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5040Re: HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

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  • zephrendhun
    Oct 29, 2009
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      Well said Promethius! But then again as I have said, there really is only one link up or one true initiation. IMO, all other initiations are EK ankar's way of maintaining 'customer base'. The God Realized state can only be achieved through diligence by the chela to establish a one on one relationship with Divine Source. Strange though, I seem to remember reading somewhere in the works of ECK that after the chela reaches the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam takes over looking after the chela and his jorney into God Consciousness. I may be wrong, but I do believe I saw this somewhere in Paul's writings.

      Fashji

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Klemp doesn't deliver on any
      > real promises does he? Why
      > hasn't Klemp speeded up the
      > ECK initiations so that the
      > promise of God-Realization
      > in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?
      >
      > Why were the EK initiations
      > "slowed down" in the first
      > place? Wasn't HK claiming
      > the initiations were "slowed
      > down" because of Darwin's
      > past involvement with promoting
      > 500 EKists to the 5th before
      > he was excommunicated? So,
      > what's been the excuse since
      > Klemp guided them to become
      > real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
      > these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
      > have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
      > or 8th initiations! Klemp has
      > been using this as an excuse
      > Not to promote for all of these
      > years! This is subterfuge!
      >
      > Where's the Master's promise
      > of "protection" to chelas too?
      > Instead, the excuse is that it's
      > a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
      > or Karma and maybe a minor
      > "test" for chelas (lower initiates).
      >
      > Here's a quote from HK's
      > Eckankar Lexicon:
      >
      > "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
      > of GOD-REALIZATION where
      > Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
      > the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
      > is of a thousand violins; the
      > word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
      > SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
      > the first realm created that
      > IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
      > and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      > [page. 91]
      >
      > Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
      > "Entities" "Generally Reach
      > and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
      > via the 8th Initiation.
      >
      > BTW- Who are these "Beings"
      > and "Entities" that the 8th
      > Plane is "Available To?"
      >
      > Notice that HK states that
      > Soul "Generally Reaches" the
      > "8th Plane." Does that include
      > all Souls, or just those paying
      > that Annual ECKankar Membership
      > Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
      > it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
      > doesn't require an EK Membership
      > I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
      > for the public too. One has to
      > assume that HK is speaking "in
      > general" terms and that this includes
      > all Souls, Beings, and Entities
      > whoever or whatever they are!
      >
      > Yes, who are these "Beings" and
      > "Entities" that Klemp is including?
      >
      > However, since ECKists are special
      > since they have a "Mahanta" why is
      > it that they aren't growing by leaps
      > and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
      > Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
      > what? IMO it's another Catch-22
      > "Test!"
      >
      > Really! Let's think about it.
      > Why hasn't Klemp handed
      > out more 8th Initiations? By
      > my guesstimate there should
      > be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
      > by now!
      >
      > I know that this figure sounds
      > inflated and even impossible!
      > Most Eckists would be shocked
      > to see such a high number and
      > would immediately discount and
      > deny that such a high number
      > would be possible. Maybe some
      > H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
      > or just say Haw! But, think about
      > it for awhile. Let it sink in and
      > consider the possibility. Hasn't
      > the Consciousness of ECKists,
      > and Eckankar as a group, expanded
      > or "evolved" to the point where
      > there should be 3,000 8th Plane
      > Initiates?
      >
      > Reread the above definition for
      > HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
      > Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
      > Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
      > Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
      > this:
      >
      > "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
      > God-Realization where Soul
      > learns God-knowledge, the
      > eighth plane." [pg. 62]
      >
      > Thus Klemp added the following
      > to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
      > in his 1998 EK Lexicon:
      >
      > "The sound is of a thousand
      > violins; the word is Aluk.
      > HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
      > REACHES; the first realm created
      > that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
      > SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      >
      > Anyway, isn't one of the big
      > promises of Eckankar that of
      > reaching Spiritual Freedom and
      > Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
      > via the ECK Initiations that are
      > seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
      > Consciousness? Sure it is!
      >
      > So, where are all of those 8th
      > Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
      > and time is running out for him
      > and others. He, or someone, needs
      > to make restitution and keep those
      > promises, at least, with the 8th
      > Initiation which equates to God-
      > Realization! Even if Klemp can't
      > protect the health and well being
      > of his, DG's and PT's initiates
      > he could at least promote and
      > give ECKists the 8th Initiation.
      >
      > If it's too much for Klemp (the
      > LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
      > he can designate some of the
      > responsibility to Rebazar and
      > the other EK Masters. Therefore,
      > there really shouldn't be any more
      > delays or excuses. Promote them
      > now!
      >
      > Prometheus
      > p.s. It's really too bad that there
      > can't be an honest and open discussion
      > about this. ECKists are instructed
      > to "surrender" and "serve" with
      > detachment and are to keep "silent"
      > and not to "second guess" the LEM/
      > Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
      > have always maintained control
      > over their followers? What does
      > Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
      > that he fears and this is why HK
      > relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
      > with their positions of authority,
      > to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.
      >
      > ******
      > Some European Countries
      > Protect Their Citizens From
      > the Cults of ECKankar and
      > Scientology.
      >
      > I saw where the French office
      > of the Church of Scientology
      > sect got into trouble for fraud.
      >
      > Is it possible that Eckankar
      > could be next? Apparently
      > Eckankar and Scientology
      > are listed as "sects/cults"
      > in many European countries
      > (France, Belgium, Germany,
      > etc.). These sects, like Scientology
      > and Eckankar, don't have the
      > legal status of main stream
      > religions, nor do they have
      > the same benefits under their
      > laws.
      >
      > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html
      >
      >
      > The question is:
      >
      > What could be regarded as fraud?
      >
      > Would the Annual EK Membership
      > Donation/Fee that promises
      > enlightenment (God-Realization),
      > via the 8th initiation for most
      > Eckists in this lifetime, as well
      > as, the "Protections" of the Master
      > for all chelas (that never happens)
      > be considered as Fraud? Klemp
      > slowed these initiations down
      > due to Darwin's involvement,
      > but that's been a long time ago!
      >
      > Look at all of the ECKists
      > who have died of or have
      > contracted Cancer and other
      > diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
      > Master) promises them
      > "Protection!"
      >
      > And, look at HK's "promises"
      > to chelas and H.I.s involving
      > God-Realization in this lifetime
      > and yet he doesn't offer enough
      > Higher Initiations to fullfil his
      > promises! And, maintaining
      > one's initiations is directly tied
      > into the Annual EK Membership
      > Donation Fee.
      >
      > Thus, the taking of money by
      > Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
      > Discourses and EK Memberships
      > and the making of False Promises
      > to chelas for this present lifetime
      > constitutes Fraud even though
      > this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
      > religions to make false promises.
      > However, it is unethical and
      > amoral at the very least! It does
      > give "hope" to the disillusioned,
      > disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
      > but isn't Eckankar supposed to
      > be the best and highest path to
      > help these Souls on earth, as well
      > as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
      > "promises" of the Master a reality
      > in the physical instead of always
      > being a KAL test or Karma?
      >
      > However, under most European
      > Laws would this failure to deliver
      > be considered to be fraudulent
      > enough to be classified as a crime
      > against the public? It seems so!
      >
      > It could be that under the laws
      > of certain European countries that
      > Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
      > be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
      > or former Eckist, decided to be
      > refunded the sums of their Annual
      > EK Membership Donation Fees,
      > and Eckankar denied the refunds.
      >
      > Maybe some former or current
      > German, French, and Belgium
      > Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
      > for a refund for the sum of their
      > EK Memberships over the years!
      >
      >
      > Will Eckankar follow Scientology?
      >
      > ******
      >
      > Here's an excerpt of the definition
      > of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
      > (1991):
      >
      > "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
      > of truth for the purpose of inducing
      > another in reliance upon it to part
      > with some valuable thing belonging
      > to him or to surrender a legal right...
      >
      > [A Required/Requested Annual
      > Membership Donation $$$$$$]
      >
      > Elements of a cause of action for
      > 'fraud' include false representation
      > of a present or past fact made by
      > the defendant, action in reliance
      > thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
      > resulting to plaintiff from such
      > misrepresentation... As distinguished
      > from negligence, it is always
      > positive, intentional. It comprises
      > all acts, omissions, and concealments
      > involving a breach of a legal or
      > equitable duty and resulting in
      > damage to another. And includes
      > anything calculated to deceive,
      > whether it be a single act or
      > combination of circumstances...
      > Fraud, as applied to contracts,
      > is the cause of an error bearing
      > on a material part of the contract,
      > created or contained by artifice,
      > with design to obtain some unjust
      > advantage to one party, or to cause
      > an inconvenience or loss to the other."
      >
      >
      > Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
      > fraud of misrepresentation since
      > it doesn't deliver on the Higher
      > Initiations ["omissions"] required
      > to attain God-Realization! [Refer
      > to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
      > 2, Chapter 12.]
      >
      > Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
      > "contract" with his followers, but
      > he only makes empty promises
      > and does not fulfill his obligations,
      > and yet he's ready and willing to take
      > Eckists' hard earned money!
      >
      > And, let's look at Eckankar's
      > "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
      > plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
      > to cover-up these facts.
      >
      > Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
      > sects, and cults (unless proven to be
      > guilty of higher crimes) basically have
      > carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
      > make false promises for money.
      >
      > What a scam! Eckists have been paying
      > for their initiations for years but have
      > been locked-out of those required for
      > God-Realization!
      >
      > It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
      > lead. However, in Belgium, France and
      > Germany these cults and sects don't
      > have the same protection as "religions"
      > do. This is what the U.S. should have
      > done 50 years ago!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
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