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4995Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: A Book of Circular Thinking?

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  • Rebazar Tarzs
    Oct 12, 2009
      "A person who is a fanatic in matters of religion,
      and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God
      and the universe, becomes a person who has no
      faith ... True faith is to let go, and become open to truth,
      whatever it might turn out  to be ... But at any rate,
      the point is that God is what nobody admits to being,
      and everybody really is."
       
      -  Alan Watts
       
      It seems that Shams of Tabriz a/k/a Shams-i-Tabriz
      a/k/a Shamus-i-Tabriz, was saying the same thing.
       
      There is one discourse in which Paul says that he didn't
      know any of the "ECK Masters" until after he translated.
       
      He was the "Mahanta" and didn't know it.
       
      In other words, he didn't need any help from middle men.  
       
      Rumi accepted him as a guide, as would any intelligent
      seeker of truth, although most of Rumi's followers thought
      he was crazy for doing so. Of course, he did was he thought
      was best.    
       
      As Paul once said, "One learns by being around one who knows."   

      --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Moby <whitemoby22@...> wrote:

      From: Moby <whitemoby22@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: A Book of Circular Thinking?
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 5:27 PM

       
      Paul Twitchell himself once said, "The most we can say about Truth is that is travels in a certain direction." And though he surely copied that from somewhere, it affected me nonetheless. Too bad Eckankar went on to define Truth and Freedom right out of existence.

      I didn't do that experiment to be cruel, but to actually confirm something for myself. Eckists (at least, many of them) have unconsciosly "attached" to some nebulous, self serving notion of "Eckankar". You cannot use reason against so blind a motivation.

      Alan Watts has long been on my reading list. I may just move him up in the rotation.

      Moby....

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Rebazar Tarzs <realbizarretarzs@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > So true. I really enjoyed your experiment.
      >  
      > I used to do that sort of stuff until it became 
      > more sad than amusing.
      >  
      > Also, a while back, I  forgot to mention the books of
      > Alan Watts, starting with "The Way of Zen" and
      > "The Wisdom of Insecurity".
      >  
      > The second title, of course, is a paradox, but one that
      > makes sense without having to go too far into the book
      > to see what he is talking about.
      >  
      > One doesn't have to be necessarily into Zen or even
      > Buddhism to understand where he was coming from.
      >  
      > His books are very easy to read and are somewhat humorous.
      >  
      > Interestingly, he obtained a master's degree in theology and
      > "divinity" but went on  to write twenty to thirty books on Zen
      > and Indian and Chinese philosophies, and the psychology
      > of religion, and the importance of mysticism insofar as the
      > individual transcending man-made religion.    
      >
      > --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Caldwell Jamie <whitemoby22@ ...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Caldwell Jamie <whitemoby22@ ...>
      > Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] A Book of Circular Thinking?
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
      > Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 3:26 PM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Truth can never by systemized, no matter how eloquently. 
      >  
      > Moby
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Rebazar Tarzs <realbizarretarzs@ yahoo.com>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
      > Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 9:17:05 AM
      > Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] A Book of Circular Thinking?
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In the story, Joseph Knecht, after following instructions to the letter, but not
      > losing his intuition, begins to question everything, and comes to see
      > "Castilia" (or, insert your favorite or not-so-favorite community Utopia)
      > as a kind of ivory tower, oblivious to real life, and thus, reality.
      >  
      > He begins to realize that, after many years, and many relationships,
      > Castilia is a self-protected society that does little, if anything, for the
      > world outside its borders, and is burderned by a heirarchy of personalities
      > and games people play.
      >  
      > I won't reveal any more than this, in case someone is currently reading
      > "Magister Ludi: The Glass Bead Game," but I will say this - throughout
      > the whole story, Bruce Willis is dead.
      >  
      > What?!?
      >  
      > No, actually, the truth seeker, Knecht (which, in German, means
      > servant and/or knight) (or so the Germans would have us believe)
      > is, to the dumbfoundment of his "superiors", really looking for truth.
      >  
      > No substitutes.
      >  
      > I hope I didn't give away too much, as the book is almost 600 pages
      > long, but, actually, I  haven't, because there is so much truth in the story
      > that everytime I re-read it, I realize something new.
      >  
      > I know we used to say that about certain ECK books (before Harold)
      > but the stuff that Paul took from others is timeless as well.
      >  
      > What was kind of  amusing is that when I read the book the first time,
      > Darwin was the "Master."
      >  
      > One of the first main characters in the story is the "Music Master."
      >  
      >  
      >  
      >   
      >
      > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@ yahoo.com>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] A Book of Circular Thinking?
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
      > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 11:07 PM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      > Here's a review from Amazon.com
      > of Magister Ludi, Master of the Game:
      >
      > "What is the Glass Bead Game?
      > It is no less than the highest
      > reason that an entire future
      > civilization exists. It is the
      > grand and ongoing synthesis
      > of all knowledge into a unified,
      > integrated whole (a Unio Mystica.)
      >
      > It is an attempt to forge a
      > holographic intellectual world
      > where all is interconnected and
      > reflected in every part. This is
      > a mission to weave the golden
      > thread of significance and meaning
      > through every part of a culture-
      > science and the arts and the
      > spiritual are all unified into a
      > system of concentric, interpenetrating
      > rings.
      >
      > All this is primarily accomplished
      > by using the language of music
      > and mathematics as common
      > universal symbolism (the "glass
      > beads" are part of a symbolic
      > physical aid that was once used
      > for this purpose.)
      >
      > It is no wonder that the book
      > places the first origins of the
      > game with Pythagoras, Gnostics,
      > and Socratic ethics. No wonder
      > that the League of Journeyers
      > to the East also figure prominently
      > in its development. To some
      > extent the Game has been the
      > goal of all sensitive and introspective
      > individuals and groups down
      > through the ages.
      >
      > All of this stands in stark contrast
      > to our own Feuilletonistic Age
      > where all knowledge, all culture,
      > is unsynthesized, chaotic, and
      > largely meaningless babble.
      >
      > The crisis that develops from
      > this is that even if you accomplish
      > this grand synthesis in some isolated
      > ivory tower refuge of intellectual
      > contemplatives- it isn't enough.
      >
      > It is necessary to reach out to the
      > entire society once it is achieved
      > in the same way that a Bodhisattva
      > attempts to enlighten the rest of
      > mankind instead of individually
      > passing onto Nirvana. The entire
      > society must be made whole and
      > sacred and not just an isolated elite.
      >
      > This is the realization that comes
      > even to the Magister Ludi, the
      > Master of the Game.
      >
      > For the game to be ultimately
      > meaningful we have to coach
      > everyone to eventually become
      > Masters."
      >
      > ************ ********* ********* ****
      >
      > Thus, another reason to justify religion!
      > Or, can this same thing (i.e. the inflow/
      > outflow principle) be accomplished without
      > the religious strings attached? Not by
      > Eckankar! ECKists have strings attached
      > to their membership donations or else
      > they can lose initiations!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >


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