5334Re: EK: Lust vs Discrimination; Path: Lust vs Chastity
- Sep 3, 2010Hello Jonathan,
I'm not sure if speaking to a Hindu and/or a Sikh
would give clarification to your question. That's
like asking a "Christian" a question about belief.
What dogma does the Christian follow? There are
so many beliefs and each individual interprets it
As I mentioned most "householders," or normal
people, are expected to practice chastity when
the woman can no longer produce offspring.
Thus, there is no sex outside or inside of marriage
beyond a certain stage of life. Having sex inside
of marriage when the woman can no longer reproduce
is seen as the same as having sex outside of the
marriage... it's still lust and this is an attachment
to worldly desires... and to a lower chakra (consciousness).
BTW- I was in TM for six years before joining Eckankar
and was a Siddha. Although not a Governor I volunteered
as a "checker" and had duties somewhat to that of an ESA.
I had to make sure people were meditating properly
and were comfortable with their mantra. People were
discouraged from writing them down and would at
times forget them. It would be two or three syllables
but the way the mantra was pronounced would naturally
"change." Actually, the key word was "natural." Sometimes
I would step out of the room and consult my "list" before
going back in to help them remember their mantra.
The kundalini was used to direct energy down
through the chakras in order do the flying technique,
and we were instructed not to have sex during the
The "flying technique" was supposed to cause levitation
and was a physical side effect to Higher Consciousness.
But, the only "effect" I ever saw was hopping. However,
when one was sitting in a full lotus position and chanted
the sutra (with the visualization) the energy channeled
through the kundalini did produce an electrical charge.
Of course there was a certain amount of expectation but
we were simply being open to whatever. The result was
like touching an electrical wire to a frog's leg and getting
a muscle response. Therefore, the hopping (on thick high
density foam mattresses) was effortless and could be
done, easily, and with minimal exertion for 20 minutes.
However, TM was a very expensive and distracting ruse
and with more discipline than Eckankar requires.
I'm kind of surprised that I took the bait with Eckankar
after that. But, at least I did remain skeptical and this
enabled me to be more open minded when Ford's book
Thanks for the two additional messages clarifying things. It's an interesting
I'd really love to talk to a Hindu or Sikh from India and ask them exactly what
these gurus mean by "lust" and "chastity." I am getting the intuitive impression
that for them, "lust" is ANY sex outside marriage. In other words, people can
only have sex during marriage, so any sex that takes place outside marriage
obviously results from the fact that they can't control their sex drive. And so
they automatically call this "lust."
I was in TM (Transcendental Meditation) for about two years before joining
Eckankar. I read Maharishi's little paperback book. He spent a LOT of time
talking about how important it is to "sublimate the sex drive and direct it
toward something else." So sublimating the sex drive, or controlling it, is
extremely important in Hinduism.
Somebody told me that married Hindus are expected to stop having sex after they
stop having children. I had a Chinese girlfriend who was born in Taiwan, but
mostly raised in the USA. She once told me that her parents had intercourse only
two times. Incredulous, I asked "How do you know that?" She replied "Once for
me, and once for my sister." The point is that I am getting the impression that
Hindus almost seem to believe that sex is only for procreation.
I think all of this may be important to figuring out where Kirpal Singh was
"coming from" when he was discussing lust and chastity.
But you are right in your analysis of Twitchell. His version is not at all the
same as Kirpal's version. I think you did a good job documenting what Twitchell
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