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5001Re: A Book of Circular Thinking?

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  • prometheus_973
    Oct 12, 2009
      Hello All,
      Do you think Klemp will
      mention that Darwin died
      at this up coming Seminar?

      If Rebazar died, as well,
      maybe that will be the
      excuse to make Joan an
      EK Master... to take
      Rebazar's place! Or,
      would she finally be
      taking Darwin's place?

      BTW - I found a new way
      that Klemp and Company
      can make more money.

      http://www.saintsforsinners.com/medalsgallery.html

      This site is "Saints for Sinners"
      where people can buy a medallion
      with their favorite Saint painted
      upon it. All Eckankar has to do
      is substitute the EK Masters for
      the Saints... like Twitchell did!
      Anyway, I'm sure that every Eckist
      would buy a Rebazar Medallion
      for whatever the cost!

      Prometheus


      realbizarretarzs wrote:

      You're right. Maybe Rebazar
      died and Harold was afraid
      to talk about it.

      After all, he still hasn't mentioned
      the death of the 972nd Mahanta!


      prometheus wrote:

      > Hello All,
      > In the Catholic Church there
      > are all types within the "spiritual
      > hierarchy" that can intercede
      > with God on the behalf of man.
      > Twitchell and Klemp merely
      > copied this as well and added
      > EK Masters and a Mahanta!

      http://www.catholic .org/encyclopedi a/view.php? id=6146

      > The thing about doing research
      > on eCkankar is that Twitchell's
      > version (with "c" added) along
      > with Rebazar Tarzs didn't exist
      > more than 50 years ago!
      >
      > This No Contact is strange
      > (not really) since Rebazar has
      > been around for 500 years, in
      > the same physical body, and
      > even sailed with Columbus
      > (according to Klemp)!
      >
      > Yet, there is nothing, anywhere,
      > mentioning REBAZAR (the
      > Torchbearer) by name nor
      > is there anything written by
      > RT (in his own hand) for 500
      > years!
      >
      > And, since Rebazar does
      > (supposedly) have a 500
      > year old physical body why
      > didn't he show up before and
      > after Twit died versus Gail
      > having to use a dream from
      > Paul to elect Darwin as LEM?
      >
      > Why hasn't RT shown up at
      > an EK Seminar in all of these
      > years and given a talk? Is he
      > too good for that?
      >
      > If Klemp, Rebazar's Mahanta,
      > isn't too good or too "high"
      > to give a Seminar talk why
      > can't Rebazar appear and
      > give one too? He is a physical
      > being, still! Thus, RT should
      > be expected to show up every
      > now and then. But... he hasn't
      > ever shown up! Maybe Rebazar's
      > dead and Klemp hasn't mentioned
      > it because he pissed HK off by
      > never showing up at an EK Seminar!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > realbizarretarzs wrote:
      >
      > Hi there!
      >
      > The intercession part is the
      > part I really don't understand!
      >
      > Because of "Key To Secret Worlds"
      > and the previously published short
      > articles found in "In My Soul I Am
      > Free," I was at odds with my
      > Presbyterian minister while taking
      > confirmation classes (not my idea,
      > of course, but my parents' idea of
      > a good time) over this very point.
      >
      > I got the highest grades on everything,
      > even higher than the minister's son,
      > but the minister was always trying
      > to convince me, and wrote stuff in
      > the margins of my essays, that
      > intercession with "Jesus Christ" was
      > necessary in order to have any kind
      > of relationship with Spirit.
      >
      > And I agree with you about everything
      > else you just said. Was Paul paying
      > Rebazar $160.00 a year?
      >
      > How much did Rebazar pay Fubbi Quantz?
      >
      > And so forth all the way back to Gakko?
      >
      > It's funny that you mention connecting
      > the dots.
      >
      > That is when I began to discover the
      > books we weren't supposed to know
      > about. In the nineties I was trying to
      > connect the dots, to trace the "history"
      > of "Eckankar" all the way back to at
      > least 5,000 years B.C.
      >
      > And by doing so, I was also researching
      > "EK" and "HU" throughout history.
      >
      > Not exactly exclusive to "Eckankar."
      >
      > I think it is just a big psychological
      > circus that takes place, say, for an
      > example, at a major seminar. People
      > get all psychologically open to auto-
      > suggestion.
      >
      > If things go well, it is because of Harold.
      > If not, it is because the chela has not
      > been doing his or her "homework."
      >
      > Or they are being "tested" by the Kal.
      >
      > Or they are being "tested" by the ECK.
      >
      > Harold can dish it out both ways.
      > And eat the cake himself.
      >
      > Again, just like with most religions,
      > people stay with "Eckankar" out of
      > fear, not just fear of the "consequences" ,
      > but fear of the unknown - something
      > they are supposed to be conquering
      > BECAUSE of Eckankar!
      >
      > They can't because they are clinging
      > to the known world. Their little world
      > of "Super Normal" people.
      >
      > With alot of these people, most or
      > all of their "friends" are in Eckankar.
      >
      > What would they think? And the
      > idea of letting others "below" or
      > "beneath" them passing them up
      > in "initiations" !
      >
      > What could be worse than that?
      >
      > Or being "demoted" as a person
      > in any way?
      >
      > They give all their power to the
      > heirarchy.
      >
      > They are powerless to help themselves.
      > Not really, of course, but it is psychological.
      >
      > Whatever happened to power,
      > wisdom and freedom?
      >
      > The answer, my friend, is blowing
      > in the wind.
      >
      > But you knew that!
      >
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Thanks for sharing your
      > comments and the info
      > about these books!
      >
      > As far as "transcending
      > religion" it seems that this
      > is what we thought we were
      > doing when we joined the
      > "path" of Eckankar way back
      > when.
      >
      > Early on, Eckankar seemed
      > to have a certain mystique
      > about it. The reality, now,
      > is that it was never what we
      > imagined or desired. This
      > PT/HK consciousness is based
      > upon delusions, lies, and
      > manipulations frozen
      > in time as meaningless and
      > imagined experiences and
      > dreams via Klemp's over-
      > simplified and mind numbing
      > hypnotic message. This is
      > the "real" reason people fall
      > asleep during his talks! And,
      > there's No spiritual meat
      > (protein)!
      >
      > The Eckankar message is
      > merely a redundancy and
      > regurgitation of empty 2nd
      > and 4th Plane thoughts and
      > words.
      >
      > PT's Eckankar is a New Age/
      > Westernized rewrite of the
      > Eastern thoughts and dogmas
      > once borrowed and plagiarized
      > (compiled) from Sant Mat
      > religions (etc.), and from
      > more knowledgeable/
      > enlightened people by
      > the trickster Twitchell.
      >
      > HK's EK "path" has not only
      > become Christianized, but
      > has also been exposed as
      > just another "Feel Good"
      > religious sect that preaches
      > one thing and does another!
      > It's a Codependent scam!
      >
      > Thus, the Klemps' egos
      > are feeling pretty good
      > right now and the "trickle-
      > down effect" is still sustaining
      > their EK followers/sheep/
      > chickens in the same ways
      > as other religions work their
      > magic on the numb, dumb,
      > fearful, and superstitious
      > masses.
      >
      > Still, for Eckists who think
      > they can see beyond the
      > veil/void it's amazing to
      > see that they are quite
      > incapable of true change
      > and of discovering the
      > real path of TRUTH, and
      > of experiencing the art
      > of the obvious.
      >
      > Truth has escaped these
      > Eckists and they will forever
      > remain a pawn of the KAL
      > and under Klemp's trance
      > of providing "sales service."
      >
      > This, of course, benefits HK's
      > selfish motives, and, on the
      > other hand, it helps to give
      > Eckists a "higher" purpose.
      > This is why Klemp feels he
      > is doing no harm since it
      > provides of service for lost
      > Souls until they become advanced
      > enough to realize they don't
      > need a middleman.
      >
      > However, the "catch" lies
      > within the promises made
      > and the innate desire of
      > soul to "Know" God and to
      > return Home again. Eckankar
      > manipulates this desire with
      > "initiations" that are turned
      > into a KAL "Trap/Test."
      >
      > However, Not Desiring Initiations
      > (via a pure heart) is another
      > trap/test that has merely been
      > disguised while the "desire"
      > remains hidden from outer
      > sight. Thus, it seems to be
      > okay to "imagine" (and still
      > desire) higher initiations on
      > the "INNER" via the ruse of
      > needing a Mahanta for more
      > and more of these fake initiations
      > in order to expand consciousness
      > for more and more spiritual
      > progress.
      >
      > Eckists are chasing their tails
      > via Twitchell's and Klemp's
      > rendition of circular logic and
      > thinking. How can Self-Mastery
      > and Spiritual Freedom be accomplished
      > in THIS LIFETIME when Klemp
      > is training Eckists to become
      > more and more Codependent
      > upon the Mahanta and their
      > desires and attachments?
      >
      > Look at the ECK stories... they
      > all require the intercession and
      > help of the Mahanta. Eckists,
      > via self-hypnosis and programming,
      > (attachment) are being taught
      > to call upon the Mahanta for
      > anything and everything.. . but
      > where is Soul and where is the
      > ECK (Holy Spirit)? Just because
      > one mouthes certain "charged"
      > 4th Plane words or thinks he/
      > she is "detached" doesn't make
      > it so!
      >
      > What's interesting is that these
      > two Entities (Soul and Holy Spirit)
      > don't require money in order
      > to maintain (outer and Inner
      > initiations) a higher consciousness. ..
      > but Klemp does! Initiations aren't
      > needed! This is what structured
      > (Lower Plane) Hierarchies use in
      > order to control groups of people.
      > I'm amazed that Eckists can't or
      > don't want to see the correlation
      > and connect-the- dots.
      >
      > Why can't or won't Eckists connect-
      > the-dots? It probably has to do
      > with their feelings of being "Superior
      > Normal" and the delusion that
      > gives them "all the answers" in
      > order to alleviate their doubts
      > and fears. The ego makes a better
      > servant than it does a master,
      > but with "initiations" and a "RESA
      > hierarchy" Eckists can't separate
      > ego from Soul.
      >
      > Thus, when "Starting To Get It"
      > (a 6th, ESA, Staffer at the ESC)
      > writes what she did, in the 09/2009
      > H.I. Letter, one has to wonder...
      > What has Klemp been teaching
      > his followers since he's been
      > in charge?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > realbizarretarzs wrote:
      >
      > So true. I really enjoyed your
      > experiment.
      >
      > I used to do that sort of stuff
      > until it became more sad than
      > amusing.
      >
      > Also, a while back, I forgot
      > to mention the books of
      > Alan Watts, starting with
      > "The Way of Zen" and
      > "The Wisdom of Insecurity".
      >
      > The second title, of course,
      > is a paradox, but one that
      > makes sense without having
      > to go too far into the book
      > to see what he is talking about.
      >
      > One doesn't have to be necessarily
      > into Zen or even Buddhism to
      > understand where he was coming
      > from.
      >
      > His books are very easy to read
      > and are somewhat humorous.
      >
      > Interestingly, he obtained
      > a master's degree in theology
      > and "divinity" but went on to
      > write twenty to thirty books
      > on Zen and Indian and Chinese
      > philosophies, and the psychology
      > of religion, and the importance
      > of mysticism insofar as the
      > individual transcending man-
      > made religion.
      >
      > whitemoby wrote:
      >
      > Truth can never by systemized,
      > no matter how eloquently.
      >
      > Moby
      >
      > Rebazar Tarzs wrote:
      >
      > In the story, Joseph Knecht,
      > after following instructions
      > to the letter, but not losing
      > his intuition, begins to question
      > everything, and comes to
      > see "Castilia" (or, insert your
      > favorite or not-so-favorite
      > community Utopia) as a kind
      > of ivory tower, oblivious to
      > real life, and thus, reality.
      >
      > He begins to realize that,
      > after many years, and many
      > relationships, Castilia is a
      > self-protected society that
      > does little, if anything, for
      > the world outside its borders,
      > and is burderned by a hierarchy
      > of personalities and games
      > people play.
      >
      > I won't reveal any more than
      > this, in case someone is
      > currently reading "Magister
      > Ludi: The Glass Bead Game,"
      > but I will say this - throughout
      > the whole story, Bruce Willis
      > is dead.
      >
      > What?!?
      >
      > No, actually, the truth seeker,
      > Knecht (which, in German,
      > means servant and/or knight)
      > (or so the Germans would have
      > us believe) is, to the dumb-
      > foundment of his "superiors",
      > really looking for truth.
      >
      > No substitutes.
      >
      > I hope I didn't give away too
      > much, as the book is almost
      > 600 pages long, but, actually,
      > I haven't, because there is
      > so much truth in the story
      > that everytime I re-read it,
      > I realize something new.
      >
      > I know we used to say that
      > about certain ECK books
      > (before Harold) but the
      > stuff that Paul took from
      > others is timeless as well.
      >
      > What was kind of amusing
      > is that when I read the book
      > the first time, Darwin was
      > the "Master."
      >
      > One of the first main characters
      > in the story is the "Music Master."
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Here's a review from Amazon.com
      > of Magister Ludi, Master of the Game:
      >
      > "What is the Glass Bead Game?
      > It is no less than the highest
      > reason that an entire future
      > civilization exists. It is the
      > grand and ongoing synthesis
      > of all knowledge into a unified,
      > integrated whole (a Unio Mystica.)
      >
      > It is an attempt to forge a
      > holographic intellectual world
      > where all is interconnected and
      > reflected in every part. This is
      > a mission to weave the golden
      > thread of significance and meaning
      > through every part of a culture-
      > science and the arts and the
      > spiritual are all unified into a
      > system of concentric, interpenetrating
      > rings.
      >
      > All this is primarily accomplished
      > by using the language of music
      > and mathematics as common
      > universal symbolism (the "glass
      > beads" are part of a symbolic
      > physical aid that was once used
      > for this purpose.)
      >
      > It is no wonder that the book
      > places the first origins of the
      > game with Pythagoras, Gnostics,
      > and Socratic ethics. No wonder
      > that the League of Journeyers
      > to the East also figure prominently
      > in its development. To some
      > extent the Game has been the
      > goal of all sensitive and introspective
      > individuals and groups down
      > through the ages.
      >
      > All of this stands in stark contrast
      > to our own Feuilletonistic Age
      > where all knowledge, all culture,
      > is unsynthesized, chaotic, and
      > largely meaningless babble.
      >
      > The crisis that develops from
      > this is that even if you accomplish
      > this grand synthesis in some isolated
      > ivory tower refuge of intellectual
      > contemplatives- it isn't enough.
      >
      > It is necessary to reach out to the
      > entire society once it is achieved
      > in the same way that a Bodhisattva
      > attempts to enlighten the rest of
      > mankind instead of individually
      > passing onto Nirvana. The entire
      > society must be made whole and
      > sacred and not just an isolated elite.
      >
      > This is the realization that comes
      > even to the Magister Ludi, the
      > Master of the Game.
      >
      > For the game to be ultimately
      > meaningful we have to coach
      > everyone to eventually become
      > Masters."
      >
      **********************************
      >
      > Thus, another reason to justify religion!
      > Or, can this same thing (i.e. the inflow/
      > outflow principle) be accomplished without
      > the religious strings attached? Not by
      > Eckankar! ECKists have strings attached
      > to their membership donations or else
      > they can lose initiations!
      >
      > Prometheus
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