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5333Re: EK: Lust vs Discrimination; Path: Lust vs Chastity

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Sep 2, 2010
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      Promethes,

      Thanks for the two additional messages clarifying things. It's an interesting subject.

      I'd really love to talk to a Hindu or Sikh from India and ask them exactly what these gurus mean by "lust" and "chastity." I am getting the intuitive impression that for them, "lust" is ANY sex outside marriage. In other words, people can only have sex during marriage, so any sex that takes place outside marriage obviously results from the fact that they can't control their sex drive. And so they automatically call this "lust."

      I was in TM (Transcendental Meditation) for about two years before joining Eckankar. I read Maharishi's little paperback book. He spent a LOT of time talking about how important it is to "sublimate the sex drive and direct it toward something else." So sublimating the sex drive, or controlling it, is extremely important in Hinduism.

      Somebody told me that married Hindus are expected to stop having sex after they stop having children. I had a Chinese girlfriend who was born in Taiwan, but mostly raised in the USA. She once told me that her parents had intercourse only two times. Incredulous, I asked "How do you know that?" She replied "Once for me, and once for my sister." The point is that I am getting the impression that Hindus almost seem to believe that sex is only for procreation.

      I think all of this may be important to figuring out where Kirpal Singh was "coming from" when he was discussing lust and chastity.

      But you are right in your analysis of Twitchell. His version is not at all the same as Kirpal's version. I think you did a good job documenting what Twitchell did.

      Jonathan



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Jonathan,
      > Yes, Paul used and altered the Passions/Virtues
      > chart in "The Path of the Masters."
      >
      > As a recap here are both versions to compare:
      >
      > From Chapter 6 "The Path of the Masters"
      >
      > "Passions and their Remedies
      > KAM (Lust).................Shil..................Chastity, continence
      > KRODH (Anger)..........Kshama............Forgiveness, tolerance
      > LOBH (Greed).............Santosha..........Contentment
      > MOH (Attachment).....Viveka/Vairag...Discrimination/Detachment
      > AHANKAR (Ego;Pride)..Dinta...............Humility"
      >
      >
      > Passions of Mind and Virtues from HK's 1st ECK Lexicon (pg. 73):
      >
      > KAMA (Lust)................Viveka...............Right Discrimination (pg. 225)
      > KRODHA (Anger).........Kshama.............Forgiveness
      > LOBHA (Greed).........Santosha/Shanti...Peace/Contentment
      > MOHA (Attachment).....Vairag...............Detachment
      > AHANKARA (Vanity)......Dinta................Humility
      >
      > Anyway, these Passions and Virtues are not matched
      > up in HK's 1st Lexicon so that people can't readily
      > see the differences, but one can compare the two
      > lists and see where Twit made some "creative" changes
      > (like adding an "a" to some of these names).
      >
      > And, one can see that Twitchell moved some words
      > around to do his own mix and match. Look at MOH.
      > PT omitted Chastity and moved "Viveka" (Discrimination)
      > up to cover the virtue (opposite) for Lust.
      >
      > BTW- I think that in my prior post I confused the EK
      > Virtue, or remedy, for Lust. I was thinking that it was
      > Contentment but it's Discrimination. See how easy it
      > is to confuse these things when the proper designation
      > or term is not used.
      >
      > ["Sant Mat"............................."ECKankar"
      > Lust - Chastity.....versus....Lust - Discrimination].
      >
      > It does seem to me that the remedy for Lust
      > could be Contentment versus Chastity or
      > Discrimination. Actually, Contentment could
      > be the remedy for many of these Passions of
      > the Mind.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Jonathan wrote:
      > Prometheus,
      >
      > I have a hard time keeping track of all this stuff. I may have gotten confused.
      > It now seems to me that you were saying that Paul left "chastity" off of some
      > "virtues list" that he had.
      >
      > When I looked back to our February, 2009 discussion I thought you mentioned that
      > chastity was associated with lust in some of the original versions of the five
      > passions lists in India.
      >
      > So I need a clarification on that.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
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