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4187Re: Another Look At Klemp's EK LEXICON

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  • prometheus_973
    Dec 6, 2008
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      I wanted to do another side-by-side comparison
      to show the original source (The Path of the Masters)
      for both Twitchell's and Klemp's ECKankar dogma.

      I now want to compare the definitions for these
      "Amesh-spenta" Holy Immortals Rays or Ways.

      The Path (1939)---PT (1973&1986)-------------HK (1998)
      1) Asa-Vahista..............Asa-Vahista........Asha-Vahista
      2) Vohu-Mano...............Vohu-Mano............Vohu-Mano
      3) Khashathra-Vairya..Khashathra-Vairya......Khashathra-Vairya
      4) Spenta-Armaiti........Spenta-Armaiti...........*Armaiti
      5) Haurvatat..............*Haurvata...............Haurvatat
      6) Ameretatat..............Ameretatat.............*Ameretat
      7) *Ahura-Mazda........*Ameshspenta............*Amesha Spentas
      8) Sraosha.................*Srasosha....................Sraosha

      Definitions:
      [BTW- All sources mention that these are, also,
      "of the six Ways or Rays of light from the Divine"]

      The PATH of the Masters__PT's Dictionary____HK's Lexicon

      1) the Supreme Will,_____the Supreme Will,___the supreme will
      manifested in the_______manifested in the___manifested in the
      world.___________________world.______________world.

      2) meaning good mind,___the good mind,_______the good mind,
      divine wisdom, pure-____divine wisdom,_______Divine, Wisdom,
      mindedness.__________pure mindedness._____pure mindedness.

      3) all creative, all_______known as the_________known as the
      sustaining power._____Ameshspenta; the_______Amesha Spentas; the
      ____________________all-creative, all________all creative, all
      ____________________sustaining power.______sustaining power.

      4) perfect piety with_____Perfect piety with________immortal life,
      single minded devotion__single minded devotion;__freedom from death
      ___________________one of the Holy Immortals__or dissolution

      5) absolute wholeness,__absolute, wholeness,_____absolute, wholeness,
      perfection, spirituality.__perfection, spirituality.___perfection, and
      ______________________________________SPIRITUALITY

      6) immortal life,_________immortal life,______________immortal life,
      freedom from death_____freedom from death______freedom from death
      or dissolution.__________or dissolution._____________or dissolution.

      7) the seven-fold________that the Supreme________that the Supreme
      Lord________________SUGMAD has to make___SUGMAD has to make
      ____________________ITSELF known to man.____Itself known to man.

      8) this is the Shabd_____the ECK, that which____another name for the
      Dhun of Santon ki______can be heard, the_____ECK, that which can be
      Shikaha... this Ray of___audible life stream.____heard, the Audible Life Stream
      the Divine One is
      something that can
      be heard... it is the
      Audible Life Stream
      of the Saints.

      BTW- Remember that the first three definitions are
      masculine traits (1-3) and the next three (4-6) are
      feminine traits.

      NOTE: What's really interesting is that Anthony
      Moore compiled this information while Joan
      Klemp and Mary Caroll Moore edited it!

      Plus, it was Harry's (the Mahanta's) responsibility
      to review this info and sign off on it!!! And, this
      EK Lexicon was printed only 10 years ago in 1998!

      Prometheus
      p.s. FYI- I had to edit the above columns two
      times so those getting emails will have duplicates.


      Prometheus wrote:
      I was looking at the definition of Margs
      (and the different ones) in the EK Lexicon.
      It's strange that a "marg" is defined as "a
      path to God" and yet it is found within a
      religion that is supposed to be it's own
      path to God!

      The Path of the Masters lists these
      margs in Ch.2 Section 10:

      Gian-Marg
      Dharma-Marg
      Surat Shabd Marg
      Bhakti-Marg

      Klemp lists these under marg (pg.135):

      Arahata Marg
      Bhakti Marg
      ECK Marg
      Giani Marg
      Karma Marg
      Prapatti Marg
      Vahana Marg

      However, on page 22 of the EK Lexicon
      Klemp mentions the:

      Bihangham Marg.

      And, in The Holy Fire of ECK vol. 1 pgs.
      22-23 Klemp mentions the:

      Contemplative Marg/Order

      So, if these are all individual "paths to God"
      why do chelas need ECKankar or Radhasoami
      or Ruhani Satsang?

      Prometheus




      Prometheus wrote:
      Isn't it interesting that when the
      narcissistic Klemp "Slowed Down"
      the ECK Initiations (20 years ago?)
      that he, also, created more steps
      and hoops to jump through. HK
      refuses to share power, or his "brand"
      of spirituality.

      With Twitchell (and even Gross) there
      was SELF and GOD REALIZATION which
      was promised in THIS LIFETIME! What
      happened to the promise... Klemp!

      With Klemp was added SPIRITUAL
      REALIZATION between the other two!
      This term is not found in PT's ECKankar
      Dictionary or in the his Shariyats. It was
      created by Klemp after he slowed-down
      the initiations.

      "SPIRITUAL REALIZATION. A level of
      realization which come after SELF-Realization
      and before GOD-Realization. Includes
      mainly the initiations of the SIXTH and
      SEVENTH Circles." [pg. 198]

      However, this too is a Bait and Switch!
      Klemp is giving ECKists the impression
      that at the 8th Initiation (which few can
      achieve) one will experience God-Realization.
      BUT, in the Klemp's own words, only an
      ECK Master (a 12th Initiate) is God-Realized!
      Catch-22 again! Thus, 8ths, 9ths, 10ths,
      and 11ths are in a Limbo and are between
      Spiritual and God-Realization. Of course,
      one can always IMAGINE they are Higher
      in Consciousness (on the Inner). This is
      what works best for most ECKists.

      Another Klemp created term that is connected
      to the Slow-Down of Initiations and to the fund
      raising effort is "Co-worker with the Mahanta."

      Again, both Twitchell and Gross used only
      one term: "CO-WORKER WITH GOD."

      The FIRST definition is from PT's 1986 printing
      of the ECKANKAR DICTIONARY and the SECOND
      definition is from HK's 1998 ECK LEXICON.

      "CO-WORKER WITH GOD One who takes his
      place in the guardianship of the beings and
      entities throughout the worlds of God; voluntarily
      gives great love and compassion to the worlds."
      [pg.23]

      "Co-worker with God. One who takes his
      place in the guardianship of the beings and
      entities throughout the worlds of God; voluntarily
      gives great love and compassion to the worlds,
      an ECK MASTER." [pg.37]

      Notice the difference? Klemp added "an
      ECK Master" to the definition of "Co-worker
      with God!" Now, at what initiation does one
      become an ECK Master? It's the 12th! And,
      there has to be an Outer Third and Final Stage
      to give confirmation to any Initiation of a Living
      Person!

      So, how many ECKists can now achieve God-
      Realization with Klemp in charge? So far it's
      only the narcissist in charge, Klemp, that has
      the qualifications of God-Realization.

      Okay, let's look at Klemp's other new definition
      of CO-WORKER WITH THE MAHANTA.

      "Co-worker with the Mahanta. One who is
      IN TRAINING for ECK Mastership. To GIVE of
      oneself to BRING the MESSAGE of ECK to others,
      is ACTING as a Co-worker with the Mahanta."
      [Lexicon pg.37 (my caps)]

      It's interesting to scrutinize Klemp's choice
      of words in the above definition. I see it as
      time-delay ploy due to his need for more
      missionary/salespeople and to stress more
      use of the imagination via "Acting" as if this
      or that is true or possible.

      Remember, Twitchell promised ECKists
      Spiritual Freedom and GOD-REALIZATION
      IN THIS LIFETIME! What has Klemp done with
      that promise? HK's "changed" it and took
      it away! One has to be an ECK Master (12th)!

      For me it's now clear that Klemp is playing
      the childish game of "King of the Mountain"
      and he's not permitting anyone to get close
      enough to pull him down or knock him off his
      hill.

      Prometheus

      ********************************************
      The Holy Immortals - Rays or Ways

      Prometheus wrote:
      I thought I'd make some comparisons
      for everyone who didn't see this the
      first time around. Here are the three
      sources.

      The Path of the Masters
      PT's EK Dictionary
      HK's EK Lexicon

      This article is to show where Twitchell
      got his information, as well as, with how
      and when Klemp began to revise it. It's
      interesting that Klemp didn't understand
      Twitchell's modus operandi and, therefore,
      not only made spelling corrections to PT's
      info, but other revisions and even omissions!

      The following is from "The Path of the Masters"
      copyright 1939, eleventh edition 1977, 5. The
      Zoroastrian Faith, pages 50-51.

      FYI-This covers information found in both
      PT's ECKankar Dictionary and HK's ECKankar
      Lexicon concerning The HOLY IMMORTALS
      (RAYS or WAYS of light). These Beings are Not
      to be confused with the Nine Silent Ones, or
      with the Astral Rays]

      PATH: "According to Zarathustra, there are
      six different WAYS the Supreme One has to
      make himself known to men. They are called
      also RAYS of light from the Supreme. They are
      spoken of at times AS IF they were personalities
      --- 'Amesh-spenta' --- HOLY IMMORTALS."

      NOTE: The first Three represent the Male
      Principle; the next Three represent the Female
      Principle, of the Divine.

      "They are:
      1) Asa-Vahista, the Supreme Will, manifested
      in the world.

      2) Vohu-Mano, meaning good mind, divine wisdom,
      pure-mindedness.

      3) Khashathra-Vairya, all creative, all sustaining
      power.

      4) Spenta-Armaiti, perfect piety with single minded
      devotion.

      5) Haurvatat, absolute wholeness, perfection,
      spirituality.

      6) Ameretatat, immortal life, freedom from death or
      dissolution.

      *7) Ahura-Mazda, the seven-fold Lord.

      *8) Sraosha, this Ray of the Divine One is something
      that can be heard... this is the Shabd Dhun of Santon
      ki Shikaha... it is the AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM of the Saints.

      These [first] six represent both the maternal and paternal
      qualities of God, the first three the fatherly and the last
      [next] three the motherly nature of the Surpreme. If we
      add to these six the great central figure of Ahura-Mazda,
      we have the SEVEN-fold Lord, as taught by the prophet
      Zarathustra... In addition to the above mentioned SEVEN
      RAYS of the divine One, he mentions another [8th] RAY
      or POWER which he calls Shraosha or SRAOSHA."

      ******************************************************

      Next, we look at Twitchell's ECKankar Dictionary,
      copyright 1973, *Sixth Printing 1986 (HK oversaw this).

      [NOTE: These "Rays or Ways" and "Holy Immortals"
      are not to be confused with the Astral Rays (pg. 10)]

      1) "ASA-VAHISTA, One of the six *RAYS of light
      from the Divine; the Supreme Will, manifested in
      the world.

      2) VOHU-MANO, One of the six *RAYS of light
      from the Divine; the good mind, divine wisdom,
      pure mindedness.

      3) KHASHATHRA-VAIRYA, One of the six *WAYS
      the Supreme SUGMAD has to make ITSELF known
      to man; one of the six RAYS of light from the
      Divine known as the Ameshspenta; the all-creative,
      all sustaining power.

      4) SPENTA-ARMAITI, Perfect piety with single
      minded devotion; one of the HOLY IMMORTALS.

      5) HAURVATA, The *FIFTH RAY of light or *WAY
      that the Supreme SUGMAD has to make ITSELF
      known to man; absolute, wholeness, perfection,
      and spirituality.

      6) AMERETATAT, One of the six RAYS of light
      from the Divine; immortal life, freedom from
      death or dissolution.

      *7) AMESHSPENTA, Means; HOLY IMMORTALS;
      the six WAYS, or RAYS of light from the Divine,
      that the Supreme SUGMAD has to make ITSELF
      known to man.

      8) SRASOSHA, The *EIGHTH RAY or WAY the
      Supreme SUGMAD has of making ITSELF known
      to man; the ECK, that which can be heard, the
      audible life stream."

      NOTE: See where Twitchell mentions the *Fifth and
      *Eight Rays or Ways in their descriptions. Also, in
      The Path of the Masters *"Amesh-spenta" --- Holy
      Immortals is mentioned in referring to ALL of the
      Rays or Ways, but P.T. alters the spelling and uses
      this term as the 7th Ray or Way and as a substitution
      for AHURA-MAZDA!

      BTW- It's interesting that Twitchell doesn't mention
      Ahura-Mazda in his ECKankar Dictionary, but Klemp
      does mention it in his EK Lexicon on page 5.

      "Ahura Mazda. A name used in ancient Persia for
      the state of Godhood; Zoroaster's name for God."

      Here's more from Klemp's EK Lexicon:

      "Zarathustra. See Zoroaster" (pg.241)

      "Zoroaster. The Persian Avatar who taught Soul
      Travel almost six hundred years before the coming
      of Christ and his followers." (pg.243)

      Now let's see what Twitchell said:

      "ZARATHUSTRA, The Persian Sage who was one
      of the MASTERS of the ANCIENT ORDER of the
      VAIRAGI lived hundreds of years B.C." (pg.159)

      WOW! ANOTHER ECK MASTER!!! But Wait!

      "ZOROASTER, The Persian Avatar who taught
      Soul Travel some few hundred years before the
      coming of Christ, and his followers."

      I guess that Twitchell didn't realize they were one
      and the same. Still, P.T. was the Mahanta wasn't
      he? But, is Klemp really the Mahanta?

      Okay, let's now compare Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon
      to the approved 1986 printing of Twitchell's ECKankar
      Dictionary and to the info in the 1939 copyright of
      Julian P. Johnson's "The Path of the Masters."

      BTW- In what year did Klemp become the "FULL"
      Mahanta?

      ************************************************

      Klemp's 1998 "The ECKankar LexiCON:"

      1) "Asha-Vahista. The FIRST of six RAYS of
      light from the Divine; the supreme will manifested
      in the world." (pg.12)

      2) "Vohu-Mano. The SECOND of the six RAYS
      of light from the Divine; the good mind, Divine,
      Wisdom, pure mindedness." (pg.225)

      3) "Khashathra-Vairya. The THIRD of the six
      WAYS the supreme SUGMAD has to make
      Itself known to man; one of the six RAYS
      of light from the Divine known as the Amesha
      Spentas; the all creative, all sustaining power."
      (pg.114)

      4) "Armaiti. The FOURTH of the six RAYS of
      light from the Divine; immortal life, freedom
      from death or dissolution." (pg.11)

      5) "Haurvatat. The FIFTH of six RAYS of light
      or WAYS that the SUGMAD has to make
      Itself known to man; absolute, wholeness,
      perfection, and SPIRITUALITY." (pgs.86-87)

      6) "Ameretat. The SIXTH of the six RAYS of
      light from the Divine; immortal life, freedom
      from death or dissolution." (pg.8)

      *NOTE: Klemp changed the spelling from
      Ameretatat to Ameretat. from both sources.
      Also, Klemp repeats the definition for the
      FOURTH and SIXTH RAYS!

      *7) "Amesha Spentas. Holy immortals; the
      six WAYS, or RAYS of light, from the Divine,
      that the Supreme SUGMAD has to make
      Itself known to man." (pg.8)

      *8) "Sraosha. In the Far Country, another
      name for the ECK, that which can be heard,
      the Audible Life Stream." (pg.200)

      It's interesting how speed reading reduced
      Twitchell's comprehension since he missed
      the 7th and 8th additions to the Six Rays or
      Ways. Klemp, of course, copied the info and
      decided to do his own alterations.

      This is just more proof of ECKankar's fraud!

      Here's a side-by-side comparison of the
      spellings of the *AMESH-SPENTA -- HOLY
      IMMORTALS the Six (plus Two) RAYS and WAYS :

      The Path (1939)---PT (1973&1986)-------HK (1998)
      Asa-Vahista..............Asa-Vahista..............Asha-Vahista
      Vohu-Mano...............Vohu-Mano................Vohu-Mano
      Khashathra-Vairya..Khashathra-Vairya...Khashathra-Vairya
      Spenta-Armaiti.........Spenta-Armaiti.............*Armaiti
      Haurvatat....................*Haurvata...................Haurvatat
      Ameretatat.................Ameretatat..................*Ameretat
      *Ahura-Mazda.........*Ameshspenta...........*Amesha Spentas
      Sraosha.......................*Srasosha.....................Sraosha

      Notice that Klemp's rewrite matches "The Path
      of the Masters" version more than Twitchell's,
      but goes against the other two on "Ameretat!"

      ECKists should reread PT's EK Dictonary
      and HK's EK Lexicon and compare the two!

      Prometheus
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