4709Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From JUPITER!
- Jun 10, 2009Prometheus,
I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -
ever since I started researching & posting
as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was
it 2005-2007? I think it was some time
It's a big question mark, to me, about
whatever happened to Gail's involvement
with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence
for so many years? However, I don't think
Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a
mystery anymore, either, whether or not
she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I
believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that
she was not any longer active. Instead of
going into the details about this, my recoll-
ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell
the story in her own time, in her own way.
About how many books Paul Twitchell
finished before 1966, I think I see your
From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:06 pm
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From
At one time Twitchell was a high ranking
member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron
was his original source of "compiled" info
on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's
handed-down source since he tends to use
other people (usually dead) as inspiration
for his "EK wisdom."
As far as Marman goes...
a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!
Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who
inspired him to take his piles of "research"
and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963
when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame
GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's
had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's
kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must
be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role
by thinking she'd helped people who were
desperate to believe in something more than
what they had with their former orthodox
religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and
other cult-like religions can say and do the
same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent
than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's
new buds. Gail should do the right thing and
jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could
even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and
post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or
Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to
clear her conscience and protect those Souls
whom she helped to delude.
BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say
that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang
manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.
Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/
written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,
a book of poetry?
About life on Jupiter, I wondered where Paul
Twitchell got that idea? Was it from an actual
experience? or something he heard / read?
For some reason I thought about Scientology.
I then searched for keywords Scientology &
ESKIMOS ON JUPITER
L. Ron Hubbard described Scientology as the science
of "knowing how to know". The idea is that "auditing"
can raise your abilities to the point where you "know"
something directly rather than having to discover it
or learn it. He spoke authoritatively about life in the
solar system. He claimed that Jupiter was inhabited
by people who looked like Eskimos. You can hear him
say it at:
I'd bet that Paul Twitchell was not the only person, and
certainly not the first, to write of life on other planets. I
believe Twitchell and Hubbard were both science fiction
writers for a time.
I don't see how Klemp "got it" that the
5th ARYAN ROOT RACE came before the
1st POLARIAN ROOT RACE and, especially,
that man was "placed here by colonists
from JUPITER." This is another dirty little
secret that EK VAHANAS can't speak of!
Another dirty little secret is that ECKists
are expected to "serve."
That was a good point, I thought. Because
legends, myths, fables and folktales are part
of organized religious dogma, IMO. And if not
in the beginning, they seep in over time when
people speculate about what they read, and /
or what they were told. Fiction and pseudo
(man-made) religion / history are a part of the
organized religion legacy, too (IMO). However
when the latter gets taken literally, as if true &
actually happened I believe people have every
right to challenge such allegations.
Here are some examples. The early manu-
scripts of Dialogues With The Master and The
Tiger's Fang were written around mid to later
1950's (reportedly). Today the Eckankar books
by those names feature Rebazar Tarzs.
These are examples about truth vs. fiction -
not because I absolutely know all the details -
but because the subject is "suspicious" and
/or requires additional scrutiny, IMO.
Paul Twitchell had associations with Kirpal
Singh round about the mid 50s when the two
manuscripts were reportedly written.
In 1963, I believe, Paul Twitchell took his
"wife to be" to get initiated by Kirpal Singh.
In one of your past posts (I don't have the #
or date) you wrote:
"Kirpal Singh initiated Paul Twitchell in 1955 on
his first visit to the United States. Kirpal came
back to the U.S. on two other visits. The second
was in 1963-64 and the third was in 1972."
I think that information was mentioned in Ford
Johnson's book, too.
Consider what Doug Marman gave back around
the year 2000:
".... Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957, but
did nothing with the book until he offered it to
Kirpal Singh in 1963. Paul wrote Dialogues
With The Master around 1956, from the refer-
ences I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.
Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but
didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion
Magazine series. This pattern is similar to Paul's
writing of The Far Country in 1963, which wasn't
published until 1970."
[Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]
I find the Rebazar Tarzs history controversial be-
cause Paul includes him in the two book
s. One of
them written one year after being initiated by Kirpal
Also, the Tiger's Fang manuscript sent to Kirpal
Singh in 1963 and the number of paragraphs in
Eckankar books mirroring what Julian Johnson
wrote in 1939. In some places apparently "spoken"
by Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell.
Although I don't absolutely know all the details,
since I have not necessarily seen the early manu-
scripts (before revisions and additions of Eckankar
terms), I did take note of the fact that Kirpal Singh
reportedly DID RETURN the Tiger's Fang manuscript.
And it might possibly have been in the possession
of Eckankar for a number of years.
According to Kirpal Singh?
"Later he sent me another letter, 'Return my book,
The Tiger's Fang.' I returned his book. That was dict-
ated by me on the inner planes, and that's all right.
He changed that book before printing; where he men-
tioned my name, he changed it to another guru's name."
My point is not necessarily whether Kirpal Singh
dictated and / or should have any credit for the book.
MY POINT IS THAT HE APPARENTLY RETURNED
THE TIGER'S FAN
G MANUSCRIPT - AND YEARS
BEFORE ECKANKAR PUBLISHED THE BOOK BY
Was the name Rebazar Tarzs featured in the early
manuscript? Eckankar should know that answer,
if it has the manuscript in its possession.
There has been controversy over when the name of
Rebazar Tarzs first appeared in print. The popular date
I saw was 1964. However, if one were to search for an
illustrated Rebazar Tarzs history prior to that, where is
the evidence for it? Is it in that early The Tiger's Fang
manuscript? Pre-1963? Was the name Rebazar Tarzs
given in the first Letter to Gail in December 1962? Was
it in the original Dialogues With The Master manuscript?
If these documents are in the possession of Eckankar
it could settle a lot of controversy (IMO) about who
came to Paul Twitchell? and exactly when?
Those were examples because I have mostly seen
the later revised versions of Eckankar books and don't
have access to (haven't seen) all the earlier history.
If it ever turns out true, beyond a reasonable doubt,
that Kirpal Singh once appeared where Rebazar Tarzs
does now - in Paul Twitchell's writings - then I wo
have a case for saying that something "seeped in" to
the written works of Paul Twitchell over time.
I've seen multiple apparent timelines for Rebazar T.
One that has him appearing after Paul met Gail. And
in 1963 when Paul started writing The Far Country.
Why are there so many paragraphs by Rebazar T.
(in The Far Country) similar to what appears in The
Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson? The ones in
Johnson's book are closer to what Kirpal Singh may
have endorsed, and Gail was reportedly initiated into
that path in 1963. So ...?
Of course, for verifiable evidence, one would have to
have the early Dialogues With The Master, The Tiger's
Fang and original Letters to Gail to confirm what is the
name that appears. Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs, etc.
I have asked about all of those, at E.S.C. and A.R.E.
Before that, I may have inquired at the original The Truth-
Seeker Bulletin Board. I asked current and former Eck-
ists. Even long-time members from the early days.
Good questions Prometheus. I think you have a right
to have the truth.
I would call this a certain form of being a vahana.
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