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4522Re: "Paul Twitchell played jokes on us."

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Mar 1, 2009
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      Etznab and Mishmisha,

      I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through
      yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar
      was a fraud.

      As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another
      emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't
      sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was
      based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.

      Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is
      another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in
      something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't
      recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
      regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things
      and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.

      Jonathan



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
      <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you Etznab and Mishmash for your comments.
      >
      > I wouldn't call this individual at the Eck center a "bad person"
      > because he didn't intend to annoy me. He had no idea he was in the
      > beginning stages of really upsetting me. Plus, I was a member too
      at
      > that time. He probabaly was assuming that I would agree with him.
      >
      > But it shows what 100% faith in a religion and/or spiritual master
      > does to people. I have always used one term that you did Mish, and
      > that is "delusional." These people really are living in their own
      > world. In my previous posts I have called it their "self-created
      > Eckankar World" or I say they are giving their "alternative
      universe
      > explanation" for something.
      >
      > In my last months in Eckankar I found it increasingly difficult to
      > deal with people like this. It almost got so bad that when I went
      to
      > the Eck center I felt like I was in an insane asylum or something.
      I
      > just couldn't handle it anymore.
      >
      > I also don't believe that every member of Eckankar is as severe as
      > this guy. This person believes in Eckankar 100%. I've met quite a
      few
      > others like this, but there are some in Eckankar who are not this
      > serious in their devotion to Eckankar and it's masters.
      >
      > Also, this person started talking about Doug Marman and how "Doug
      > explained everything" as a reaction to something that I said. I
      don't
      > remember exactly what I said, but I don't remember it being a
      severe
      > anti-Eckankar statement either.
      >
      > Dredging up this memory of this interection with this guy caused
      > several emotions to come to the surface today:
      > 1. My astonishment that someone could actually think like this guy
      in
      > his blind support for Eckankar/LEMs.
      > 2. Resentment that this guy thought I was stupid enough to believe
      > and accept his explanation that Paul was just "joking" and that
      this
      > somehow made Paul's lies "OK" or acceptable. After that, I felt the
      > same resentment against Paul Twitchell.
      > 3. Sadness and betrayal that Eckankar had perpetuated all of its
      > various lies on me.
      > 4. Anger at myself for being so stupid to have believed almost all
      of
      > Eckankar's lies.
      >
      > So I have had a busy day going through all of these emotions. But I
      > am feeling better now.
      >
      > Etznab, in another branch of this thread you wrote:
      > "My question is this: If Paul didn't go to Paris,
      > France, then where and when did he meet his
      > first Eck Master in the physical? Sudar Singh?
      > Has Eckankar Inc. ever clarified this question
      > which naturally arises? I don't know that it has."
      >
      > All I can say is that Eckankar doesn't clarify much of anything.
      The
      > main reason is if they do the entire "Eckankar story" will quickly
      > unravel. I believe Ford Johnson mentioned this in "Confessions."
      >
      > Also, just a general comment, I have no idea whether Doug Marman
      said
      > that Paul's story of Paris, France versus Paris, Kentucky was a
      joke
      > perpetuated by Paul. It's possible that this was this guy's
      > interpretation of what Doug said. Too bad we don't have an "expert"
      > on Doug's book. At this point in time I don't think I would have
      the
      > patience to read it.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > >
      > > I really like that you shared this experience with us.
      > > I've wondered why eckists when learning the "truth"
      > > still stand by the teachings and the l.e.m. . . . I've
      > > thought about this a lot since reading your post
      > > yesterday. I feel really sad because it clearly points
      > > to the fact that eckists are delusional and follow the
      > > eck teachings and its master blindly. When people do
      > > that sort of thing, to put total faith and trust into
      > > something or someone, it can be so very dangerous--
      > > dangerous not to use one's head in other words. Laughing
      > > it off is just plain crazy! I wonder how many of these eckists
      > > today who are laughing and "joking" along with PT and
      > > Doug Marman ever met or knew PT in the real? It seems
      > > really odd to put one's faith with someone who has been
      > > long dead and basically obscure but for the few who have
      > > found eckankar. And Doug Marman? Well, I don't think
      > > much of a man who continues to put spins around the truth
      > > to continue the lies . . . and of course, Harold Klemp is
      > > in my opinion a bigger fraud and liar than PT. He knows
      > > the truth, but prefers to have title and money at the expense
      > > of his eck followers . . .
      > >
      > > Etznab, loved your posts too! You said it very well in regards
      > > to what else are lies--the eck masters, meeting Sudar, etc. and
      > > also pointing out where the responsibility of truth lies!
      > >
      > > Great posts! Thank you both!
      > >
      > > Mish
      > >
      > > --- In
      > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
      > > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > All,
      > > >
      > > > I made this original post before I went to bed, but now that it
      > is
      > > > morning I thought that I would explain my view of this
      situation
      > a
      > > > little bit more clearly.
      > > >
      > > > As this guy was saying this to me I was thinking to
      myself "Wow,
      > this
      > > > guy is heartless." I found his words to be very disturbing. It
      > wasn't
      > > > until I was driving home and started to really think about it
      > that I
      > > > started to get angry.
      > > >
      > > > But this situation is just one more example of how I was
      starting
      > to
      > > > wake up as to what was really going on in Eckankar. How Eckists
      > will
      > > > go to any lenghth to exonerate Paul Twitchell from being a liar.
      > > >
      > > > Jonathan
      > > >
      > > > --- In
      > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
      > > > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > All,
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm going to vent a little bit. I'm going to tell a short
      story
      > > > about
      > > > > something that happened at the local Eck center.
      > > > >
      > > > > In my last year in Eckankar I was at the Eck center. I was in
      a
      > > > > person-to-person talk with a guy there about Doug Marman's
      > book. I
      > > > > wasn't very familiar with the book then and I am still not
      very
      > > > > familiar with the book.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm not sure what prompted this person's words, but he
      > mentioned
      > > > that
      > > > > Doug spoke about the fact that debunkers of Eckankar have
      been
      > > > > criticising Paul and saying that Twitchell's sister was never
      > in
      > > > > Paris, France. In other words, he was saying that the
      debunkers
      > > > were
      > > > > saying that Paul lied.
      > > > >
      > > > > And then this guy said that Doug pointed out that Paul's
      sister
      > was
      > > > > actually at art school in Paris, Kentucky, not Paris, France.
      > and
      > > > > that Paul had simply played a joke on all of us. And that
      this
      > fact
      > > > > somehow made everthing OK. This guy then went into uproarous
      > > > laughter
      > > > > saying "Isn't that funny?" Then he laughed some more.
      > > > >
      > > > > I may have cracked a small smile just to be polite and go
      along
      > > > with
      > > > > him. But as I was driving home and thinking about this I
      simply
      > got
      > > > > more and more angry. I even said directly to Paul "No, Paul,
      I
      > > > don't
      > > > > think it's funny. You lied to us. Doesn't that mean anything
      to
      > > > you?"
      > > > >
      > > > > So my point is, this person (Paul Twitchell) writes an
      > > > autobiography,
      > > > > misleading everybody to think his sister was in art school in
      > > > Paris,
      > > > > France, and then when we members of Eckankar find out the
      truth
      > we
      > > > > are supposed to just think that it is funny? Just laugh it
      off?
      > It
      > > > > really shows how sick these Eckists really are and how sick
      > Paul
      > > > > Twitchell really was.
      > > > >
      > > > > Jonathan
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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