5083Re: HK: Attention! ECK Stories Needed... Desperately!
- Dec 10, 2009Hello Jonathan,
I enjoyed reading your responses
too and would like to comment on
the three topics you listed below.
"Nice commentary, Prometheus.
Regarding the submission of stories from
HIs to Eckankar headquarters. My discussion
will relate mostly to inner expereinces.
Yes, the stories will be edited. And it probably
won't be merely for clarity and length, but
the "powers that be " at Eckankar will edit
out anything that doesn't agree with Eckankar's
present advertising campaign designed to
bring new people into Eckankar. In other
words, The Eckankar office in Chanhassen
will edit out anything that is different than
what is taught by Klemp in the present Eck
literature and talks by Klemp.
But more than that, any HI who has had "unusual"
or "different" or "controversial" experiences already
knows that you have to just keep your mouth
shut, or at most tell only a trusted friend in Eckankar.
Although, even that is risky because after all, that
person might "inform on you" or at least that is
the fear that a lot of members in Eckankar have."
P- This is so true! If ECKists can't say anything
nice (false), fake it, or follow the party line of what
is expected. The RESA and other higher-ups, in the
local Satsang Society, will remember the negative
when one's name comes down from the ESA for
approval for initiation. Anyone with any common
sense or has contact with the local EK leadership
learns the initiation survival techniques of Silence,
Service and Surrender over the years. People must
comply and conform in order to advance in Eckankar.
"So Eckankar isn't a very indidvidual religion since
if your inner experiences are different that the official
Eckankar story line, you cant't tell anybody about them.
Just ask Graham Forsyth. He had some very unusual
experiences, and seeking help, he told two HIs who
were unable to help him. Some of his experiences where
eventually passed on to Klemp through Ford Johnson.
Both Graham and Ford expected some help, but instead
of receiving understanding and compassion Graham
was slam-dunked by Klemp who took Graham's experiences
personally as a direct affront to his (Klemp's) supreme
power as the ruler of Eckankar."
P- Yes! Klemp's knee-jerk reaction toward Graham
lacked compassion and understanding. It was just
a dream for God's sake! Yet, Graham got demoted
to a 1st initiate! Talk about intimidation! Klemp
made Graham into an example for all to see and
"So anyone sending stories into Eckankar should be
careful. I don't want to put a fear-based curse on any
members of Eckankar, but if your experiences differ from
the official Eckankar story line, they probably are not
P- I was always careful as to what I put in my
H.I.ROs because HK's goon squad (who reads
them) will red flag certain comments. The repercussions
of this (getting put into one's file) will show up
as a longer wait-of-time between initiations, or
No initiations will come At All until your initiations
are "unfrozen" by your next RESA. I've seen Initiations
being frozen on a 4th, 5th and a 6th initiate, although,
this was done for various reasons involving a
"lack of self-discipline!"
"So for a religion that constantly preaches how much
it is for the individual, it really doesn't work out that
way. Sure it is individual, but only in your own mind
since you can't share it with anyone.
Now for my second topic. Originally, Eckankar (Paul
and Darwin) taught that healing yourself was wrong!
Specifically, they stated that using Sprit to heal
yourself was wrong. I can remember in one of Darwin's
tapes he tells a humorous story about his trip to the
dentist. The dentist asks him "What do you do for a
living?" Darwin relies "I am a healer." Of course, everyone
in the Eck audience chuckled becasue thay saw the irony
in a healer going to a health professonal to be healed.
Darwin intended it to be funny. But Darwin goes onto
explain "I can't direct Divine Spirit toward myself to heal
myself because it is in violation of spiritual law." So this
was the standard teaching on this subject by Darwin,
and, I presume, Paul."
P- PT & DG seemed to have a bassackwards/ass backwards
approach to this. According to the current EK religious
dogma IF one Heals others then there is Karma involved
[next comes the disclaimer for "professionals"], but anyone
hoping to be a 500 year old EK Master, like the fictitious
RT, should be able to heal oneself! Too bad PT or DG didn't
explain how RT could get away with it. Isn't that a part
of learning Self-Mastery? Thus, this is why Klemp has
to use New Age Healers/Health Care Practitioners versus
using the ECK (Spirit). Klemp hasn't learned Self-Mastery
"I think Klemp went along with this initially, so I was
surprised when Klemp started saying that you could
visualize light on various parts of your body to heal
yourself. I said to myself "Wait a minute! Isn't that
against the teachings of Eckankar!?" But it seems that
since that event which was probably as much as ten
years ago, Klemp has suggested more and more ways
to heal yourself."
P- This is true! HK said the "orange light" was for
a Physical healing and the "blue light" was for a
Mental healing. Now, it seems Klemp is talking
about using Physical means versus Spiritual and
tuning into radio shows like:
www.weightandwellness.com or seeing "qualified
practitioners" and "licensed nutritionists" for help.
Once again, Klemp plays the role as Middleman!
"Maybe I am exaggerating things, but this seems
like one more example of contradictions in Eckankar.
On the other hand, maybe I should give Klemp some
credit for "changing" this because I think the original
attitude by Paul and Darwin was flawed. I think that
healing yourself is OK. Let's face it, everything is a
manifestation of Spirit, so even if I just put a bandage
on a cut, aren't I manipulating Spirit to help heal myself?
Of course I am. Manipulating energy is just getting to
things/problems at a more subtle energy level."
P- Klemp is just a different kind of phony!
"Not to mention that I knew several people in Eckankar
who were "energy healers" for many, many years. I always
wondered how these people continued as members of
Eckankar, but I guess they decided on their own that
energy healing was OK, and bravo to them for having
the courage to do that. Anyway, Klemp is finally coming
around to their way of thinking so they relaly have nothing
to worry about now."
P- I did practice Reiki at one time, as well as, some
other forms of healing (free of charge), but stopped
after I heard the EK warnings. I'm thinking that the
warnings are mostly to scare off the competition,
and because the LEM's don't know how to deal with
It (ECK) coming from those "lower" than 14th initiates.
The Top Dog Mahanta needs to remain King of the
Hill. Thus, in Eckankar, no one is allowed to do healing
except invisible (fake) EK Masters and the LEM/Mahanta.
However, All Healings that the Invisible EK Masters
and that Klemp claims are subjective and are done
on the "Inner" and are of Less Value (or are less
impressive) than what other believers, of other
"Last topic. Regarding the discussion of positive health
effects from doing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar, is
Klemp stealing a page from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's book?
Maharishi said that if "x" number of people would practice
Transcendental Meditation daily, eventually the "Maharishi
Effect" would kick in and bring world peace. Is Eckankar
going to start promoting a similar idea? I'm suggesting this
now because it just sounds kooky enough that Eckankar
might start doing this."
P- Yep! Been there (TM), done that, and bought the
tee-shirt too! Klemp just rehashes, re-spins, repackages
everything that PT & DG gave us... as well as his own
BTW- I was reading "The Over-Soul" essay by
Ralph Waldo Emerson and was reminded of
some of the things (words, thoughts and concepts)
that both Twitchell and Klemp have stolen from
others and have portrayed as their own. I especially
thought of PT's "Stranger by the River" and how
easy it would be to paraphrase passages from
Emerson's works in order to create "Stranger."
> The following "Announcement" is displayed
> in Eckankar's December 2009 H.I. Letter:
> "Spotlight on High Initiates
> You are invited to share your experience
> as an ECK H.I. with your fellow Brothers
> of the Leaf. Please send any of the following:
> * Your personal experiences and insights
> relating to the Mahanta, the ECK teachings,
> and serving as an ECK H.I. [the Negative
> * Photos of H.I.'s in ECK activities, especially
> in action, sharing and enjoying ECK.
> ["in action" means no poses with fake
> * Poems that express your love for the
> SUGMAD and the Mahanta, and being
> a Co-worker in ECK. [When will HK
> "share" his poems?]
> Send submissions to: Eckankar, Att: The
> H.I. Letter, PO Box 2000, Chanhassen, MN
> 55317-2000 USA. Or e-mail them to
> hil@... (Submissions may be
> edited for clarity and length.) Thanks for
> That last disclaimer of "submissions may
> be edited for clarity" is interesting since
> H.I.s should already have mastered the
> 4th Mental Plane and, thus, have "clarity"
> of mind. LOL!
> Next, is an example of the kind of
> delusional story, from a longtime H.I.,
> that Klemp is looking for:
> "Of Science and The Shariyat
> I read an article in Scientific American
> (May 2008) reporting that an individual's
> genetic code may continuously change
> after birth due to various environmental
> influences. This got me thinking. This
> discovery may open the door of science
> to finding real biological transformations
> and HEALING EFFECTS of LONG-TERM
> PRACTICING OF SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES.
> To me, this all seems to correspond
> to the 'rechemicalization' process mentioned
> in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 1, p. 143.
> So let's hear it for the Spiritual Excercises
> of ECK. Hip-hip, hooray!" - Phil Dunn, FL.
> [My CAPS were added to the above
> Yes! Look at how the "Healing Effects
> of Long-Term Practicing of Spiritual
> Disciplines/Exercises" have helped
> Klemp! When does the "Benjamin
> Button" effect kick-in? LOL!
> Below is the old (1970) PT Shariyat
> quote that inspired this H.I.'s delayed
> and delusional revelation concerning
> Science [that one's genetic code may
> be continuously changing] and the
> ability to use this for healing via the
> Spiritual Exercises. It has long been
> known that too much stress can have
> negative effects and that meditation
> can alleviate stress. However, this H.I.
> concludes that these changes in one's
> genetic code could be affected, for healing
> purposes, by using the "spiritual exercises."
> He supports his conclusions by making
> a correlation with this article of scientific
> discovery and with Twitchell's karmic
> "rechemicalization" theory. However, this
> H.I. misinterprets Paul's PR warning/threat
> that unless one follows the Living ECK Master
> (LEM) they will build up an unbalanced
> amount of "bad" karma.
> Paul, basically, states that one should
> Not be seeking "good" health effects
> because this is karmic "attachment"
> to the physical body. ECK is the "Middle
> Path" and, thus, Detachment (from Lower
> Plane effects) should be practiced in order
> to reach "the gates of heaven." Thus, one's
> Attention Should Not be on good or bad
> (health and/or healing), nor on the positive
> and negative effects of the physical body
> or world.
> "Burning off of karma is the state of
> rechemicalization. It is something man
> must go through while living on this earth.
> Man should be able to do this under the
> Living ECK Master. If he is under any other
> guide here on earth, this is NOT likely to
> happen. He will be receiving more bad
> karma than good and will be overbalanced
> on the negative side. He needs to be
> balanced only in the middle way, not
> on either side. Only when he can walk
> the middle path of ECK can he leave
> the Wheel of the Eighty-Four and find
> the gates of heaven."
> What's really interesting is that in
> Klemp's front page article he uses
> a lot of "BUTS" when giving advice
> on healthy eating. Nowhere did
> Klemp mention doing the "Spiritual
> Exercises of ECK" for healing or for
> Plus, isn't it interesting that Klemp
> didn't notice this H.I.'s misinterpretation
> (or his own) of Twitchell's karmic
> rechemicalization "Middle Path of
> ECK" comments. When one looks at
> Klemp's selling of Eckankar it seems
> imbalanced. It's no wonder HK and
> Company can't see the forest due to
> the trees!
- << Previous post in topic