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5041Re: HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

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  • prometheus_973
    Oct 29, 2009
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      Hello Z and All,
      I agree that there is only One link
      up with the Divine. IMO it's not
      through a manmade religion or via
      their manmade initiations. It's an
      on-going series of private, personal,
      and subjective events/experiences
      with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
      group think/consciousness, although,
      we all have commonalities.

      No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
      any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
      out real/true initiations (denoting levels
      of spiritual consciousness) to others
      by saying this or that person deserves
      one while another doesn't.

      However, one has to understand how
      religion works. It's very competitive.
      It's almost like buying an insurance
      policy. The one that has the best
      word of mouth reputation via happy
      customers and advertises more, while
      having the best value and coverage
      for the cost, usually does well until
      it defaults due to too many claims
      that it can't cover. After a default
      or a hesitation on coverage of their
      promises (policy) the company
      (religion) can come across as an
      unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
      people will then start to shop
      around. However, if you're Self-
      insured you don't need to shop

      Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
      saying that Sat Nam will take over
      Soul's guidance upon receiving the
      5th initiation.

      In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
      1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
      is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
      EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
      "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
      the Power, the Light, flowing down
      and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
      [pg. 183]

      If one is to take this literally it means
      that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
      Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
      many other religions acknowledge
      Sat Nam and have written of this
      entity in ancient text while PT, on
      the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
      competitor in 1969.

      See, once again we can see how
      religions compete with one another
      for members. Eckists need to be
      willing to stand back and take a
      detached look.

      As I said before... buying into a
      religion is like buying insurance...
      just don't trust that you can collect
      on their promises (in this lifetime)
      and read the exclusions (fine print).
      However, one should remember
      that in the Free World one doesn't
      need to buy/have a religion. It's
      not the law!


      zephrendhun wrote:

      Well said Promethius!

      But then again as I have said,
      there really is only one link up
      or one true initiation.

      IMO, all other initiations are
      EK ankar's way of maintaining
      'customer base'.

      The God Realized state can only
      be achieved through diligence
      by the chela to establish a one on
      one relationship with Divine Source.

      Strange though, I seem to remember
      reading somewhere in the works
      of ECK that after the chela reaches
      the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
      takes over looking after the chela
      and his journey into God Consciousness.
      I may be wrong, but I do believe
      I saw this somewhere in Paul's


      prometheus wrote:

      Klemp doesn't deliver on any
      real promises does he? Why
      hasn't Klemp speeded up the
      ECK initiations so that the
      promise of God-Realization
      in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

      Why were the EK initiations
      "slowed down" in the first
      place? Wasn't HK claiming
      the initiations were "slowed
      down" because of Darwin's
      past involvement with promoting
      500 EKists to the 5th before
      he was excommunicated? So,
      what's been the excuse since
      Klemp guided them to become
      real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
      these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
      have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
      or 8th initiations! Klemp has
      been using this as an excuse
      Not to promote for all of these
      years! This is subterfuge!

      Where's the Master's promise
      of "protection" to chelas too?
      Instead, the excuse is that it's
      a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
      or Karma and maybe a minor
      "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

      Here's a quote from HK's
      Eckankar Lexicon:

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
      of GOD-REALIZATION where
      Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
      the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
      is of a thousand violins; the
      word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
      the first realm created that
      and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      [page. 91]

      Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
      "Entities" "Generally Reach
      and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
      via the 8th Initiation.

      BTW- Who are these "Beings"
      and "Entities" that the 8th
      Plane is "Available To?"

      Notice that HK states that
      Soul "Generally Reaches" the
      "8th Plane." Does that include
      all Souls, or just those paying
      that Annual ECKankar Membership
      Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
      it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
      doesn't require an EK Membership
      I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
      for the public too. One has to
      assume that HK is speaking "in
      general" terms and that this includes
      all Souls, Beings, and Entities
      whoever or whatever they are!

      Yes, who are these "Beings" and
      "Entities" that Klemp is including?

      However, since ECKists are special
      since they have a "Mahanta" why is
      it that they aren't growing by leaps
      and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
      Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
      what? IMO it's another Catch-22

      Really! Let's think about it.
      Why hasn't Klemp handed
      out more 8th Initiations? By
      my guesstimate there should
      be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
      by now!

      I know that this figure sounds
      inflated and even impossible!
      Most Eckists would be shocked
      to see such a high number and
      would immediately discount and
      deny that such a high number
      would be possible. Maybe some
      H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
      or just say Haw! But, think about
      it for awhile. Let it sink in and
      consider the possibility. Hasn't
      the Consciousness of ECKists,
      and Eckankar as a group, expanded
      or "evolved" to the point where
      there should be 3,000 8th Plane

      Reread the above definition for
      HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
      Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
      Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
      Eckankar Dictionary PT stated

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
      God-Realization where Soul
      learns God-knowledge, the
      eighth plane." [pg. 62]

      Thus Klemp added the following
      to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
      in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

      "The sound is of a thousand
      violins; the word is Aluk.
      REACHES; the first realm created

      Anyway, isn't one of the big
      promises of Eckankar that of
      reaching Spiritual Freedom and
      Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
      via the ECK Initiations that are
      seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
      Consciousness? Sure it is!

      So, where are all of those 8th
      Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
      and time is running out for him
      and others. He, or someone, needs
      to make restitution and keep those
      promises, at least, with the 8th
      Initiation which equates to God-
      Realization! Even if Klemp can't
      protect the health and well being
      of his, DG's and PT's initiates
      he could at least promote and
      give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

      If it's too much for Klemp (the
      LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
      he can designate some of the
      responsibility to Rebazar and
      the other EK Masters. Therefore,
      there really shouldn't be any more
      delays or excuses. Promote them

      p.s. It's really too bad that there
      can't be an honest and open discussion
      about this. ECKists are instructed
      to "surrender" and "serve" with
      detachment and are to keep "silent"
      and not to "second guess" the LEM/
      Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
      have always maintained control
      over their followers? What does
      Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
      that he fears and this is why HK
      relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
      with their positions of authority,
      to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

      Some European Countries
      Protect Their Citizens From
      the Cults of ECKankar and

      I saw where the French office
      of the Church of Scientology
      sect got into trouble for fraud.

      Is it possible that Eckankar
      could be next? Apparently
      Eckankar and Scientology
      are listed as "sects/cults"
      in many European countries
      (France, Belgium, Germany,
      etc.). These sects, like Scientology
      and Eckankar, don't have the
      legal status of main stream
      religions, nor do they have
      the same benefits under their


      The question is:

      What could be regarded as fraud?

      Would the Annual EK Membership
      Donation/Fee that promises
      enlightenment (God-Realization),
      via the 8th initiation for most
      Eckists in this lifetime, as well
      as, the "Protections" of the Master
      for all chelas (that never happens)
      be considered as Fraud? Klemp
      slowed these initiations down
      due to Darwin's involvement,
      but that's been a long time ago!

      Look at all of the ECKists
      who have died of or have
      contracted Cancer and other
      diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
      Master) promises them

      And, look at HK's "promises"
      to chelas and H.I.s involving
      God-Realization in this lifetime
      and yet he doesn't offer enough
      Higher Initiations to fullfil his
      promises! And, maintaining
      one's initiations is directly tied
      into the Annual EK Membership
      Donation Fee.

      Thus, the taking of money by
      Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
      Discourses and EK Memberships
      and the making of False Promises
      to chelas for this present lifetime
      constitutes Fraud even though
      this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
      religions to make false promises.
      However, it is unethical and
      amoral at the very least! It does
      give "hope" to the disillusioned,
      disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
      but isn't Eckankar supposed to
      be the best and highest path to
      help these Souls on earth, as well
      as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
      "promises" of the Master a reality
      in the physical instead of always
      being a KAL test or Karma?

      However, under most European
      Laws would this failure to deliver
      be considered to be fraudulent
      enough to be classified as a crime
      against the public? It seems so!

      It could be that under the laws
      of certain European countries that
      Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
      be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
      or former Eckist, decided to be
      refunded the sums of their Annual
      EK Membership Donation Fees,
      and Eckankar denied the refunds.

      Maybe some former or current
      German, French, and Belgium
      Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
      for a refund for the sum of their
      EK Memberships over the years!

      Will Eckankar follow Scientology?


      Here's an excerpt of the definition
      of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary

      "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
      of truth for the purpose of inducing
      another in reliance upon it to part
      with some valuable thing belonging
      to him or to surrender a legal right...

      [A Required/Requested Annual
      Membership Donation $$$$$$]

      Elements of a cause of action for
      'fraud' include false representation
      of a present or past fact made by
      the defendant, action in reliance
      thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
      resulting to plaintiff from such
      misrepresentation... As distinguished
      from negligence, it is always
      positive, intentional. It comprises
      all acts, omissions, and concealments
      involving a breach of a legal or
      equitable duty and resulting in
      damage to another. And includes
      anything calculated to deceive,
      whether it be a single act or
      combination of circumstances...
      Fraud, as applied to contracts,
      is the cause of an error bearing
      on a material part of the contract,
      created or contained by artifice,
      with design to obtain some unjust
      advantage to one party, or to cause
      an inconvenience or loss to the other."

      Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
      fraud of misrepresentation since
      it doesn't deliver on the Higher
      Initiations ["omissions"] required
      to attain God-Realization! [Refer
      to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
      2, Chapter 12.]

      Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
      "contract" with his followers, but
      he only makes empty promises
      and does not fulfill his obligations,
      and yet he's ready and willing to take
      Eckists' hard earned money!

      And, let's look at Eckankar's
      "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
      plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
      to cover-up these facts.

      Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
      sects, and cults (unless proven to be
      guilty of higher crimes) basically have
      carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
      make false promises for money.

      What a scam! Eckists have been paying
      for their initiations for years but have
      been locked-out of those required for

      It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
      lead. However, in Belgium, France and
      Germany these cults and sects don't
      have the same protection as "religions"
      do. This is what the U.S. should have
      done 50 years ago!

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