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5303Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: A Look At the Next 2010 ECK Worldwide Seminar

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  • Peter Anton
    Jul 28, 2010
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      Thanks for the elaboration, Pro, but I was hoping for some feedback from someone other than you.  No offense, but the opinion of one I've already heard from does not help me.  I will wait and see if someone else speaks up to see if there will be any useful dialog to keep me here.  I'd normally present some thoughts as seeds for discussion, but I'm still uncertain that it would amount to anymore than fuel for controversy, debate and rants.  Perhaps the Eckist members here are simply keeping an eye on detractor groups and that is partly the reason I dropped in.  I don't have any time for argument about opinions or facts? that people have about the Eckankar movement and organization.  Those are things that only I can and must determine for myself.  If criticism is all this group is all about then I won't be here long.  For now, I will wait until and if I get some other perspectives. 

      Peter

      prometheus_973 wrote:
       

      Hello Peter,
      Please don't hold the group
      to what I wrote in the introduction.
      I would like to address what you
      have written.

      Peter wrote:

      This may be my only post to this
      group before I leave it. We'll see.

      Although Eckankar has been my
      preferred spiritual viewpoint for
      30 years, I have climbed onto the
      fence to look around due to a lack
      of personal experience or direct
      evidence to support claims, or
      should I say simply, the lore which
      surrounds the teachings of Eckankar.

      ME: It does seem as though you've
      been on the fence for some time now.
      I will admit that I was unhappy with
      many things on the business side of
      the org and this always carried over
      to the "spiritual" side. And, there was
      a lot of bait and switch that people
      just gradually accepted and had to
      accept to climb higher after years
      and years. I too was/am a skeptic
      and it took me many years to surrender
      to the mahanta. I'm just glad that
      I was able to retain my sanity.

      P: So I joined this group [ESA] to
      entertain my skeptical side, having
      had a tendency to be a bit too "faithful"
      about things I have yet to gain real
      knowledge of.

      ME: I've always been the skeptic
      and wasn't much of a joiner. I always
      had trouble fully accepting/believing
      the hype. And, I never liked the
      emotional approaches some groups
      took.

      P: Personal experience is, in my mind,
      the only thing that proves anything
      conclusively and then only for the
      person in question. I have no way
      of knowing the reality of other people's
      experience and so I work to have
      respect for the viewpoints of others
      and try to find common areas of
      understanding by offering my
      perspective and learning from the
      (hopefully honest and true) experiences
      of others.

      ME: Yes! Others can help us to get to
      a certain point. But, everything involving
      God or Spirit or Whatever requires subjective
      (personal) experiences in both the outer
      and inner realities of our lives. However,
      one needs to be objective and free of
      religious opinions in order to find Truth.
      Unfortunately, religions (Eckankar) requires
      one to become attached to the opinions
      of the leader (and those "higher" than
      yourself), dogma, laws, rules, guidelines,
      belief, faith, hope, promises, scripture,
      tradition, objects (buildings), ceremonies,
      initiation rank, etc.


      P: So... I am curious whether this group
      holds to its statement:

      "We, also, cover the concerns and
      critical thinking involving the consciousness
      and workings of ALL societies, religions,
      and governments and the world as
      a whole.

      Let's share our opinions, new insights
      & perspectives of NOT ONLY Eckankar,
      but of other religions, organizations,
      governments and their leaders too.
      Be respectful to your fellow site members."

      ME: I can't speak for the group. I wrote
      that long ago and I do sometimes approach
      other topics such as: All Religions Are Scams!
      Basically I wrote that because I thought people
      could tie-in other subjects to the main focus
      which is the Scam of Eckankar which Twitchell
      created and Klemp and Company inherited.

      P: Or... if it is ONLY a negative, reactionary
      and closed-minded forum for disgruntled
      ex-members of Eckankar as also expressed
      in the description and mainly by Prometheus_
      973 in the discussion. If so, I have plenty
      of other better ways to spend my time.

      ME: Actually some members are Not ex-ECKists.
      They are current card carrying ECKists. Some
      just don't post... they Read only, but want the
      member benefits of email notification and
      access to the Files. BTW- We aren't here to
      have a discussion on whether Eckankar or
      Klemp is being truthful or is a valid religion.

      After all, Klemp cannot actually communicate
      with his chelas on the "inner" (as he claims
      with his Mahanta powers) or else he would
      not need to have a computer generated
      initiation list sent to RESAs for their recommendation/
      approval.

      And, why the monthly IROs if there
      is "Inner communication" with the
      All Knowing Master?

      Why aren't there "inner" Seminars, or
      "inner Satsang classes" scheduled for
      local areas? The same goes for "inner
      Book discussions." Where's the proof
      in the pudding for all the claims?

      It's all talk and promises and imagination!
      Sure, some people will see Rebazar or
      other guys before even seeing their pic.
      But, this happens in other religions too
      with seeing Jesus or Buddha or Krishna
      or Kirpal Singh (Paul's real Master), etc.
      etc. And, their stories and miracles are
      better than the ones Eckists have! Why
      is that (Google miracles)? Shouldn't a
      card carrying Eckist have even greater
      miracles and events happen to them
      since they are closer/higher to God?
      One would think so, but No!

      And, of course, the Truth will be
      a "negative" and hurtful view of Eckankar
      as seen by brain-washed ECKists.
      I would have seen it the same way
      at one time and become angry. You
      have to buy into it all for it to "work"
      mentally/spiritually. When a person
      (Eckist) has put in that much time and
      money and effort to make rank. You
      (self/ego) is going to defend your choices
      even though there are things and people
      in the ESC org/church or Satsang Society
      that you don't like or want to work with
      or for.

      The Klemp's getting angry with that Third
      Fill-in Postal Clerk in the 9/200(?) H.I.
      Letter showed that something was still wrong.
      [It's listed in the Files].

      Plus there's the EMR/EMF thing that started
      around 1991 and still bothers Klemp.

      How about the Polarians and Adom and Ede
      and the Garden of Eden Myth? This is printed
      in the Shariyat!

      How about what is written in the Shariyat 1
      about the Virgin Birth of the Mahanta when
      Klemp is the 2nd son? How can HK be the
      Mahanta? Is ECK Scripture wrong? Is it
      negative to mention this?

      There's more of course, but let's face it
      an ECKist cannot ask questions after
      the 2nd initiation due to maintaining the
      Law of Silence (one must go to the inner).
      This is a control tactic of religion. One
      must learn to Surrender, and Service will
      keep you too busy to think critically or
      to ask difficult questions. If questions
      are asked the H.I. grapevine will notify
      the RESA Police and this will cause some
      Eckists to be Black Listed on Initiations
      for at least three-five years or until
      another RESA is chosen.

      Maybe you should find something else
      to occupy your time. Live life! Let go
      and let God!

      Personally, I felt a huge weight (stress)
      lifted from my shoulders when I finally
      made the decision to quit Eckankar.
      It was a wonderful and a spiritual
      experience! But, it was very difficult not
      looking to or asking the mahanta for help.

      I finally looked to my Self and to Spirit.
      This is how I became religion free and
      Spiritually Free. I am my own master
      and I have my own personal religion...
      as it should be.

      But, others need experts and holy men
      to look up to because it helps them to
      believe. Of course, that's what causes the
      problems for everyone else. BTW- The
      social connections can be made outside
      of church and I didn't want to hang out
      with too many Eckists anyway.

      Or, go to the 2010 EWWS and celebrate the
      "Year of the ECK Teacher" again. I hear there
      will be another "Acres of Diamonds Meeting"
      and an ECK "Arahata Skills Workshop" again.
      Oh, and I hear that there will be an "ECK-Vidya
      Workshop" even though Eckankar (Klemp)
      no longer sells PT's ECK-Vidya book. And,
      there's that revisit to the Temple and walking
      the Contemplation Trails (again).

      P: Awaiting any new and enlightening information,
      Peter

      ME: The info has been given. But, one needs
      the ears to hear it and the eyes to see it. You,
      still, might not be ready to go it alone with
      Soul and with Spirit but that's okay... you're
      not alone.

      Prometheus

      prometheus_973 wrote:

      It's the "Year of the Teacher" again.
      However, words have two meanings.
      In Eckankar "Teacher," also, refers to
      or means Arahata and this refers to
      or means a 2nd Initiate. Aren't ECKists
      going backwards? Isn't revisiting the
      past each year considered as "Spiritual
      Devolution versus Evolution?"

      Klemp and Company are substituting
      talk (sharing and stories), social interaction,
      feelings from the 4th "Heart" chakra,
      Temple tours, retraining classes, HU
      chants (with focus on the 6th Chakra)
      and entertainment for Spirituality. It's
      a Physical, Astral, Causal, and Mental
      exercise, especially, when one projects
      expectations via the mind's imagination.
      BTW-All Chakras (even the highest Crown
      Chakra which ECKankar doesn't use)
      are seen by them as being Astral Plane.

      So, after 29 years with Klemp in charge
      ECKists are encouraged to make an
      expensive pilgrimage (during a recession)
      to visit the EK Temple and to see and
      hear the Klempster in person. This
      is odd (or is it? $$$) because one would
      think that "the most advanced spiritual
      path" on the planet would encourage
      "INNER" visitations, meetings, satsangs,
      and Worldwide Seminars!

      Why aren't there "Inner" ECK Worldwide
      Seminars? Aren't ECKists advanced
      enough after all of this time? At least
      have an Inner Worldwide for Higher Initiates...
      right?!

      Aren't ECKists encouraged to visit the
      Physical Plane ECK Temple in Chanhassen
      on the "Inner Plane" as well as other
      Physical Plane and Inner Plane Temples?
      Sure!

      So, why is it necessary to travel to
      Minnesota to see and hear Klemp or
      to visit the EK Temple there? Do ECKists
      need the retraining, or do they need
      to reinforce their delusional beliefs that
      Eckankar and Klemp are so much more
      "advanced" than other religions and
      other religious leaders?

      ECKists need to remember one thing:
      Keep smiling... it looks good and fools
      people!

      Prometheus

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