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5091EK Initiations - PT, DG, HK

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  • prometheus_973
    Dec 15 11:16 AM
      Hello Etznab and All,
      It's true that Darwin gave out many
      more initiations than Klemp. After
      all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin!

      BTW- In "Difficulties" on page 255,
      "Paul Translates," is this quote that
      shows that these two Higher Initiates
      were of Paul's inner circle:

      "A short time after they had departed
      one of the Fifth Initiates [Anita Foos]
      felt a sharp call on the inner to go to
      him... The separation was immediate
      and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th Initiate,
      witnessed Paulji ascending [to heaven]
      in the company of the ECK Masters
      of the Vairagi."

      I wonder why Klemp doesn't want
      this historical and inspirational book
      reprinted? Isn't this a good EK "story,"
      or "testimonial" that gives some validity
      to the EK teachings? What does Klemp
      fear by Not sharing this book with all
      ECKists? HK could make it one of the
      "members only" books if he doesn't
      want the public reading some of PT's
      more controversial comments.

      Getting back to the EK Initiations
      and Klemp... it is strange [or not]
      that EKists have accepted his "slowing
      -down of initiations" strategy for
      all of these years. When was that
      speech made? Wasn't it around
      1985? So, why have EK initiations
      been "slowed-down" for almost
      25 years?

      Why aren't there hundreds of 8ths
      by now? What happened to all of
      those promises about the raising
      of consciousness? It's Bait and Switch,
      and it will continue because Klemp
      is a selfish narcissist! ECKists should
      draw a line in the sand and tell
      Klemp to put-up or shut-up!
      But, that will never happen. ECKists
      don't dare say anything to criticize
      the negative and detrimental policies
      of the All Powerful LEM/Mahanta!
      It would only get them placed on
      their RESA's "Black List" and have
      their files at the ESC "Red Flagged."

      It's like walking on egg shells being
      a good little H.I.. But that carrot
      of initiation is still being dangled
      in front of them. I just don't see
      why the 7ths are still staying...
      it must be EGO due to their "high"
      status. Many like to be admired
      and love being guest speakers at
      Regional Seminars. And, they fear
      that they would have no EK friends
      left if they made the change and
      left Eckankar. Loneliness can be
      unpleasant. However, and what's
      funny, is that it's also a "test" for
      all of their so-called EK friends.
      Most of them FAIL the test of
      demonstrating "unconditional love"
      miserably! One has to wonder why
      they are called Higher Initiates!


      etznab wrote:

      On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
      three at one time?

      Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
      a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
      Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?

      I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
      founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
      second initiation.

      In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
      (above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
      Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.

      Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
      time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
      there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
      the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
      ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
      became the Master.

      1970 would have been about three years after the
      2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
      So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
      5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
      of Darwin Gross.


      Prometheus wrote:
      According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
      H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
      poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."

      Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
      Remedies when they have the LEM/
      Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
      up their camels?' Is this why they take
      all of those vitamins and supplements
      too? Is this why they stay away from
      their computers (EMF fears)? What else
      do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
      health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
      too much fear involved with taking the

      Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
      will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
      didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
      Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
      everything available to them! They HUed,
      did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
      fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
      Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
      is told/expected to do.

      When does Klemp ever take responsibility
      for anything? Never! There is No Protection
      by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
      more B.S. promises just as it is with all
      religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
      and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
      There're control tactics and fear going on!
      Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
      always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
      Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
      This is just PR and every religion has it
      in order to placate their current members
      and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
      in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
      A good EK Story would be that everyone
      was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
      Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
      Seminar and at the Temple of EK!

      If one needs a religion and something
      to believe in it seems that Klemp's
      Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
      typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
      path" that chelas signed-up for in the
      beginning, (unless one has forgotten
      this or their imaginations have become
      too deluded over time), but pretend can
      be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
      sense of security and worth. Actually,
      it nice to have good self-worth, but being
      an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
      amount of worth and power. They can't
      handle it, and yet to have the higher
      initiation is supposed to mean that they
      have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
      all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
      However, we all know that this isn't true!
      Once more we have a lie that is glossed
      over and unexplained... except that the
      con "changes" moment to moment! At
      last the Truth!

      Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
      is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
      can be fun too! And, it always good and
      reassuring to have other like-minded
      people to be in the same boat as you.


      prometheus wrote:
      Hello All,
      I thought that this would be interesting
      for all to read and to comment on.
      My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
      are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

      The H.I. Letter December 2009

      HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
      An ECK principle states that good
      health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

      ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
      principle" per se. But, one does feel
      more positive and happy about life
      when they have good health. However,
      isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
      as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

      HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
      how to better our health, and thus enjoy
      living in a more satisfying way.

      A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
      me in a food store. The wife mentioned
      a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
      a common complaint that goes with
      the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

      I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
      It is ten to twelve times more effective
      than the capsules she was using. And
      later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
      giving her relief.

      Yet constipation told a deeper, more
      fundamental condition, which was
      related to nutrition.

      As the ECK would have it, I met the
      couple two weeks later."

      ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
      Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
      Age methods and supplements such as
      Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
      brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
      treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
      him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
      now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
      and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
      of current, valid, and accepted medical
      treatments) does more harm than good.]

      HK: "So I recommended a local radio
      program that addresses health issues.

      The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
      and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
      in their respective fields. And both are
      dedicated to helping people overcome
      ailments of all kinds."

      ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
      giving recommendations? As LEM/
      Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
      available to him... why doesn't he
      have his own radio show? Why do
      unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
      work? He's getting paid for doing
      what, all day long? Let's hear a
      live conversation, views, and a
      Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
      Harry's just lazy and is not what
      he claims to be. The proof is in the

      HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
      health issues, THEY SAY, are due
      to poor nutrition.

      THEY STRONGLY discourage the
      use of chocolate and coffee, for both
      are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
      to migraine headaches. The problem
      is the Caffeine in them."

      ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
      that DARK Chocolate is good for
      heart health, and caffeine doesn't
      affect all people the same. Besides,
      there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
      Klemp has such a limited focus!]

      HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
      upon,both for Caffeine as well as

      ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
      or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
      soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
      to prevent staining your teeth!]

      HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
      amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
      convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
      a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
      grams of carbohydrates soon changes
      during digestion, into seven teaspoons
      of sugar, which may produce all kinds
      of problems for young and old alike."

      ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
      by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
      available to anyone on the internet) be
      in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
      this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
      is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
      chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
      years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
      one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
      be banded from future potlucks. It seems
      that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

      HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
      through A More Thorough Training
      Program than does a Dietician."

      ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
      the radio program he's recommending
      is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
      half of the comments and health advice
      are being given by a less qualified person.
      Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
      who are no longer mesmerized by him
      can see beyond his double talk!]

      HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
      be sure that the individual is licensed."

      ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
      that they really know what they are
      talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

      HK: "I understand that in some places,
      nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

      ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
      be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

      HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
      Board of Trustees, we handled the business
      first. Then they asked if I would speak to

      ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
      given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

      HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
      nutrition, and its vital relationship with good

      ME: [The Board could have read about it
      in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
      radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
      he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
      his newly found knowledge.]

      HK: "A Board Member asked for more
      information and the aforementioned radio

      I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
      doctors and the like, because you can usually
      find a qualified practitioner right in the local
      area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed

      ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

      HK: so I passed along their company's
      Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
      com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
      hurt you."

      ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
      more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
      by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
      However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
      his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
      Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
      computers generate. They have to be careful
      because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
      (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

      HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
      Helping people find better health is their
      main concern." END of Part 1

      ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
      making money just as it is with Klemp!
      And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
      are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
      a health related field. I'm trying to figure
      out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
      How's that work? Don't "they" just second
      guess other so-called "experts" and
      look at studies of a narrow and bias
      focus with old information that supports
      their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
      does! It's no wonder he relates to them
      as he does!

      Below is the site Klemp was talking
      about. What's interesting is reading
      the bios of these people and looking
      at their pictures! For being "experts
      in their fields" most certainly don't
      look like they've been walking the
      walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
      Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
      Look at his health!


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