4919Re: The EK Initiation Quagmire - More Service Required For Higher H.I.s
- Sep 14, 2009Hey Prometheus and all; I had to take a couple days to digest this post. I cannot believe that HIs have to pay for thier own updated training? OMG. That is tantamount to buying a higher initiation. And it is true what you say about each eck community being different. I used to travel a great deal, and knew 3 eck communites, in 3 separate cities, quite well. And yes, they each had their own distinct flavor. Very distinct.
Your comment about fatalism caught my eye. I have always believed that any teaching which is sant mat related, could easily become fatalistic in the psyche of the individual. And Eckankar is most certainly sant mat derivative.
> Hello Moby and All,
> Yes, every Eckist pretty much knows,
> or tries to find out, the initiation circle
> (level/number) of each Eckist they come
> in contact with.
> There used to be Circles of Initiation
> Workshops at major EK Seminars (mid
> 1980's) and these "Circles" Workshops
> were, also, encouraged for the RESAs
> to promote for Local EK Satsang (Chela)
> Events. Every level/circle of initiate had
> their own workshop to attend and I.D.s
> were checked at the door of each workshop.
> Now, Klemp has creatively "changed"
> his direction.
> The following is from the 09/2009
> The H.I. Letter (pg. 3)--
> "Worldwide Wind of Creativity
> In tune with the upcoming spiritual
> year, A Year of Creativity, you will find
> a fresh, new program awaiting High
> Initiates at the 2009 ECK Worldwide
> * an H.I. meeting Saturday morning
> that has a new look and heightened
> spiritual focus;
> * a special workshop for H.I.'s, offered
> both Friday and Saturday, centered on
> Sri Harold's HOLY FIRE of ECK Books--
> especially the latest volume, The Holy
> Fire of ECK, Book 3--with ample time
> to share insights with fellow Brothers
> of the Leaf.
> [Klemp gets to sell more-of-the-same
> (book 3) and makes 50% royalties from
> his books while he lets H.I.s "share"
> more-of-the-same as well!]
> * updated trainings--offered Only at
> Worldwide Seminars--for ECK Clerics,
> Initiators, and ESAs.
> [This helps to increase the seminar
> numbers ($$$) with the financial
> burden placed mostly upon the H.I.s
> who want that training in order to
> qualify for that next initiation. 5ths
> have to become "Clerics" to become
> eligible to become "Initiators," and 6ths,
> in order to become "ESAs" in order
> to become eligible for the 7th! Some
> 6ths (who are ESAs) get their 7ths by
> becoming RESAs since RESAs have to
> be at least a 7th.]
> With these new areas of emphasis, the
> H.I. GET-TOGETHER, SEVENTH Initiates
> Meeting, and EIGHTH Initiate Meeting
> are being Retired.
> [All H.I.s now have to rub shoulders
> and share EK speak with lower initiates
> as a means of SERVICE. Will HK and JK
> be rubbing shoulders and "connecting,"
> too, for the sake of SERVICE to "fellow
> Attendees," or is this just more lip SERVICE
> and DO AS I SAY AND NOT AS I DO for
> the Klemps? ]
> These changes will offer you New
> Spiritual Vistas and Opportunities
> to Connect with Fellow Attendees
> [1th-8th Circle Initiates] and Grow
> through SERVICE at the Seminar and
> as Leaders in our Creative and Vibrant
> ECK spiritual community." [END (my
> brackets and caps)]
> Anyway, Moby, I'll see if I can answer
> your questions below--
> whitemoby wrote:
> I enjoyed this post, prometheus.
> To my mind, "initiations" are one
> of the keys to understanding the
> eck mentality. I personally believe
> that klemp requires the last stage
> in the 9th initiation to be OUTER
> because this gives the corp more
> control. This gives the corp absolute
> control over the very few who will
> get beyond the 9th.
> I know, and saw for myself, that
> eck initiation levels WERE NOT
> kept hidden in eck communities.
> Believe me, everybody knew everybody's
> number, and each person was treated/
> respect accordingly. Oh yes, low level
> initiates were treated kindly, but it
> was a condescending kindness. Like,
> I'm so far above you - ain't I swell
> to be talking to you at all?
> Higher Initiates are held in regard
> inside the eckankar world. I saw it
> myself. But here are my two questions
> for prometheus, or anyone:
> #1 When a person gets up to the
> 5th initiation (or beyond), how do
> they explain to themselves that
> they're really no different than they
> ever were?
> P- People rationalize much of the
> time, and Klemp encourages his
> followers to imagine and to pretend
> "as if." Besides, look at the followers
> of other religions and how they follow
> and interpret dogma and rationalize
> as well. People, also, tend to follow
> local religious or spiritual experts
> they have placed trust in, or have
> put upon a pedestal, because they
> have direct contact with them versus
> the "Leader." A local Satsang area
> can look like a separate sect of that
> same religion depending upon the
> RESA. Over decades more dogma, rules,
> guidelines, and laws get added and
> "tweaked" which makes everything,
> Eckankar, more complex and more
> confusing. This causes Second Guessing
> and Imbalance and a NEED to have the
> Leader (HK) explain and reinterpret
> (over and over) the true meaning behind
> life and the confusion (of dogma) HK,
> himself, has revised and promoted.
> Thus, this Catch-22 ploy, of Klemp's,
> has created a necessary evil and a
> never-ending need for a "Living Master"
> in order for him to de-cypher and
> clarify the obvious.
> Have you ever seen any indication
> that high initiation levels confers
> any greater awareness, etc upon
> the initiate?
> P- Not per se! However, if a person
> is focused upon self-improvement
> and upon spiritual growth these goals
> will be achieved, in part and over time,
> with or without the help of a "Master,"
> or a religion to follow. The so-called
> "Master" just takes credit for what happens
> naturally when Soul is focused upon
> the Divine. This is the TRAP and the
> Catch-22 of all religious dogma.
> #2 Do eckists believe that higher
> initiate levels correspond to any
> improvement in their outer circumstances?
> P- Yes and No! Klemp takes credit for
> the "Good" that takes place in the lives
> of his followers. However, "true blue"
> Eckists Do Not want "good karma" because
> this too will hinder their spiritual growth.
> They want to be "above" and "without"
> karma in a vairag (nonattached/detached)
> state of mind. Yet, they don't want pain
> or troubles either. And, when there are
> problems they see these as "tests." NO
> where does Klemp, actually, Protect or
> Heal his chelas, except in chela's dreams
> and/or imaginations (and delusions),
> anymore than Jesus or the Virgin Mary,
> etc. etc do for other religious believers!
> Getting back to your question-- Many Eckists
> believe they have used up their "good karma,"
> for this lifetime, by finding Eckankar and, thus,
> don't expect prosperity. Most, therefore, have
> a poverty consciousness and a fatalistic attitude
> toward life. Eckists, also, have become very
> codependent upon Klemp and believe in his
> delusional promises. It's "The Easy Way,"
> for them, to accept a subservient position
> as a "follower" rather than take responsibility
> as SOUL. Thus, Eckists are no different from
> other faithful religious followers, except, in
> their minds!
> Do they believe that their lives become
> better in any worldly/material kinda way?
> P- They [Eckists] believe it by rationalizing.
> Success and materialism can be justified
> as a "divine gift" in order to reach a different
> social and/or intellectual group/class of people
> so that they can spread the "Word" as a vahana/
> missionary by being an example or a spokes-
> person... or as (temporary) good karma. And,
> their material/intellectual success is used by
> Klemp to attract more professionals to Eckankar.
> This gives HK's big fat ego an air of respectability
> (HK is in the International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
> Ninth edition). And, this, too, is used to prove/
> show that Eckankar is not a "dangerous" cult.
> Professionals, also, climb the initiation ladder
> faster than the average Eckist because they
> are more high profile, but appearances are
> very deceiving in this KAL like religion.
> Thanks, moby...
> prometheus wrote:
> > In Eckankar the First initiation is said
> > to, usually, come in The Dream State
> > by the end of the first year and the
> > Second initiation is a year later or after
> > two years of study. An Eckist has to ask
> > for the Second Initiation, but is forbidden
> > to ask for any others!
> > When do the other initiations come ?
> > How many are there ? These are just
> > two questions Eckankar avoids answering.
> > Here's what Klemp's EK Lexicon took
> > from Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary:
> > "INITIATION. The Basic sacrament in ECK;
> > the First Step on the Path of God via the
> > ECK; the structure upon the Whole Foundation
> > of the Spiritual Works are built; the Means
> > by which the Sacred Forces within the Individual
> > are Reactivated to Increase and Confer within
> > Soul the Awareness of the Supernatural state
> > of Life." [pg. 95]
> > It's interesting that PT mentions the "ECK"
> > and "Sacred Forces" and the "Individual" and
> > "Soul" while Not mentioning anything about
> > the Inner Master or the Mahanta!
> > "INNER INITIATION. Serves the function
> > of Raising the Vibrations of the individual
> > to those of the Nearest Higher Plane. THE
> > INNER INITIATION MAY COME YEARS BEFORE
> > THE OUTER INITIATION..."
> > It's wishful thinking that many 7ths see
> > themselves as 8ths (on the inner). What
> > else do they have? You can't blame them
> > for pretending "as if" they actually were
> > 8th initiates after 35-40 years!
> > "...The FIRST Initiation is an Inner Initiation
> > given in the Dream State by the Dream Master.
> > Sometimes a Chela is Fully Conscious and
> > can remember everything about it; it prepares
> > the Chela for the Linkup with the ECK Sound
> > Current, the Audible Life Stream. ALL INITIATIONS
> > ABOVE THE EIGHTH ARE INNER INITIATIONS."
> > [pg. 96]
> > BTW, this last statement (above) was added
> > to PT's definition by Klemp (compare it for
> > yourself). This is very strange since this EK
> > Lexicon was written in 1998 and The Masters
> > 4 Discourses, Lesson 2 was written in 1995.
> > In Lesson 2 Klemp states that the 9th initiation
> > has 3 Stages and the Third and Last Stage
> > is The OUTER Confirmation!
> > Thus, Klemp has contradicted himself by
> > saying that, "All initiations above the eighth
> > are inner initiations" when the Third and Final
> > Stage, of the 9th initiation, requires an "outer
> > confirmation."
> > However, there's even more confusion and
> > secrecy concerning initiations within Eckankar
> > as there is with other religions and groups.
> > The secrecy is meant to silence people (chelas)
> > from scrutinizing this phenomena and these
> > definitions and criteria more so. Actually,
> > Eckankar gives NO criteria for obtaining
> > initiations. Except, a chela must maintain
> > a current annual membership donation
> > ($$$).
> > Thus, a Requested annual donation amount
> > is Required for more EK initiations, and to
> > hold onto positions within the RESA Hierarchy.
> > What's interesting is that the 12th Initiation
> > is actually both Outer and Inner because
> > the LEM must physically approach and ask
> > a candidate if they would like to have the
> > initiation because it, too, requires outer
> > confirmation.
> > However, the 10th and the 11th Initiations
> > don't require any outer confirmations and
> > are (both) shorter in time that the First Initiation!
> > Why's that... convenience?
> > Then, of course, it requires an initiator who
> > has a Higher Initiation Number than the one
> > being given! Thus, Darwin had to be a 13th
> > or 14th to have given Klemp his 12th!
> > And, what level of initiation is Klemp claiming
> > to have at this time? The 14th is required
> > to be a Mahanta (as PT claims), but there
> > are, supposedly, more and more initiations.
> > So, what Initiation is Klemp holding onto
> > now (with a death grip)? Why is this such
> > a secret? Could it be that HK's a 666th Initiate
> > while most of his longtime H.I.s are 7ths!
> > BTW- Who was the 666th LEM? HK doesn't
> > even know how Shams died or who that
> > "Unknown" EK Master was! Why's that?
> > Prometheus
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