4268Re: Is Rebazar Tarz Tibetan, Indian, Pakistani or Afghani
- Jan 10, 2009Hello Jonathan,
I agree, Rebazar is Not "Tibetan," nor a "Lama,"
as Twitch had claimed. The Dalai Lama, and
other lamas, and Buddhist Monks, look Asian
or part Asian, and Rebazar Does Not! You've
made some very good points!
I think that the ECKist you spoke to about
Rebazar Not looking Tibetan got very defensive
because she (unconsciously) had to protect herself
from the Truth. If not, her imaginary world might
have developed fractures in its foundation. And
then what?! She isn't ready to explore any "what
ifs," or to open herself up to any drastic changes
toward higher levels of consciousness. ECKists
can't think out of the box because that would
entail a Freedom of Will and Thought versus blindly
accepting and following myth and dogma.
Perhaps, the fictional character, and Master, Rebazar
Tarzs, actually represents the Potential of everyone's
inner Self (Soul). Thus, the stories about Rebazar,
along with the conversations (like in "Stranger By
The River"), are merely fables.
I'll have to repost Twitchell's descriptions of his
ECK Masters, unless, I can find the post in the
archives. The descriptions given in "Difficulties
Of Becoming The Living ECK Master" are much
different than what Klemp gives and are very
different from the sketches that are offered for
sale, as well as, the ones on display at The Temple
of EK and at EK Centers.
I quit Eckankar in December of 2008. A little while before this I was
at the local Eck center and I decided to "test the waters" as far as
people there being able to tolerate divergent opinions. I was in a
group of people and I guess we were talking about Rebazar or
something when I asked "If Rebazar is from Tibet then why doesn't he
look Tibetan?" I then added "Tibetans look like Chinese. Rebazar
looks like he is from India." But then one hard-liner Eckist snapped
at me "Tibetans look like Indians!" I didn't say anything back
because I knew it was futile. It would be like talking to a brick
What I would have said to her had I wanted to continue our argument
is "Did you ever look at the magazine "National Geographic? If you
would do that, you would see that I am correct. Tibetans look like
Chinese." For those of you reading this, you can prove my assertion
that Tibetans look Chinese by going to Google.com and searching for
images for "Tibetan man" or Tibetan woman." You'll see that they look
But I decided to take this a little further and conduct my own little
research project on this. I have had a lot of friends from foreign
countries over the years. During that time I discovered that people
in Asia and Southeast Asia can distinguish each other just by the way
they look. For example, Japanese know what Koreans look like. Chinese
know what Filipinos look like. Thais know what Burmese look like.
This is determined just by the other person's appearance and it has
nothing to do with the clothes they are wearing.
So I postulated to myself "I wonder whether Indians can distinguish
between Indians, Pakistanis, etc.?" I knew two people from India
casually, and I had already asked them a few cultural questions about
India, so I thought that I would give it a try.
On November 5, 2008, I was driving over to talk to the first person.
I had 5x7 photo of Rebazar with me. As I was driving over, my
intuition must have kicked into high gear because I had an
interesting thought. As I thought about Rebazar's photo, it suddenly
occurred to me "Rebazar actually looks more Pakistani than Indian."
I arrived at my destination, and took Rebazar's photo in. I showed it
to my acquaintance who is from Northern India. She is not a native
Hindi speaker, but is fluent in Hindi. About Rebazar, she said "He
looks Pakistani. He definitely doesn't look Tibetan. Also, he has
a `strong face' which makes him look Muslim. I am fairly certain he
is a Muslim. Also, men in India are either clean-shaven or they have
a beard down to their belly button. Men in India can have a mustache,
but they never have a trimmed beard like this man has."
Interesting, isn't it? Interesting what you can find out when you
talk to a real human being who grew up in Northern India instead of
just believing the fairy tales that Eckankar dishes out.
On November 15, 2008, I went over to see my second acquaintance from
India. She is a native Hindi speaker. I showed her my large photo of
Rebazar Tarz. I asked:
Does he look Indian? No.
Does he look Pakistani? No.
Then she told me "He looks Afghani to me." I then asked "Does he look
Muslim?" She said "Yes." I then asked her whether he looks Tibetan.
She said "No!"
So if you want to know whether Rebazar Tarz looks Tibetan, all you
need is a National Geographic and a few friends from India or
Pakistan and you can figure it out yourself.
One of the reasons I did this little "study" is because I wanted to
prove that any ordinary person can prove that Eckankar's assertion
that Rebazar is from Tibet has a lot of problems. David Lane looked
through Paul Twitchell's earliest writings and proved that Rebazar
was invented as a "replacement" for several other of Paul's teachers.
But followers of Eckankar always say that "Lane has a grudge against
Eckankar" or "Lane wanted to get rich and famous by attacking
But I have pretty much have proven that Eckankar's assertion of a
Tibetan monk who...
1. Looks Pakistani or Afghani.
2. Looks Muslim.
3. Is supposedly from Tibet where people look Chinese and are devout
...is more than a little bit suspicious.
Even I could think up a convoluted scenario to explain all of these
contradictions, but my point is this. In the meeting I was in, I
couldn't even get a rational response from the Eckists there. All
they could do is attack me for daring to disagree with Eckankar's
Just a short post-note regarding Gopal Das.
On November 6, 2008 I went back and spoke with the first lady, the
non-native Hindi speaker. I showed her a group photo containing about
12 Eck masters. She was looking at it when she suddenly
exclaimed "Oh, Gopal is a Hindi name And, Das is a Hindi name." Also
I would like to point out that she pronounced Gopal and Das like
members of Eckankar do. So this makes Gopal Das even more ridiculous.
Not only is he a tall, blond-haired, blue-eyed Eck master in Egypt in
3,000 BC, but he has a Hindi name which is pronounced by Eckists the
same way that this Hindi name is pronounced in India.
On November 15, 2008, when I went over to see my second acquaintance
from India who happens to be a native Hindi speaker, I asked her to
look at some photos of the masters of Eckankar. I showed her a small
color photo of Gopal Das. The first thing she did was state that
Gopal Das is a Hindi name. I was almost embarrassed to do so, but I
sheepishly pointed out that he didn't look Egyptian. She agreed.
Also, I may be the first person to have discovered this. There was an
historical figure in India named "Swami Gopal Das." Wikipedia lists
him as a social reformer rather than an actual Guru.
Link to "Swami Gopal Das aat Wikipedia
It's very likely that this is where Paul Twitchell got the
name "Gopal Das."
So this is one of the things that really pushed me over the edge
regarding my decision to leave Eckankar. I had to face up to the
obvious and sometime ridiculous discrepancies in the Eckankar story
line. I also had to face up to the fact that the members of Eckankar
are really kooky. They are so caught up in their fantasy that they
are living in their own make-believe world where completely
ridiculous contradictions are simply overlooked.
In closing, I am certain that people in Tibet know the difference
between Chinese and Tibetans based only on their appearance. When I
say that they look the same I am only speaking in general terms.
Also, I have read the first two-thirds of "Confessions" and I believe
Ford may have pointed out a lot of what I posted in this thread. The
same is true for David Lane's postings on his website.
I just read through "Confessions." I found a brief discussion about
Gopal Das on page 136. Ford was talking about how Paul Twitchell
created Eck Masters:
"Another example of this art of creation is the Eck Master Gopal Das.
Gopal is another name for Krishna (God) Dasa means "slave"
or "disciple." Gopal Das was Eckankar's purported Eck Master in
Ford doesn't mention which Indian language he is using, but a Hindi
translation website shows:
1. a keeper of cows
2. a milkman
3. an epithet of Lord Krishna
1. a slave
2. a servant
12. title of a Shoodra
13. a Shoodra
14. a fisherman
15. a thief
Since it would appear that the "aa" in gopaal would be pronounced the
same as the "aa" in daas, I am assuming that the Hindi word "das"
meaning "ten" is more likely the correct translation for the Hindi
name Gopal Das.
By the way, this Hindi translation website doesn't allow links to a
specific search, but the general URL is:
Hindi, Telugu, and Eglish translation website called "Word Anywhere"
Lastly, I believe that either Ford or David mentioned that Rebazar
perhaps looks Muslim. It would be nice to ask a few more people from
that part of the world, especially Pakistanis and Afghanis.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>