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5334Re: EK: Lust vs Discrimination; Path: Lust vs Chastity

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  • prometheus_973
    Sep 3, 2010
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      Hello Jonathan,
      I'm not sure if speaking to a Hindu and/or a Sikh
      would give clarification to your question. That's
      like asking a "Christian" a question about belief.
      What dogma does the Christian follow? There are
      so many beliefs and each individual interprets it
      differently.

      As I mentioned most "householders," or normal
      people, are expected to practice chastity when
      the woman can no longer produce offspring.
      Thus, there is no sex outside or inside of marriage
      beyond a certain stage of life. Having sex inside
      of marriage when the woman can no longer reproduce
      is seen as the same as having sex outside of the
      marriage... it's still lust and this is an attachment
      to worldly desires... and to a lower chakra (consciousness).

      BTW- I was in TM for six years before joining Eckankar
      and was a Siddha. Although not a Governor I volunteered
      as a "checker" and had duties somewhat to that of an ESA.
      I had to make sure people were meditating properly
      and were comfortable with their mantra. People were
      discouraged from writing them down and would at
      times forget them. It would be two or three syllables
      but the way the mantra was pronounced would naturally
      "change." Actually, the key word was "natural." Sometimes
      I would step out of the room and consult my "list" before
      going back in to help them remember their mantra.

      The kundalini was used to direct energy down
      through the chakras in order do the flying technique,
      and we were instructed not to have sex during the
      "program."

      The "flying technique" was supposed to cause levitation
      and was a physical side effect to Higher Consciousness.
      But, the only "effect" I ever saw was hopping. However,
      when one was sitting in a full lotus position and chanted
      the sutra (with the visualization) the energy channeled
      through the kundalini did produce an electrical charge.
      Of course there was a certain amount of expectation but
      we were simply being open to whatever. The result was
      like touching an electrical wire to a frog's leg and getting
      a muscle response. Therefore, the hopping (on thick high
      density foam mattresses) was effortless and could be
      done, easily, and with minimal exertion for 20 minutes.

      However, TM was a very expensive and distracting ruse
      and with more discipline than Eckankar requires.
      I'm kind of surprised that I took the bait with Eckankar
      after that. But, at least I did remain skeptical and this
      enabled me to be more open minded when Ford's book
      came out.

      Prometheus


      jonathan wrote


      Promethes,

      Thanks for the two additional messages clarifying things. It's an interesting
      subject.

      I'd really love to talk to a Hindu or Sikh from India and ask them exactly what
      these gurus mean by "lust" and "chastity." I am getting the intuitive impression
      that for them, "lust" is ANY sex outside marriage. In other words, people can
      only have sex during marriage, so any sex that takes place outside marriage
      obviously results from the fact that they can't control their sex drive. And so
      they automatically call this "lust."

      I was in TM (Transcendental Meditation) for about two years before joining
      Eckankar. I read Maharishi's little paperback book. He spent a LOT of time
      talking about how important it is to "sublimate the sex drive and direct it
      toward something else." So sublimating the sex drive, or controlling it, is
      extremely important in Hinduism.

      Somebody told me that married Hindus are expected to stop having sex after they
      stop having children. I had a Chinese girlfriend who was born in Taiwan, but
      mostly raised in the USA. She once told me that her parents had intercourse only
      two times. Incredulous, I asked "How do you know that?" She replied "Once for
      me, and once for my sister." The point is that I am getting the impression that
      Hindus almost seem to believe that sex is only for procreation.

      I think all of this may be important to figuring out where Kirpal Singh was
      "coming from" when he was discussing lust and chastity.

      But you are right in your analysis of Twitchell. His version is not at all the
      same as Kirpal's version. I think you did a good job documenting what Twitchell
      did.

      Jonathan
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