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5252Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

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  • ctecvie
    Mar 5 2:11 AM
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      Hi Prometheus,

      yes the "feel good" factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn't it just great to feel like the ones who will be "saved" because they belong to the "right" group of people and to just know it all? It's really so good to look down on the poor devils who haven't figured it out for themselves ... :-D

      And the karma thingie in eckankar is the same thing as the original sin of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened their eyes, they could see that very easily! LOL!

      Ingrid

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Ingrid and All,
      > Yes, all religions take our money
      > in one way or another. All of us pay
      > for their Holy Wars that they wage
      > upon the rest of us. Their members
      > also pay for future promises and to
      > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
      > while looking down their noses at
      > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
      > interesting that so many of them
      > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
      > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
      > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
      > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
      > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > ctecvie wrote:
      >
      > Hi Prometheus and all,
      >
      > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
      > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
      > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
      > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
      > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
      > money!
      >
      > Ingrid
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
      > >
      > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
      > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
      > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
      > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
      > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
      > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
      > >
      > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
      > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
      > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
      > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
      > >
      > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
      > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
      > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
      > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
      > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
      > > eckankar.org
      > >
      > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
      > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
      > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
      > > lied as to how many times he traveled
      > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
      > > Twit ever travelled to India!
      > >
      > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
      > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
      > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
      > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
      > >
      > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
      > > conned people and that Klemp is still
      > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
      > > But, should anyone be surprised when
      > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
      > > gullible and loving people? Most people
      > > want to believe and they want to believe
      > > the best in whatever or whomever.
      > > Everyone has to figure out what category
      > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
      > > are manmade just as religions are.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > Hello Etznab and All,
      > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      > > Living ECK Master" are historical
      > > transcriptions from private tapings
      > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
      > >
      > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
      > > made private tapings of his struggles
      > > before and after his acceptance
      > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
      > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
      > > who presented these tapes to Sri
      > > Darwin.)"
      > >
      > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
      > > Twitchell tells his story of being
      > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
      > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
      > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
      > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
      > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
      > > lie! Marman states that this was
      > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
      > > as Paul would have us to believe.
      > >
      > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
      > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
      > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
      > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
      > > his "grand achievements" to get
      > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
      > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
      > > (France) nor to India at age 15
      > > in 1923!
      > >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Twit states:
      > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
      > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
      > > six to seven months being taught
      > > and learning the works of ECK...
      > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
      > >
      > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
      > > the "Mahanta" once during these
      > > months!
      > >
      > > PT: "I had already been initiated
      > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
      > > the same as everybody else, the
      > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
      > >
      > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
      > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
      > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
      > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
      > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
      > > 1955-65. They even have the same
      > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
      > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
      > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
      > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
      > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
      > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
      > >
      > > ***
      > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
      > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
      > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
      > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
      > > Page.
      > >
      > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
      > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
      > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
      > > how PT's birthday corresponds
      > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
      > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
      > > ***
      > >
      > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
      > > Fourth, I went up through About
      > > the Seventh at this particular time
      > > (pg. 71)."
      > >
      > > ME: How does one go up to
      > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
      > > Wouldn't a person remember
      > > what initiation it was if it were
      > > true? This is just more proof
      > > that Twit was lying once again!
      > >
      > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
      > > on this trip, I followed him up
      > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
      > > and I got the finish (12th) of
      > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
      > >
      > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
      > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
      > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
      > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
      > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
      > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
      > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
      > > Jan. 1, 1969.
      > >
      > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
      > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
      > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
      > > right? I just can't figure out what it
      > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > etznab wrote:
      > >
      > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
      > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
      > >
      > > There were other early books that didn't mention
      > > it either, if I remember correctly.
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Etznab and All,
      > > I started another thread for this discussion.
      > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      > > delude its followers.
      > >
      > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
      > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      > > Four More Years that this information (if we
      > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      > > gap, 1965-1969?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > Hello Etznab,
      > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      > > Twitchell claims to have received the
      > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      > > have trouble remembering the details
      > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
      > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      > > created or started the "outer church"
      > > on this date. This way he'd remember
      > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      > > history, on this date... his birthday!
      > >
      > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      > > of God.
      > >
      > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      > > a past track record of lying has been verified
      > > by Klemp.
      > >
      > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
      > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
      > >
      > > If one has paid attention they will see that
      > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
      > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      > > as well. Just look at the differences and
      > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > etznab wrote:
      > >
      > > hat was interesting what you said about
      > > "Mahanta".
      > >
      > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
      > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
      > >
      > > Was that the date?
      > >
      > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
      > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      > > for books after that date.
      > >
      > > The Flute of God came out in installments
      > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
      > >
      > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      > > various other forms of "Master".
      > >
      > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
      > >
      > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      > > The Flute of God).
      > >
      > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
      > >
      > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
      > >
      > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
      > >
      > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
      > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
      > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
      > >
      > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
      > > "Mahanta" topic.
      > >
      > > Etznab
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
      > >
      > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
      > >
      > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      > > true."
      > >
      > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      > > "The Wisdom Notes."
      > >
      > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
      > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
      > > believe in some universal force whether called
      > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
      > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
      > > action" of his followers."
      > >
      > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
      > >
      > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
      > >
      > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
      > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      > > title and definition.
      > >
      > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      > > straight!
      > >
      > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      > > 970th LEM, was from.
      > >
      > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      > > wanted to present more details than what
      > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
      > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      > > and distortions.
      > >
      > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
      > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
      > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
      > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
      > >
      > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      > > will deny this, but they share the same
      > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
      > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      > > where ECKists have made fun of the
      > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      > > would seem that they are laughing
      > > at themselves and don't realize it!
      > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
      > > to do critical thinking and Not being
      > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      > > still ECKists.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      >
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