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4709Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From JUPITER!

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Jun 10, 2009
      Prometheus,

      I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -
      ever since I started researching & posting
      as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was
      it 2005-2007? I think it was some time
      around there.

      It's a big question mark, to me, about
      whatever happened to Gail's involvement
      with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence
      for so many years? However, I don't think
      Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a
      mystery anymore, either, whether or not
      she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I
      believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that
      she was not any longer active. Instead of
      going into the details about this, my recoll-
      ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell
      the story in her own time, in her own way.

      About how many books Paul Twitchell
      finished before 1966, I think I see your
      point.

      Etznab


      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:06 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From
      JUPITER!








      Hello Etznab,

      At one time Twitchell was a high ranking

      member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron

      was his original source of "compiled" info

      on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's

      handed-down source since he tends to use

      other people (usually dead) as inspiration

      for his "EK wisdom."



      As far as Marman goes...
      he speculates...

      a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



      Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who

      inspired him to take his piles of "research"

      and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963

      when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame

      GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's

      had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's

      kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must

      be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role

      by thinking she'd helped people who were

      desperate to believe in something more than

      what they had with their former orthodox

      religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and

      other cult-like religions can say and do the

      same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent

      than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's

      new buds. Gail should do the right thing and

      jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could

      even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and

      post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or

      Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to

      clear her conscience and protect those Souls

      whom she helped to delude.



      BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say

      that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang

      manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.

      Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/

      written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,

      a book of poetry?
      0D


      Prometheus



      Etznab wrote:

      About life on Jupiter, I wondered where Paul

      Twitchell got that idea? Was it from an actual

      experience? or something he heard / read?



      For some reason I thought about Scientology.

      I then searched for keywords Scientology &

      from Jupiter.



      ESKIMOS ON JUPITER



      L. Ron Hubbard described Scientology as the science

      of "knowing how to know". The idea is that "auditing"

      can raise your abilities to the point where you "know"

      something directly rather than having to discover it

      or learn it. He spoke authoritatively about life in the

      solar system. He claimed that Jupiter was inhabited

      by people who looked like Eskimos. You can hear him

      say it at:



      http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram



      http://www.skeptictank.org/cossumfl.htm



      Coincidence?



      I'd bet that Paul Twitchell was not the only person, and

      certainly not the first, to write of life on other planets. I

      believe Twitchell and Hubbard were both science fiction

      writers for a time.



      Etznab



      Prometheus,

      You illustrated:



      I don't see how Klemp "got it" that the



      5th ARYAN ROOT RACE came before the



      1st POLARIAN ROOT RACE and, especially,



      that man was "placed here by colonists



      from JUPITER." This is another dirty little




      secret that EK VAHANAS can't speak of!



      Another dirty little secret is that ECKists



      are expected to "serve."



      That was a good point, I thought. Because



      legends, myths, fables and folktales are part



      of organized religious dogma, IMO. And if not



      in the beginning, they seep in over time when



      people speculate about what they read, and /



      or what they were told. Fiction and pseudo



      (man-made) religion / history are a part of the



      organized religion legacy, too (IMO). However



      when the latter gets taken literally, as if true &



      actually happened I believe people have every



      right to challenge such allegations.



      Here are some examples. The early manu-



      scripts of Dialogues With The Master and The



      Tiger's Fang were written around mid to later



      1950's (reportedly). Today the Eckankar books



      by those names feature Rebazar Tarzs.



      These are examples about truth vs. fiction -



      not because I absolutely know all the details -



      but because the subject is "suspicious" and



      /or requires additional scrutiny, IMO.



      Paul Twitchell had associations with Kirpal



      Singh round about the mid 50s when the two



      manuscripts were reportedly written.

      0A

      In 1963, I believe, Paul Twitchell took his



      "wife to be" to get initiated by Kirpal Singh.



      In one of your past posts (I don't have the #



      or date) you wrote:



      "Kirpal Singh initiated Paul Twitchell in 1955 on



      his first visit to the United States. Kirpal came



      back to the U.S. on two other visits. The second



      was in 1963-64 and the third was in 1972."



      I think that information was mentioned in Ford



      Johnson's book, too.



      Consider what Doug Marman gave back around



      the year 2000:



      ".... Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957, but



      did nothing with the book until he offered it to



      Kirpal Singh in 1963. Paul wrote Dialogues



      With The Master around 1956, from the refer-



      ences I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.



      Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but



      didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion



      Magazine series. This pattern is similar to Paul's



      writing of The Far Country in 1963, which wasn't



      published until 1970."



      [Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]



      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Six.htm



      I find the Rebazar Tarzs history controversial be-



      cause Paul includes him in the two book
      s. One of



      them written one year after being initiated by Kirpal



      Singh.



      Also, the Tiger's Fang manuscript sent to Kirpal



      Singh in 1963 and the number of paragraphs in



      Eckankar books mirroring what Julian Johnson



      wrote in 1939. In some places apparently "spoken"



      by Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell.



      Although I don't absolutely know all the details,



      since I have not necessarily seen the early manu-



      scripts (before revisions and additions of Eckankar



      terms), I did take note of the fact that Kirpal Singh



      reportedly DID RETURN the Tiger's Fang manuscript.



      And it might possibly have been in the possession



      of Eckankar for a number of years.



      According to Kirpal Singh?



      "Later he sent me another letter, 'Return my book,



      The Tiger's Fang.' I returned his book. That was dict-



      ated by me on the inner planes, and that's all right.



      He changed that book before printing; where he men-



      tioned my name, he changed it to another guru's name."



      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm



      My point is not necessarily whether Kirpal Singh



      dictated and / or should have any credit for the book.



      MY POINT IS THAT HE APPARENTLY RETURNED



      THE TIGER'S FAN
      G MANUSCRIPT - AND YEARS



      BEFORE ECKANKAR PUBLISHED THE BOOK BY



      THAT NAME!



      Was the name Rebazar Tarzs featured in the early



      manuscript? Eckankar should know that answer,



      if it has the manuscript in its possession.



      There has been controversy over when the name of



      Rebazar Tarzs first appeared in print. The popular date



      I saw was 1964. However, if one were to search for an



      illustrated Rebazar Tarzs history prior to that, where is



      the evidence for it? Is it in that early The Tiger's Fang



      manuscript? Pre-1963? Was the name Rebazar Tarzs



      given in the first Letter to Gail in December 1962? Was



      it in the original Dialogues With The Master manuscript?



      If these documents are in the possession of Eckankar



      it could settle a lot of controversy (IMO) about who



      came to Paul Twitchell? and exactly when?



      *************************************************************



      Those were examples because I have mostly seen



      the later revised versions of Eckankar books and don't



      have access to (haven't seen) all the earlier history.



      If it ever turns out true, beyond a reasonable doubt,



      that Kirpal Singh once appeared where Rebazar Tarzs



      does now - in Paul Twitchell's writings - then I wo
      uld



      have a case for saying that something "seeped in" to



      the written works of Paul Twitchell over time.



      I've seen multiple apparent timelines for Rebazar T.



      One that has him appearing after Paul met Gail. And



      in 1963 when Paul started writing The Far Country.



      Why are there so many paragraphs by Rebazar T.



      (in The Far Country) similar to what appears in The



      Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson? The ones in



      Johnson's book are closer to what Kirpal Singh may



      have endorsed, and Gail was reportedly initiated into



      that path in 1963. So ...?



      Of course, for verifiable evidence, one would have to



      have the early Dialogues With The Master, The Tiger's



      Fang and original Letters to Gail to confirm what is the



      name that appears. Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs, etc.



      I have asked about all of those, at E.S.C. and A.R.E.



      Before that, I may have inquired at the original The Truth-



      Seeker Bulletin Board. I asked current and former Eck-



      ists. Even long-time members from the early days.



      Good questions Prometheus. I think you have a right



      to have the truth.



      I would call this a certain form of being a vahana.



      Etznab








      0D
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