfriends.

      So, in essence, this lady I knew told me the caste system was dead in India, but
      meanwhile, she is practicing it in the Unites States.

      It seems like I used to have a really high opinions of all Indians, but lately I
      have been coming to realize that they are just like everybody else, a few great
      ones, and a whole bunch of average ones, including many who have no problem with
      being hypocritical.

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