5165Re: 3rd initiation to 5th initiation (not me) in 1980-1983 time frame
- Feb 1, 2010Hello Ingrid and All,
Yes, I know Bettine Clemen (Ware) too.
I didn't know that about ECKists getting
several initiations in one day. Was that
during Paul's reign, or Darwin's or both?
I know that Klemp would never do that...
he's too stingy! And, HK's RESA hierarchy
can't deal with higher ranking H.I.s
residing within their Satsangs. Although,
Bob Lawton (Klemp's former body guard)
is both an 8th and a RESA. That's the only
exception, but it does set a precedent.
IMO- The Glass Ceiling for 7ths is unjustified.
Why isn't there a more proportionate number
of 8ths to 7ths?
And, since there ARE a few ECK 9th Initiates
lurking around why wouldn't that initiation
be the actual Glass Ceiling, thus, allowing
at least 500 8th Initiates.
Actually, why does Klemp have these Glass
Ceilings? It's because he's a narcissist and
doen't want to share. He's a two faced
hypocrite! He talks about love and compassion,
but Not forgiveness! Thus, he has never
mentioned Darwin's (972nd LEM) death
to the ECK Membership let alone say
something nice about the former ECK
Master. That was the "test" that Klemp
failed. And when he fails a test like that
it means that he, too, has fallen from Grace!
His attachment to Power keeps him on the
Anyway, If Klemp wanted to he could have
promoted two or three initiates to the 12th.
Not all 12ths have to be LEMs and not all LEMs
have to be Mahantas... right? Sure!
And, to insure that these 12ths wouldn't
threaten his reign HK could have made them
all females. In ECKankar females can't become
LEM/Mahantas due to law/science/tradition
or whatever. Klemp is just an old tired ass
selfish, mean spirited and fearful fuddy duddy
stuck in the past.
Klemp's negative behaviour and lack of
compassion towards Darwin, and especially
his death, is proof that he is both a hypocrite
and a fraud. But, this is human/KAL behaviour
typical of all religions and their leaders.
Unfortunately, ECKists (the most advanced
Souls ever, LOL) have tunnel vision and blinders
on. They can only focus upon that carrot (the
promise of more initiations leading to God-
Realization) as they trot along doing Service,
Surrendering, HUing, spending money on EK
materials and seminars, taking more training,
following the Guidelines and acting "as if" the
lies of PT and HK are the ultimate truth. Such
is religious belief. It may feel good and give
you some hope, peace of mind and security,
but it's not Reality or Truth! It's just filler...
like Klemp's simple-minded redundant books!
In truth, all religions and their dogmas are
"tests" for the more "advanced" Souls. When
one is able to finally see the correlations and
the lies and beyond the "group think" then
one is able to see with more clarity and discard
all religion. The veils of illusion slowly disappear
until one can commune privately, one-to-one,
with Divine Spirit.
Soul doesn't need a LEM or Mahanta or
a Master or a priest, or a Pope to intervene
or guide them on the Outer or Inner Planes.
Of course, all religions (including Eckankar)
cannot tolerate such statements. This is
heresy! People are executed, even today,
by religionists who claim to love God.
But, why does God need to be protected?
Thus, those religionists who attack us,
and the Truth, are ignorant, fearful,
weak-minded followers, and are immature
Hi Jonathan and all,
my husband knew Bettine Clemen personally.
She once told him that either she or some people
she knew (I'm not sure) got the 3rd, 4th and 5th
initiations in one day - one or two in the morning
and the last one(s) in the afternoon!
At the time they needed a lot of higher initiates
as eckankar was still young. Now there are so
many HIs that they had to introduce a glass ceiling -
I guess that's why initiations are slowed down
It's all about administration and money, and power
of course ... :-))
>time frame to the discussion.
> I'm going to add a few "facts" from my personal experience in the 1980-1983
>Gross promoted 1000 Eckists to the 5th!" And then you followed it up with
> In your post just before the one I am responding to, you stated that "[Darwin]
"Ooops! I think that was 500 (not 1000) to the 5th, and around 1983 just before
being kicked out by Klemp!"
>Gross' time as the LEM. I believe it was around 1980/1981 that a member of
> I joined Eckanakar around 1979 so I got in on the last few years of Darwin
Eckankar, B.S., told me that he was promoted directly from 3rd initiate to 5th
initiate. In other words, he skipped his 4th initiation. This may have occurred
later, in the 1983 time frame, I really can't be certain, but this "3 to 5
initiation" was definitely done by Darwin.
>interesting thing is that I believe that both of these people had been in
> Also, I heard about one other person who went from 3rd to 5th. The really
Eckankar for less than 10 years. Eckankar started in 1965, so 15-18 years was
the absolute maximum time the person who spoke to me was in Eckankar. Plus, he
never spoke about Paul Twitchell, and I'm very certain he joined Eckankar after
Twitchell's death, making his maximum time in Eckankar about 10-13 years since
Darwin started in 1971. I honestly think that 7 to 8 years is a better estimate
of the time he was a member of Eckankar. He was only about 25 to 30 years old.
>his 4th initiation. I asked him how that happened. He gave me an explanation,
> By the way, regarding the person, B.S., who personally told me about skipping
but I don't remember what it was. I believe it had something to do with the fact
that he progressed spiritually so fast, he didn't need to "pause" at the fourth.
But he wasn't arrogant so he probably said something like "the ECK need to
progress people really fast."
>lot different now, with many members of Eckankar going almost 30 years without
> It has been mentioned in other posts on this message board that things are a
receiving their 5th initiation.
>out to people who didn't really deserve them. Of course, during the time when
> Years later, I did hear from a higher HI that Darwin gave a lot of initiations
Darwin was the LEM, whatever he did or didn't do was 100% accepted by Eckankar's
membership, but after he was kicked out, everything Darwin did or didn't do was
automatically suspect if not completely wrong.
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