5303Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: A Look At the Next 2010 ECK Worldwide Seminar
- Jul 28, 2010
Thanks for the elaboration, Pro, but I was hoping for some feedback from someone other than you. No offense, but the opinion of one I've already heard from does not help me. I will wait and see if someone else speaks up to see if there will be any useful dialog to keep me here. I'd normally present some thoughts as seeds for discussion, but I'm still uncertain that it would amount to anymore than fuel for controversy, debate and rants. Perhaps the Eckist members here are simply keeping an eye on detractor groups and that is partly the reason I dropped in. I don't have any time for argument about opinions or facts? that people have about the Eckankar movement and organization. Those are things that only I can and must determine for myself. If criticism is all this group is all about then I won't be here long. For now, I will wait until and if I get some other perspectives.
Please don't hold the group
to what I wrote in the introduction.
I would like to address what you
This may be my only post to this
group before I leave it. We'll see.
Although Eckankar has been my
preferred spiritual viewpoint for
30 years, I have climbed onto the
fence to look around due to a lack
of personal experience or direct
evidence to support claims, or
should I say simply, the lore which
surrounds the teachings of Eckankar.
ME: It does seem as though you've
been on the fence for some time now.
I will admit that I was unhappy with
many things on the business side of
the org and this always carried over
to the "spiritual" side. And, there was
a lot of bait and switch that people
just gradually accepted and had to
accept to climb higher after years
and years. I too was/am a skeptic
and it took me many years to surrender
to the mahanta. I'm just glad that
I was able to retain my sanity.
P: So I joined this group [ESA] to
entertain my skeptical side, having
had a tendency to be a bit too "faithful"
about things I have yet to gain real
ME: I've always been the skeptic
and wasn't much of a joiner. I always
had trouble fully accepting/believing
the hype. And, I never liked the
emotional approaches some groups
P: Personal experience is, in my mind,
the only thing that proves anything
conclusively and then only for the
person in question. I have no way
of knowing the reality of other people's
experience and so I work to have
respect for the viewpoints of others
and try to find common areas of
understanding by offering my
perspective and learning from the
(hopefully honest and true) experiences
ME: Yes! Others can help us to get to
a certain point. But, everything involving
God or Spirit or Whatever requires subjective
(personal) experiences in both the outer
and inner realities of our lives. However,
one needs to be objective and free of
religious opinions in order to find Truth.
Unfortunately, religions (Eckankar) requires
one to become attached to the opinions
of the leader (and those "higher" than
yourself), dogma, laws, rules, guidelines,
belief, faith, hope, promises, scripture,
tradition, objects (buildings), ceremonies,
initiation rank, etc.
P: So... I am curious whether this group
holds to its statement:
"We, also, cover the concerns and
critical thinking involving the consciousness
and workings of ALL societies, religions,
and governments and the world as
Let's share our opinions, new insights
& perspectives of NOT ONLY Eckankar,
but of other religions, organizations,
governments and their leaders too.
Be respectful to your fellow site members."
ME: I can't speak for the group. I wrote
that long ago and I do sometimes approach
other topics such as: All Religions Are Scams!
Basically I wrote that because I thought people
could tie-in other subjects to the main focus
which is the Scam of Eckankar which Twitchell
created and Klemp and Company inherited.
P: Or... if it is ONLY a negative, reactionary
and closed-minded forum for disgruntled
ex-members of Eckankar as also expressed
in the description and mainly by Prometheus_
973 in the discussion. If so, I have plenty
of other better ways to spend my time.
ME: Actually some members are Not ex-ECKists.
They are current card carrying ECKists. Some
just don't post... they Read only, but want the
member benefits of email notification and
access to the Files. BTW- We aren't here to
have a discussion on whether Eckankar or
Klemp is being truthful or is a valid religion.
After all, Klemp cannot actually communicate
with his chelas on the "inner" (as he claims
with his Mahanta powers) or else he would
not need to have a computer generated
initiation list sent to RESAs for their recommendation/
And, why the monthly IROs if there
is "Inner communication" with the
All Knowing Master?
Why aren't there "inner" Seminars, or
"inner Satsang classes" scheduled for
local areas? The same goes for "inner
Book discussions." Where's the proof
in the pudding for all the claims?
It's all talk and promises and imagination!
Sure, some people will see Rebazar or
other guys before even seeing their pic.
But, this happens in other religions too
with seeing Jesus or Buddha or Krishna
or Kirpal Singh (Paul's real Master), etc.
etc. And, their stories and miracles are
better than the ones Eckists have! Why
is that (Google miracles)? Shouldn't a
card carrying Eckist have even greater
miracles and events happen to them
since they are closer/higher to God?
One would think so, but No!
And, of course, the Truth will be
a "negative" and hurtful view of Eckankar
as seen by brain-washed ECKists.
I would have seen it the same way
at one time and become angry. You
have to buy into it all for it to "work"
mentally/spiritually. When a person
(Eckist) has put in that much time and
money and effort to make rank. You
(self/ego) is going to defend your choices
even though there are things and people
in the ESC org/church or Satsang Society
that you don't like or want to work with
The Klemp's getting angry with that Third
Fill-in Postal Clerk in the 9/200(?) H.I.
Letter showed that something was still wrong.
[It's listed in the Files].
Plus there's the EMR/EMF thing that started
around 1991 and still bothers Klemp.
How about the Polarians and Adom and Ede
and the Garden of Eden Myth? This is printed
in the Shariyat!
How about what is written in the Shariyat 1
about the Virgin Birth of the Mahanta when
Klemp is the 2nd son? How can HK be the
Mahanta? Is ECK Scripture wrong? Is it
negative to mention this?
There's more of course, but let's face it
an ECKist cannot ask questions after
the 2nd initiation due to maintaining the
Law of Silence (one must go to the inner).
This is a control tactic of religion. One
must learn to Surrender, and Service will
keep you too busy to think critically or
to ask difficult questions. If questions
are asked the H.I. grapevine will notify
the RESA Police and this will cause some
Eckists to be Black Listed on Initiations
for at least three-five years or until
another RESA is chosen.
Maybe you should find something else
to occupy your time. Live life! Let go
and let God!
Personally, I felt a huge weight (stress)
lifted from my shoulders when I finally
made the decision to quit Eckankar.
It was a wonderful and a spiritual
experience! But, it was very difficult not
looking to or asking the mahanta for help.
I finally looked to my Self and to Spirit.
This is how I became religion free and
Spiritually Free. I am my own master
and I have my own personal religion...
as it should be.
But, others need experts and holy men
to look up to because it helps them to
believe. Of course, that's what causes the
problems for everyone else. BTW- The
social connections can be made outside
of church and I didn't want to hang out
with too many Eckists anyway.
Or, go to the 2010 EWWS and celebrate the
"Year of the ECK Teacher" again. I hear there
will be another "Acres of Diamonds Meeting"
and an ECK "Arahata Skills Workshop" again.
Oh, and I hear that there will be an "ECK-Vidya
Workshop" even though Eckankar (Klemp)
no longer sells PT's ECK-Vidya book. And,
there's that revisit to the Temple and walking
the Contemplation Trails (again).
P: Awaiting any new and enlightening information,
ME: The info has been given. But, one needs
the ears to hear it and the eyes to see it. You,
still, might not be ready to go it alone with
Soul and with Spirit but that's okay... you're
It's the "Year of the Teacher" again.
However, words have two meanings.
In Eckankar "Teacher," also, refers to
or means Arahata and this refers to
or means a 2nd Initiate. Aren't ECKists
going backwards? Isn't revisiting the
past each year considered as "Spiritual
Devolution versus Evolution?"
Klemp and Company are substituting
talk (sharing and stories), social interaction,
feelings from the 4th "Heart" chakra,
Temple tours, retraining classes, HU
chants (with focus on the 6th Chakra)
and entertainment for Spirituality. It's
a Physical, Astral, Causal, and Mental
exercise, especially, when one projects
expectations via the mind's imagination.
BTW-All Chakras (even the highest Crown
Chakra which ECKankar doesn't use)
are seen by them as being Astral Plane.
So, after 29 years with Klemp in charge
ECKists are encouraged to make an
expensive pilgrimage (during a recession)
to visit the EK Temple and to see and
hear the Klempster in person. This
is odd (or is it? $$$) because one would
think that "the most advanced spiritual
path" on the planet would encourage
"INNER" visitations, meetings, satsangs,
and Worldwide Seminars!
Why aren't there "Inner" ECK Worldwide
Seminars? Aren't ECKists advanced
enough after all of this time? At least
have an Inner Worldwide for Higher Initiates...
Aren't ECKists encouraged to visit the
Physical Plane ECK Temple in Chanhassen
on the "Inner Plane" as well as other
Physical Plane and Inner Plane Temples?
So, why is it necessary to travel to
Minnesota to see and hear Klemp or
to visit the EK Temple there? Do ECKists
need the retraining, or do they need
to reinforce their delusional beliefs that
Eckankar and Klemp are so much more
"advanced" than other religions and
other religious leaders?
ECKists need to remember one thing:
Keep smiling... it looks good and fools
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