4906Re: HI books
- Sep 10, 2009Hello whitemoby and All,
I'll add my insights to the below
BTW-I'm thinking that postekcon
could share some interesting info
and insights as well.
Prometheus, thank you so much
for this post. It is fascinating to
hear about the org from someone
who was much more 'inside' than
I ever was. You have answered
questions that I've longed wondered
I take it that RESAs are NOT selected
based on any "spiritual" qualification/
unfoldment. They are selected because
they are "company men".
P- Yes! It was unfortunate, although,
understandable that these men and
women (RESAs) were/are so strict and
unbending. Actually, some RESAs are
very "spiritual," of sorts, but no more
than even some Lower and less active
Eckists. RESAs usually have the best
leadership skills, or they know how to
designate and of course they have that
"as if" Power working for them.
I had one RESA who was very intimidating
and anal. This person tried to "read" people's
thoughts and get into their minds. You'd turn
around and have them staring at you, or when
speaking to them they would be staring at
you strangely. They tried it on me and I saw
them do this to others... often. Of course
when they did this psychic technique they
would wrinkle their brow ever so slightly,
and definitely never smile. It was funny
because one day I saw a person (a very low
initiate) switch it around on them! That
made it even funnier!
SO...then how are Initiations decided upon?
Who gets them, and why?
P- Wow! Those are tough questions
that need to be answered by more questions
in order to determine if the Eckist is qualified
for another initiation, especially, "High" ones.
First, one has to be well grounded in the EK
Has the person been in Satsang classes or
been a trained Arahata? Does the person
attend the EWS and participate (or lead) small
and large group discussions? Does the person
volunteer to do intros, etc.? Does the person
hold a local position within the RESA hierarchy?
Has the person had all of the trainings?
Is the person current (and has always been
current) on their EK membership? Does
the person talk about Darwin (not so
important now)? Does the person talk
about psychic things or gossips or is
negative, swears, smokes, and drinks
alcohol? Is the candidate critical of the
stories in EK pubs? Does the person
talk the talk... it's all about the Mahanta's
luv... man! Is the person known to other
H.I.s, or is a friend of the RESA?
Thus, the tri-monthly initiation list
(based upon unbroken membership
time) is generated at the ESC and is sent
to the RESAs for their input (approval).
If the RESAs don't know the candidate
they will call a local H.I. contact and ask
them questions about the candidate, or
for a yes or no approval. If "no" the H.I.
has to explain why. Generally, the ESC
will accept the initiation approvals of
the RESAs, although, I've heard of people
being rejected or of never having their
names sent out due to computer glitches.
Thus, one could call the ESC and have
a printout of when (dates) they received
each of their previous (and current) initiations
and have this sent to them. This way one's
file gets updated and corrected if there
Anyway, it's very different, now, under Klemp.
And, it's not like he couldn't make 300 more
7ths, and 150 more 8ths, and 15 more 9ths
and one 12th. Maybe Joan will get her 12th
this October, 2009.
I have a friend who told me that she
got Inititation #2 and #3 very quickly
(she was working working working for
eckankar in those days).
She told me that she never got her #4
because she quit going to all eck activities,
even tho she maintained her membership.
Do you believe this?
P- Yes! The above criteria shows the
hoops that Eckists, now, need to jump
through! This is how Klemp has "slowed"
down the initiation process. Why? Because
he's selfish and a narcissist. He wants to
remain the B.M.O.C. by being several levels
above everyone else. It's all about Power,
Control, and Ego while smiling and talking
the talk about the Mahanta's luvvvvv!
BTW, I would be more than happy to
purchase any HI books from anybody
out there willing to sell them.
P- The Holy Fire of ECK, Book 1,
pages 22-23, talks about The
Contemplative Order. More EKists
should join this Order. Klemp,
at times, will use this "Order"
as punishment and for reorientation.
HK told Ford to "Contemplate upon
the Shariyat for one year" when
he brought up Graham's dream
of being given the "Rod" to hold
by a Silent One.
> Hello Moby,
> I'll try to answer your H.I. questions
> whitemoby wrote:
> Prometheus, I was looking through
> an eckankar catalogue that a friend
> Why are there some books that are
> only for HI's?
> P- The H.I. Only Books are used
> in two ways. One way is to create
> a separation between H.I.s & Chelas
> and to instill mystery and a desire
> to become an H.I. to expand one's
> consciousness. It's another carrot
> being dangled. The other reason
> is to have books that address leadership
> issues and concerns while encouraging
> H.I.s to hang in there even though
> Klemp slowed those initiations
> down long ago. Thus, positions
> and titles have become more important
> and powerful than higher initiation
> Why can't others order them?
> P- Well, one could have an H.I. friend
> order the H.I. Only Books in their name
> for you, or share their library of H.I.
> books with you, especially, if you
> happen to be a 4th (almost a H.I.).
> Or, if one is married to or dating a
> H.I. one could probably read those.
> What is so secret?
> P- The business side of Eckankar!
> It's like reading the chela page of
> the local EK newsletter versus the
> public page.
> Actually, from what I've read Klemp
> will sometimes say more outrageous
> things in the Mystic World or the
> Letter of Light. Remember Klemp's
> instructions to H.I.s Only in the
> 12/2005 H.I. Letter where he said
> Not to use "if, and, but" with other
> H.I.s and then uses BUT (the worst
> of the three) in following EK pubs.
> Have you ever seen any of the HI books?
> P- I used to have all of them until
> I quit by letting my membership lapse.
> I, then, threw all my H.I. Books away.
> The H.I. Leadership Book and Workbook
> were interesting in that Klemp stuck
> his foot in his mouth all through
> the book. He tried to get bad (H.I.)
> behaviour under control by telling
> H.I.s to rat on others to the RESA.
> Of course, many times, the RESA
> was part of the problem since they
> couldn't or didn't want to control their
> H.I.s, or it was the crazy (Nazi) RESA
> causing the problems. In that case
> one could contact the ESC... but
> whose side or word do you think
> HK will take? Klemp was about 15
> years too late with that book because
> the damage had been done. We tried
> to tell him and begged, years earlier,
> that he write this book. However,
> most of the time many RESAs do
> what they want anyway and turn a
> blind-eye to much of what is happening
> behind their backs and the ESC's.
> Klemp, usually, never finds out when
> his guidelines aren't being followed
> since each RESA's area is run differently
> and reports to the ESC can be less
> than honest and absent of details.
> Many reports tend to omit quite
> a lot of info that the ESC would
> like to track. Intro numbers (attendance)
> are fudged, and Satsang attendance
> records are overlooked. It used to be
> that one was kicked out of the class
> if they missed three classes! Now, the
> Arahata is happy if anyone shows up...
> and extra happy if they have read
> the lesson... and ecstatic if they
> actually brought the (correct)
> discourse lesson with them!
> Also, how are RESA's chosen?
> P- By Klemp. The RESA Hierarchy
> started in 1985-87... I forget
> exactly. Some of those first ones
> are still in power as the RESA of
> that state/country. Bob Lawton
> is one of these first RESAs. After
> that the new RESAs are usually
> recommended to Klemp by the
> one stepping down. They are
> asked to make a three year
> commitment, although, their
> position is reviewed yearly as
> are the EK Board members at
> the ESC and locally. Klemp has
> the power to hire and fire anyone,
> anywhere, at anytime without
> Board permission. The RESA
> can do the same and peck those
> under them.
> Does harold have to choose them
> P- He usually does, but everyone
> has a file on them at the ESC.
> Thus, he'll have his staff ask around
> about people, read their file, and
> take to heart the recommendation
> of the RESA stepping aside. He'll
> also interview them, ahead of time,
> if he can.
> thanks, moby...
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