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4268Re: Is Rebazar Tarz Tibetan, Indian, Pakistani or Afghani

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  • prometheus_973
    Jan 10, 2009
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      Hello Jonathan,
      I agree, Rebazar is Not "Tibetan," nor a "Lama,"
      as Twitch had claimed. The Dalai Lama, and
      other lamas, and Buddhist Monks, look Asian
      or part Asian, and Rebazar Does Not! You've
      made some very good points!

      I think that the ECKist you spoke to about
      Rebazar Not looking Tibetan got very defensive
      because she (unconsciously) had to protect herself
      from the Truth. If not, her imaginary world might
      have developed fractures in its foundation. And
      then what?! She isn't ready to explore any "what
      ifs," or to open herself up to any drastic changes
      toward higher levels of consciousness. ECKists
      can't think out of the box because that would
      entail a Freedom of Will and Thought versus blindly
      accepting and following myth and dogma.

      Perhaps, the fictional character, and Master, Rebazar
      Tarzs, actually represents the Potential of everyone's
      inner Self (Soul). Thus, the stories about Rebazar,
      along with the conversations (like in "Stranger By
      The River"), are merely fables.

      I'll have to repost Twitchell's descriptions of his
      ECK Masters, unless, I can find the post in the
      archives. The descriptions given in "Difficulties
      Of Becoming The Living ECK Master" are much
      different than what Klemp gives and are very
      different from the sketches that are offered for
      sale, as well as, the ones on display at The Temple
      of EK and at EK Centers.


      Jonathan Wrote:
      I quit Eckankar in December of 2008. A little while before this I was
      at the local Eck center and I decided to "test the waters" as far as
      people there being able to tolerate divergent opinions. I was in a
      group of people and I guess we were talking about Rebazar or
      something when I asked "If Rebazar is from Tibet then why doesn't he
      look Tibetan?" I then added "Tibetans look like Chinese. Rebazar
      looks like he is from India." But then one hard-liner Eckist snapped
      at me "Tibetans look like Indians!" I didn't say anything back
      because I knew it was futile. It would be like talking to a brick

      What I would have said to her had I wanted to continue our argument
      is "Did you ever look at the magazine "National Geographic? If you
      would do that, you would see that I am correct. Tibetans look like
      Chinese." For those of you reading this, you can prove my assertion
      that Tibetans look Chinese by going to Google.com and searching for
      images for "Tibetan man" or Tibetan woman." You'll see that they look

      But I decided to take this a little further and conduct my own little
      research project on this. I have had a lot of friends from foreign
      countries over the years. During that time I discovered that people
      in Asia and Southeast Asia can distinguish each other just by the way
      they look. For example, Japanese know what Koreans look like. Chinese
      know what Filipinos look like. Thais know what Burmese look like.
      This is determined just by the other person's appearance and it has
      nothing to do with the clothes they are wearing.

      So I postulated to myself "I wonder whether Indians can distinguish
      between Indians, Pakistanis, etc.?" I knew two people from India
      casually, and I had already asked them a few cultural questions about
      India, so I thought that I would give it a try.

      On November 5, 2008, I was driving over to talk to the first person.
      I had 5x7 photo of Rebazar with me. As I was driving over, my
      intuition must have kicked into high gear because I had an
      interesting thought. As I thought about Rebazar's photo, it suddenly
      occurred to me "Rebazar actually looks more Pakistani than Indian."

      I arrived at my destination, and took Rebazar's photo in. I showed it
      to my acquaintance who is from Northern India. She is not a native
      Hindi speaker, but is fluent in Hindi. About Rebazar, she said "He
      looks Pakistani. He definitely doesn't look Tibetan. Also, he has
      a `strong face' which makes him look Muslim. I am fairly certain he
      is a Muslim. Also, men in India are either clean-shaven or they have
      a beard down to their belly button. Men in India can have a mustache,
      but they never have a trimmed beard like this man has."

      Interesting, isn't it? Interesting what you can find out when you
      talk to a real human being who grew up in Northern India instead of
      just believing the fairy tales that Eckankar dishes out.

      On November 15, 2008, I went over to see my second acquaintance from
      India. She is a native Hindi speaker. I showed her my large photo of
      Rebazar Tarz. I asked:

      Does he look Indian? No.
      Does he look Pakistani? No.

      Then she told me "He looks Afghani to me." I then asked "Does he look
      Muslim?" She said "Yes." I then asked her whether he looks Tibetan.
      She said "No!"

      So if you want to know whether Rebazar Tarz looks Tibetan, all you
      need is a National Geographic and a few friends from India or
      Pakistan and you can figure it out yourself.

      One of the reasons I did this little "study" is because I wanted to
      prove that any ordinary person can prove that Eckankar's assertion
      that Rebazar is from Tibet has a lot of problems. David Lane looked
      through Paul Twitchell's earliest writings and proved that Rebazar
      was invented as a "replacement" for several other of Paul's teachers.
      But followers of Eckankar always say that "Lane has a grudge against
      Eckankar" or "Lane wanted to get rich and famous by attacking

      But I have pretty much have proven that Eckankar's assertion of a
      Tibetan monk who...

      1. Looks Pakistani or Afghani.
      2. Looks Muslim.
      3. Is supposedly from Tibet where people look Chinese and are devout

      ...is more than a little bit suspicious.

      Even I could think up a convoluted scenario to explain all of these
      contradictions, but my point is this. In the meeting I was in, I
      couldn't even get a rational response from the Eckists there. All
      they could do is attack me for daring to disagree with Eckankar's
      story line.

      Just a short post-note regarding Gopal Das.
      On November 6, 2008 I went back and spoke with the first lady, the
      non-native Hindi speaker. I showed her a group photo containing about
      12 Eck masters. She was looking at it when she suddenly
      exclaimed "Oh, Gopal is a Hindi nameĀ… And, Das is a Hindi name." Also
      I would like to point out that she pronounced Gopal and Das like
      members of Eckankar do. So this makes Gopal Das even more ridiculous.
      Not only is he a tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed Eck master in Egypt in
      3,000 BC, but he has a Hindi name which is pronounced by Eckists the
      same way that this Hindi name is pronounced in India.

      On November 15, 2008, when I went over to see my second acquaintance
      from India who happens to be a native Hindi speaker, I asked her to
      look at some photos of the masters of Eckankar. I showed her a small
      color photo of Gopal Das. The first thing she did was state that
      Gopal Das is a Hindi name. I was almost embarrassed to do so, but I
      sheepishly pointed out that he didn't look Egyptian. She agreed.

      Also, I may be the first person to have discovered this. There was an
      historical figure in India named "Swami Gopal Das." Wikipedia lists
      him as a social reformer rather than an actual Guru.

      Link to "Swami Gopal Das aat Wikipedia

      It's very likely that this is where Paul Twitchell got the
      name "Gopal Das."

      So this is one of the things that really pushed me over the edge
      regarding my decision to leave Eckankar. I had to face up to the
      obvious and sometime ridiculous discrepancies in the Eckankar story
      line. I also had to face up to the fact that the members of Eckankar
      are really kooky. They are so caught up in their fantasy that they
      are living in their own make-believe world where completely
      ridiculous contradictions are simply overlooked.

      In closing, I am certain that people in Tibet know the difference
      between Chinese and Tibetans based only on their appearance. When I
      say that they look the same I am only speaking in general terms.

      Also, I have read the first two-thirds of "Confessions" and I believe
      Ford may have pointed out a lot of what I posted in this thread. The
      same is true for David Lane's postings on his website.

      I just read through "Confessions." I found a brief discussion about
      Gopal Das on page 136. Ford was talking about how Paul Twitchell
      created Eck Masters:

      "Another example of this art of creation is the Eck Master Gopal Das.
      Gopal is another name for Krishna (God) Dasa means "slave"
      or "disciple." Gopal Das was Eckankar's purported Eck Master in
      ancient Egypt."

      Ford doesn't mention which Indian language he is using, but a Hindi
      translation website shows:

      1. a keeper of cows
      2. a milkman
      3. an epithet of Lord Krishna

      1. ten
      2. 10

      1. a slave
      2. a servant
      3. helot
      4. servitor
      5. hanger-on
      6. bondman
      7. menial
      8. thrall
      9. valet
      10. vassal
      11. seneschal
      12. title of a Shoodra
      13. a Shoodra
      14. a fisherman
      15. a thief

      Since it would appear that the "aa" in gopaal would be pronounced the
      same as the "aa" in daas, I am assuming that the Hindi word "das"
      meaning "ten" is more likely the correct translation for the Hindi
      name Gopal Das.

      By the way, this Hindi translation website doesn't allow links to a
      specific search, but the general URL is:

      Hindi, Telugu, and Eglish translation website called "Word Anywhere"

      Lastly, I believe that either Ford or David mentioned that Rebazar
      perhaps looks Muslim. It would be nice to ask a few more people from
      that part of the world, especially Pakistanis and Afghanis.
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