5091EK Initiations - PT, DG, HK
- Dec 15 11:16 AMHello Etznab and All,
It's true that Darwin gave out many
more initiations than Klemp. After
all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin!
BTW- In "Difficulties" on page 255,
"Paul Translates," is this quote that
shows that these two Higher Initiates
were of Paul's inner circle:
"A short time after they had departed
one of the Fifth Initiates [Anita Foos]
felt a sharp call on the inner to go to
him... The separation was immediate
and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th Initiate,
witnessed Paulji ascending [to heaven]
in the company of the ECK Masters
of the Vairagi."
I wonder why Klemp doesn't want
this historical and inspirational book
reprinted? Isn't this a good EK "story,"
or "testimonial" that gives some validity
to the EK teachings? What does Klemp
fear by Not sharing this book with all
ECKists? HK could make it one of the
"members only" books if he doesn't
want the public reading some of PT's
more controversial comments.
Getting back to the EK Initiations
and Klemp... it is strange [or not]
that EKists have accepted his "slowing
-down of initiations" strategy for
all of these years. When was that
speech made? Wasn't it around
1985? So, why have EK initiations
been "slowed-down" for almost
Why aren't there hundreds of 8ths
by now? What happened to all of
those promises about the raising
of consciousness? It's Bait and Switch,
and it will continue because Klemp
is a selfish narcissist! ECKists should
draw a line in the sand and tell
Klemp to put-up or shut-up!
But, that will never happen. ECKists
don't dare say anything to criticize
the negative and detrimental policies
of the All Powerful LEM/Mahanta!
It would only get them placed on
their RESA's "Black List" and have
their files at the ESC "Red Flagged."
It's like walking on egg shells being
a good little H.I.. But that carrot
of initiation is still being dangled
in front of them. I just don't see
why the 7ths are still staying...
it must be EGO due to their "high"
status. Many like to be admired
and love being guest speakers at
Regional Seminars. And, they fear
that they would have no EK friends
left if they made the change and
left Eckankar. Loneliness can be
unpleasant. However, and what's
funny, is that it's also a "test" for
all of their so-called EK friends.
Most of them FAIL the test of
demonstrating "unconditional love"
miserably! One has to wonder why
they are called Higher Initiates!
On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
three at one time?
Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?
I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
(above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.
Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
became the Master.
1970 would have been about three years after the
2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
of Darwin Gross.
According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."
Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
Remedies when they have the LEM/
Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
up their camels?' Is this why they take
all of those vitamins and supplements
too? Is this why they stay away from
their computers (EMF fears)? What else
do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
too much fear involved with taking the
Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
everything available to them! They HUed,
did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
is told/expected to do.
When does Klemp ever take responsibility
for anything? Never! There is No Protection
by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
more B.S. promises just as it is with all
religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
There're control tactics and fear going on!
Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
This is just PR and every religion has it
in order to placate their current members
and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
A good EK Story would be that everyone
was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
Seminar and at the Temple of EK!
If one needs a religion and something
to believe in it seems that Klemp's
Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
path" that chelas signed-up for in the
beginning, (unless one has forgotten
this or their imaginations have become
too deluded over time), but pretend can
be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
sense of security and worth. Actually,
it nice to have good self-worth, but being
an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
amount of worth and power. They can't
handle it, and yet to have the higher
initiation is supposed to mean that they
have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
However, we all know that this isn't true!
Once more we have a lie that is glossed
over and unexplained... except that the
con "changes" moment to moment! At
last the Truth!
Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
can be fun too! And, it always good and
reassuring to have other like-minded
people to be in the same boat as you.
I thought that this would be interesting
for all to read and to comment on.
My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
The H.I. Letter December 2009
HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
An ECK principle states that good
health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."
ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
principle" per se. But, one does feel
more positive and happy about life
when they have good health. However,
isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]
HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
how to better our health, and thus enjoy
living in a more satisfying way.
A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
me in a food store. The wife mentioned
a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
a common complaint that goes with
the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].
I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
It is ten to twelve times more effective
than the capsules she was using. And
later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
giving her relief.
Yet constipation told a deeper, more
fundamental condition, which was
related to nutrition.
As the ECK would have it, I met the
couple two weeks later."
ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
Age methods and supplements such as
Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
of current, valid, and accepted medical
treatments) does more harm than good.]
HK: "So I recommended a local radio
program that addresses health issues.
The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
in their respective fields. And both are
dedicated to helping people overcome
ailments of all kinds."
ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
giving recommendations? As LEM/
Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
available to him... why doesn't he
have his own radio show? Why do
unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
work? He's getting paid for doing
what, all day long? Let's hear a
live conversation, views, and a
Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
Harry's just lazy and is not what
he claims to be. The proof is in the
HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
health issues, THEY SAY, are due
to poor nutrition.
THEY STRONGLY discourage the
use of chocolate and coffee, for both
are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
to migraine headaches. The problem
is the Caffeine in them."
ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
that DARK Chocolate is good for
heart health, and caffeine doesn't
affect all people the same. Besides,
there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
Klemp has such a limited focus!]
HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
upon,both for Caffeine as well as
ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
to prevent staining your teeth!]
HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
grams of carbohydrates soon changes
during digestion, into seven teaspoons
of sugar, which may produce all kinds
of problems for young and old alike."
ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
available to anyone on the internet) be
in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
be banded from future potlucks. It seems
that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]
HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
through A More Thorough Training
Program than does a Dietician."
ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
the radio program he's recommending
is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
half of the comments and health advice
are being given by a less qualified person.
Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
who are no longer mesmerized by him
can see beyond his double talk!]
HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
be sure that the individual is licensed."
ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
that they really know what they are
talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]
HK: "I understand that in some places,
nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."
ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
be" a LEM/Mahanta!]
HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
Board of Trustees, we handled the business
first. Then they asked if I would speak to
ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]
HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
ME: [The Board could have read about it
in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
his newly found knowledge.]
HK: "A Board Member asked for more
information and the aforementioned radio
I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
doctors and the like, because you can usually
find a qualified practitioner right in the local
area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]
HK: so I passed along their company's
Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
computers generate. They have to be careful
because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
Helping people find better health is their
main concern." END of Part 1
ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
making money just as it is with Klemp!
And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
a health related field. I'm trying to figure
out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
How's that work? Don't "they" just second
guess other so-called "experts" and
look at studies of a narrow and bias
focus with old information that supports
their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
does! It's no wonder he relates to them
as he does!
Below is the site Klemp was talking
about. What's interesting is reading
the bios of these people and looking
at their pictures! For being "experts
in their fields" most certainly don't
look like they've been walking the
walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
Look at his health!
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>