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5163Re: 3rd initiation to 5th initiation (not me) in 1980-83 time frame

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  • prometheus_973
    Jan 31, 2010
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      Hi Jonathan,
      Okay, I'll give your questions a shot from my
      perspectives as a former H.I. and EK Leader.
      Yes, we had people like this turn up every now
      and then over the decades. Some had years on
      me and yet I'd never seen them before. Others
      were from other parts of the state or had left
      Eckankar and then returned. Some had been
      on a rest period, or were on a rest period and
      didn't know anything "current." Anyone not
      wanting to stick out like a sore thumb just needs
      to quote the Shariyat, or talk about the Mahanta's
      love, or about Surrender and they should fit-in
      as though they had never been gone.

      I'll respond to the questions below--


      Jonathan wrote:
      I'd like to change the subject a little bit. In my last year in Eckankar, we had
      a "guest" at a worship service, which is something that almost never happened.
      He was very quiet, middle-aged in his 50s I suppose. I thought he wasn't a
      member of Eckankar. A week or two later I learned that he was a member, had been
      for about 20 to 30 years (I can't remember the exact number), but he just never
      attended official Eckankar activities. I was really surprised. The higher HI who
      gave me the information about him said that there are a lot of members in the
      local area like this. By the way, he did live about an hour drive from the
      center.

      So, Prometheus, I would like to ask you two
      questions since you were active in the functioning
      of your Eck center.

      1.) Were you aware of people like this who had
      zero involvement in the outer functions of Eckankar?


      P- Yes, at times there I had never met some
      of those on the ESC's membership list. Others
      I knew of. Some only came to the ECK Worship
      Service (EWS) or to Satsang. Sometimes I would
      try to get them to volunteer by finding out what
      they might like to do and then I would have that
      specific coordinator speak to them. It was very
      important to welcome and befriend them and
      make them feel at home and want to join in and
      socialize and to give them a volunteer position
      so that they would feel needed. I then tried to
      get them into Satsang Classes. Of course
      that was another problem because I had to have
      a Satsang Arahata to teach the class. Some EKists
      took the Arahata Training, but still hadn't taught
      a class after two years which, according to the Guidelines,
      meant that they needed to be retrained. Retraining
      was a problem because there needed to be trainers
      available to do the retraining. Everything in Eckankar
      takes forever to accomplish. And, in the end after
      everything is said and done, only a handful of people
      ever join and even fewer renew after the first year.
      Word of mouth or Klemp getting on the radio or
      TV would be best, but Klemp is lazy and a faker
      that can't handle the heat. His main focus is to
      keep ECKists busy and involved and to sell them
      more EK materials ($)... to distribute to the trash
      cans.

      2.) And do you think that these people were commonly
      passed over for initiations?

      P- Well, that depends on who you know as well.
      I had a 4th who finally became a volunteer after
      many years of membership. I gave him an important
      coordinator position. However, he quit the position
      after six months! One promises that they will stay
      in the EK position for one year (ending on Oct.22).
      Apparently he had some pull with some friends of
      the RESA and I was never called about his initiation.
      He soon got his 5th! I would never have approved
      him. His knowledge of the EK teachings were poor
      and he was a poor example for an EK leader. He
      did make an attempt to turn over a "new leaf" but
      it was too little too late. To this day he's still a
      poor excuse for a H.I., but that's good!

      Other people who don't volunteer or attend
      the appropriate training classes for advancement
      will be passed over. Plus, one has to have an
      "active" membership. If you're on a rest period
      then your time-in-grade for advancement is
      frozen. Also, one has to watch out what they
      say, where and when, and to whom they say it.
      Sometimes honestly is not the best policy! If
      you get put on the RESA's Black List and are
      passed over you can be in the toilet for "at least"
      three years or until you prove yourself to the
      Next RESA.

      I've seen it happen where the RESA stepped
      down and people who never had a chance of
      getting promoted finally got promoted! I've
      also seen people move to other states and get
      promoted immediately under a different (nicer)
      RESA. It happens all the time. Attend enough
      seminars and talk to enough EK Leaders and
      you can hear all sorts of "stories" that Klemp
      doesn't want to hear or know about. So much
      for the "All Knowing Mahanta!"

      Yes, I remember back in the mid 80's that
      there were Circles of Initiation Workshops
      and that some H.I.s had to pass at being
      facilitators on certain ones (third & fourth)
      because they either skipped that initiation
      or had been in it for only a few months before
      getting promoted. How can one talk about
      the trials and tribulations of the 4th when
      you skipped it or had been in it for a few
      months?

      Prometheus





      jonathan wrote:
      Prometheus,

      Thanks for your reply. You said "I had heard that people had skipped initiations
      and this was years prior to Darwin's fall." I thought it was about 1980-1981
      when this person told me this, but he might have received his 5th years before.
      So thank you for your verification that you heard about it years before Darwin's
      fall. He was a very honest person, I don't doubt that he skipped his 4th, just
      as he told me that he did. After all, if he was going to lie, he probably would
      have said that it didn't happen in order to cover up the fact. I wanted to
      mention it just as a way of attempting to preserve the "true history" of
      Eckankar. I'm not sure why I care about doing that (for them) but I do. I guess
      I don't want to see them put out their fabricated history of Eckankar where they
      say "rumors that people in the past skipped imitations are untrue." I could just
      see that happening. But I still don't know why I care. I guess I believe the
      world deserves an honest history of Eckankar. And I certainly don't trust them
      to do it.

      You also said "One person who posted here on ESA recently, Colleen Russell, made
      it to the 7th in 10 years or less." That is truly amazing, isn't it? It makes my
      recollection (and interpretation) of the Eckist I spoke to, B.S., making it to
      the 5th in 7 to 8 years by 1981 all the more believable. But he was definitely
      doing all the "right stuff," I feel because he really believed in it. A few
      years later he went to work for the International office.

      You also said "I knew of one Eckist who got on the wrong side of his Klemp-Kal
      like RESA and remained a 4th for 25 years!" My experience was that I got my 5th
      on the "29 year mark." But I did take a five year sabbatical. And I wasn't doing
      any of the right things. I didn't give talks. I put up some posters with some
      other people one time. I never volunteered at the Eck center. I did volunteer at
      an Eckankar booth at a health fair one time. I did attend the Worship Services,
      at times fairly regularly, but I guess that didn't count for very much.

      Also, I thought the initiation were based on my spiritual progress. I thought
      Klemp was hard at work on the inner, keeping track of me, much like Santa Clause
      does. So I had no clue that your next initiation was based on doing volunteer
      work to promote Eckankar.

      So it truly is amazing to see the differences between now and back in the days
      when Darwin was the LEM. I think you have already mentioned this many times, but
      I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that Klemp has become more and
      more paranoid through the years. And so he demands more and more and more
      through the years before he even trusts any members. I must admit that when you
      were discussing the difference between Darwin and today's Klemp, I didn't
      realize how severe the difference was.

      I'd like to change the subject a little bit. In my last year in Eckankar, we had
      a "guest" at a worship service, which is something that almost never happened.
      He was very quiet, middle-aged in his 50s I suppose. I thought he wasn't a
      member of Eckankar. A week or two later I learned that he was a member, had been
      for about 20 to 30 years (I can't remember the exact number), but he just never
      attended official Eckankar activities. I was really surprised. The higher HI who
      gave me the information about him said that there are a lot of members in the
      local area like this. By the way, he did live about an hour drive from the
      center.

      So, Prometheus, I would like to ask you two questions since you were active in
      the functioning of your Eck center. Were you aware of people like this who had
      zero involvement in the outer functions of Eckankar? And do you think that these
      people were commonly passed over for initiations?

      Jonathan
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