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4283Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Is Rebazar Tarz Tibetan, Indian, Pakistani or Afghani

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Jan 13, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      "Perhaps, the fictional character, and Master, Rebazar
      Tarzs, actually represents the Potential of everyone's
      inner Self (Soul). Thus, the stories about Rebazar,
      along with the conversations (like in "Stranger By
      The River"), are merely fables."

      Have you ever wondered if that is not what
      the L.E.M. is, too? "the Potential of everyone's
      inner Self (Soul)." ?

      I'm curious if history began to include "certain
      persons only" because they were knowledgeable
      about this very simple and basic axiom? And also
      because not everybody else "could" believe it?

      Once one person is set up above everyone
      else, it seems to me, that, in itself, could serve
      to limit the potential for Soul's spiritual unfold-
      ment to the higher levels.

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 8:01 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Is Rebazar Tarz Tibetan,
      Indian, Pakistani or Afghani



      Hello Jonathan,

      I agree, Rebazar is Not "Tibetan," nor a "Lama,"

      as Twitch had claimed. The Dalai Lama, and

      other lamas, and Buddhist Monks, look Asian

      or part Asian, and Rebazar Does Not! You've

      made some very good points!



      I think that the ECKist you spoke to about

      Rebazar Not looking Tibetan got very defensive

      because she (unconsciously) had to protect herself

      from the Truth. If not, her imaginary=2
      0world might

      have developed fractures in its foundation. And

      then what?! She isn't ready to explore any "what

      ifs," or to open herself up to any drastic changes

      toward higher levels of consciousness. ECKists

      can't think out of the box because that would

      entail a Freedom of Will and Thought versus blindly

      accepting and following myth and dogma.



      Perhaps, the fictional character, and Master, Rebazar

      Tarzs, actually represents the Potential of everyone's

      inner Self (Soul). Thus, the stories about Rebazar,

      along with the conversations (like in "Stranger By

      The River"), are merely fables.



      I'll have to repost Twitchell's descriptions of his

      ECK Masters, unless, I can find the post in the

      archives. The descriptions given in "Difficulties

      Of Becoming The Living ECK Master" are much

      different than what Klemp gives and are very

      different from the sketches that are offered for

      sale, as well as, the ones on display at The Temple

      of EK and at EK Centers.



      Prometheus



      Jonathan Wrote:

      I quit Eckankar in December of 2008. A little while before this I was

      at the local Eck center and I decided to "test the waters" as far as

      people there being able to tolerate divergent opinions. I was in a

      group of people and I guess we were talking about Rebazar or

      something when I asked "If Rebazar is from Tibet then why=2
      0doesn't he

      look Tibetan?" I then added "Tibetans look like Chinese. Rebazar

      looks like he is from India." But then one hard-liner Eckist snapped

      at me "Tibetans look like Indians!" I didn't say anything back

      because I knew it was futile. It would be like talking to a brick

      wall.



      What I would have said to her had I wanted to continue our argument

      is "Did you ever look at the magazine "National Geographic? If you

      would do that, you would see that I am correct. Tibetans look like

      Chinese." For those of you reading this, you can prove my assertion

      that Tibetans look Chinese by going to Google.com and searching for

      images for "Tibetan man" or Tibetan woman." You'll see that they look

      Chinese.



      But I decided to take this a little further and conduct my own little

      research project on this. I have had a lot of friends from foreign

      countries over the years. During that time I discovered that people

      in Asia and Southeast Asia can distinguish each other just by the way

      they look. For example, Japanese know what Koreans look like. Chinese

      know what Filipinos look like. Thais know what Burmese look like.

      This is determined just by the other person's appearance and it has

      nothing to do with the clothes they are wearing.



      So I postulated to myself "I wonder whether Indians can distinguish

      between Indians, Pakistanis, etc.?" I knew two20people from India

      casually, and I had already asked them a few cultural questions about

      India, so I thought that I would give it a try.



      On November 5, 2008, I was driving over to talk to the first person.

      I had 5x7 photo of Rebazar with me. As I was driving over, my

      intuition must have kicked into high gear because I had an

      interesting thought. As I thought about Rebazar's photo, it suddenly

      occurred to me "Rebazar actually looks more Pakistani than Indian."



      I arrived at my destination, and took Rebazar's photo in. I showed it

      to my acquaintance who is from Northern India. She is not a native

      Hindi speaker, but is fluent in Hindi. About Rebazar, she said "He

      looks Pakistani. He definitely doesn't look Tibetan. Also, he has

      a `strong face' which makes him look Muslim. I am fairly certain he

      is a Muslim. Also, men in India are either clean-shaven or they have

      a beard down to their belly button. Men in India can have a mustache,

      but they never have a trimmed beard like this man has."



      Interesting, isn't it? Interesting what you can find out when you

      talk to a real human being who grew up in Northern India instead of

      just believing the fairy tales that Eckankar dishes out.



      On November 15, 2008, I went over to see my second acquaintance from

      India. She is a native Hindi speaker. I showed her my large photo of
      =0
      A
      Rebazar Tarz. I asked:



      Does he look Indian? No.

      Does he look Pakistani? No.



      Then she told me "He looks Afghani to me." I then asked "Does he look

      Muslim?" She said "Yes." I then asked her whether he looks Tibetan.

      She said "No!"



      So if you want to know whether Rebazar Tarz looks Tibetan, all you

      need is a National Geographic and a few friends from India or

      Pakistan and you can figure it out yourself.



      One of the reasons I did this little "study" is because I wanted to

      prove that any ordinary person can prove that Eckankar's assertion

      that Rebazar is from Tibet has a lot of problems. David Lane looked

      through Paul Twitchell's earliest writings and proved that Rebazar

      was invented as a "replacement" for several other of Paul's teachers.

      But followers of Eckankar always say that "Lane has a grudge against

      Eckankar" or "Lane wanted to get rich and famous by attacking

      Eckankar."



      But I have pretty much have proven that Eckankar's assertion of a

      Tibetan monk who...



      1. Looks Pakistani or Afghani.

      2. Looks Muslim.

      3. Is supposedly from Tibet where people look Chinese and are devout

      Buddhists.



      ...is more than a little bit suspicious.



      Even I could think up a convoluted scenario to explain all of these

      contradictions, but my point is this. In the meeting I was in
      , I

      couldn't even get a rational response from the Eckists there. All

      they could do is attack me for daring to disagree with Eckankar's

      story line.



      Just a short post-note regarding Gopal Das.

      On November 6, 2008 I went back and spoke with the first lady, the

      non-native Hindi speaker. I showed her a group photo containing about

      12 Eck masters. She was looking at it when she suddenly

      exclaimed "Oh, Gopal is a Hindi nameā€¦ And, Das is a Hindi name." Also

      I would like to point out that she pronounced Gopal and Das like

      members of Eckankar do. So this makes Gopal Das even more ridiculous.

      Not only is he a tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed Eck master in Egypt in

      3,000 BC, but he has a Hindi name which is pronounced by Eckists the

      same way that this Hindi name is pronounced in India.



      On November 15, 2008, when I went over to see my second acquaintance

      from India who happens to be a native Hindi speaker, I asked her to

      look at some photos of the masters of Eckankar. I showed her a small

      color photo of Gopal Das. The first thing she did was state that

      Gopal Das is a Hindi name. I was almost embarrassed to do so, but I

      sheepishly pointed out that he didn't look Egyptian. She agreed.



      Also, I may be the first person to have discovered this. There was an

      historical figure in India named "Swami Gopal Das." Wikipedia=2
      0lists

      him as a social reformer rather than an actual Guru.



      Link to "Swami Gopal Das aat Wikipedia

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Gopal_Das



      It's very likely that this is where Paul Twitchell got the

      name "Gopal Das."



      So this is one of the things that really pushed me over the edge

      regarding my decision to leave Eckankar. I had to face up to the

      obvious and sometime ridiculous discrepancies in the Eckankar story

      line. I also had to face up to the fact that the members of Eckankar

      are really kooky. They are so caught up in their fantasy that they

      are living in their own make-believe world where completely

      ridiculous contradictions are simply overlooked.



      In closing, I am certain that people in Tibet know the difference

      between Chinese and Tibetans based only on their appearance. When I

      say that they look the same I am only speaking in general terms.



      Also, I have read the first two-thirds of "Confessions" and I believe

      Ford may have pointed out a lot of what I posted in this thread. The

      same is true for David Lane's postings on his website.



      Update:

      I just read through "Confessions." I found a brief discussion about

      Gopal Das on page 136. Ford was talking about how Paul Twitchell

      created Eck Masters:



      "Another example of this art of creation is the Eck Master Gopal Das.

      Gopal is
      another name for Krishna (God) Dasa means "slave"

      or "disciple." Gopal Das was Eckankar's purported Eck Master in

      ancient Egypt."



      Ford doesn't mention which Indian language he is using, but a Hindi

      translation website shows:



      gopaal

      1. a keeper of cows

      2. a milkman

      3. an epithet of Lord Krishna



      das

      1. ten

      2. 10



      daas

      1. a slave

      2. a servant

      3. helot

      4. servitor

      5. hanger-on

      6. bondman

      7. menial

      8. thrall

      9. valet

      10. vassal

      11. seneschal

      12. title of a Shoodra

      13. a Shoodra

      14. a fisherman

      15. a thief



      Since it would appear that the "aa" in gopaal would be pronounced the

      same as the "aa" in daas, I am assuming that the Hindi word "das"

      meaning "ten" is more likely the correct translation for the Hindi

      name Gopal Das.



      By the way, this Hindi translation website doesn't allow links to a

      specific search, but the general URL is:



      Hindi, Telugu, and Eglish translation website called "Word Anywhere"

      http://www.wordanywhere.com/cgi-bin/fetch.pl



      Lastly, I believe that either Ford or David mentioned that Rebazar

      perhaps looks Muslim. It would be nice to ask a few more people from

      that part of the world, especially Pakistanis and Afghanis.
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